Going to attempt to learn Japanese.

[WF72]

Anyone know a good way to learn it without buying Rosetta Stone?
Thankssssss

[manuel]

Universities usually have the best classes.
If that's not possible, try to at least get into a class taught by a real person (a Japanese person would be ideal of course). Self-teaching/learning doesn't work so well in most cases.
Good luck! 

[P]

I agree, I couldn't do it anyway. But I know some people that has been successful in self-studies too. Also university speed might be very fast so learning some basics yourself before taking classes may help too (it did for me, and I even was lucky enough to get to participate in the exchange study program my university had thanks to that).

Either way it takes a lot of hard work from you.
Read my mini guide to studying the language, should be helpful whether you take classes or not:
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=10300.msg143570#msg143570

There are also lots of internet forums dedicated for Japanese studies. Maybe joining one of those is a good idea. In fact I've been thinking of doing that myself to brush up on my Japanese.

[fcgamer]

I recommend self study over university classes, though I don't recommend Rosetta Stone.  When I decide to learn Japanese, it will be by a self-study method. 

The problem with university courses is that the pace is set by the class as a whole, so if there are a lot of incompetent learners, the pace will be really slow, whereas with self study, you can learn and study at a much faster rate.  A lot of people will disagree on this, but this is coming from my years of learning and also watching others learn languages.
Post Merge: December 09, 2015, 06:47:10 am
When reaching an intermediate level, then it is good to hire a private tutor or hang out with others that speak that language to get to an advanced level.

[P]

Swedish universities follows a tight schedule regardless of the level of the class. There are always a lot of people that thinks it's way too fast, another bunch of people that are able to barely keep up, and also few geniuses that thinks it's too slow. If you are one of these geniuses, self-study shouldn't be any problem. I could keep up ok the first term thanks to my self-studies but after that the speed shot up through the roof!

Yeah I recommend hanging out with Japanese people after you have reached that level. I hang out with my Japanese friends almost everyday nowadays and it really helps.

[manuel]

The problem with university courses is that the pace is set by the class as a whole, so if there are a lot of incompetent learners, the pace will be really slow

It probably depends on the university, but it was quite the opposite at the 2 universities I studied.
The teachers have a curriculum and they always press on. If you can't keep up, tough luck.
Of course, that can be taken as a negative point, but the pace should definitely not the problem with a university course.

The big problem with self learning is that you can't check if you're right. A teacher can always say "hey, you're saying it wrong", but if you learn solely by yourself you risk forming bad habits/learning wrong things, and once you've learned it, it's hard to change it.

And of course talking with Japanese friends if you have the possibility is one of the best ways to learn.

[P]

Exactly my experience too. Only a few smart ones and those that had studied Japanese before thought it was too slow.

For self-studies I suggest to use the internet. Join a forum dedicated to Japanese studies and ask questions there. People that have studied Japanese a long time, are often aware of the most common bad habits and stuff and might spot them.
Writing papers that are a good way to practice Japanese though and it may be hard to do without a real teacher that can correct it for you.

Speaking with Japanese people is great, but of course you must have studied to a certain level before you can even start having a real conversation.

[NintendoKing]

First study all the hiragana, and then I recommend buying a college level Japanese Language book.

[joestar3]

I agree, I couldn't do it anyway. But I know some people that has been successful in self-studies too. Also university speed might be very fast so learning some basics yourself before taking classes may help too (it did for me, and I even was lucky enough to get to participate in the exchange study program my university had thanks to that).

Either way it takes a lot of hard work from you.
Read my mini guide to studying the language, should be helpful whether you take classes or not:
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=10300.msg143570#msg143570

There are also lots of internet forums dedicated for Japanese studies. Maybe joining one of those is a good idea. In fact I've been thinking of doing that myself to brush up on my Japanese.

I'm trying to get back into studying Japanese myself - those are all excellent tips, I would highly recommend that order of learning.

Here's a site with a lot of links to resources (many of them free) and hints http://bitlasers.com/djt

Of the different links, I definitely recommend the Anki card stuff for learning vocab, it's been helping a ton.  I need to go through the Tae Kim guide to grammar more and finish that, also.

Another thing that has been helping me is using apps on my phone to study while in line, or in the car.  That's another good thing about Anki - you can sync your flash card deck between your pc at home/work and your phone.  Other good apps are Stickystudy (kana/kanji), and Human Japanese (which has really concise, easy to read/remember explanations of grammar and terms).

I need to listen to more podcasts, but a good beginner one is NHK's Easy Japanese - it's silly and goofy but also is great at presenting the material.

Good luck!!!

[zmaster18]

I recently just mastered Katakana I'm also currently making a katakana learning program in Famicom BASIC V3 right now, which helped me memorize them and read them fast. If things go well, this game should be done in a few weeks and will be available for anyone to play.

I only know a few hiragana and that is my next step with learning more Japanese. I also got the book Remembering the Kanji for christmas and have read a bit of that so far.

[manuel]

Good rack. 

[P]

I recently just mastered Katakana I'm also currently making a katakana learning program in Famicom BASIC V3 right now, which helped me memorize them and read them fast. If things go well, this game should be done in a few weeks and will be available for anyone to play.

I only know a few hiragana and that is my next step with learning more Japanese. I also got the book Remembering the Kanji for christmas and have read a bit of that so far.

Heh learning katakana first. I thought katakana was harder than hiragana since katakana are so sharp and sterile, while hiragana are more characteristic and therefore easier to associate with the sounds IMO. I think the same could be said about kun-readings and on-readings of kanji. Kun-readings are more characteristic and easier to remember for me, while on-readings all sound the same, but not everyone agrees with me here.

Anyway back to kana, I learned hiragana in a week, but katakana took a bit longer. Learning to read it as fast as you read roman letters may take years though. I'm very fast with kana but I think I'm still a bit faster with roman letters. Especially the automatic reading that kicks off when reading roman letters, isn't as effective in Japanese (I should really just read more Japanese).

Looking forward to see that katakana memo game (too bad there's no way to type hiragana in Family BASIC).

[zmaster18]

I think learning katakana first is normal! First of all, you can use katakana to read English words right away. No need to learn any new kind of vocab. I also find it easier to remember the katakana because they are straight and sharp, like the roman alphabet. Hiragana is intimidating to me because it looks like a bunch of squiggles

I also wish there was hiragana in BASIC! Then I would make another program just for that

[P]

Yeah I heard that argument many times. While some people like me thought katakana was HARDER because they are sharp, some other people think they are EASIER because they are sharp. I guess katakana is more useful until you learn more Japanese though, and yeah you need to learn both anyway so the order you learn them in doesn't matter much. Roman alphabet have both sharp and round features I think.

The reason hiragana looks like they do is because they are italicized (as is common in calligraphy) versions of kanji derived characters. Katakana are just parts taken from kanji and used as is (since kanji in their basic non-italicized form is generally straight and sharp).


I think the reason why early games use katakana is simply because they are easier to draw in low resolution. But later games, such as Dragon Quest, shows that hiragana may be displayed in an 8x8 font without problems. Since Family BASIC uses CHR-ROM though it only have space for 8 kB constant CHR data so hiragana would take way too much precious space (katakana almost take up a third of that space already).

[UglyJoe]

Since Family BASIC uses CHR-ROM though it only have space for 8 kB constant CHR data so hiragana would take way too much precious space (katakana almost take up a third of that space already).

This would be my guess as to why they don't include both.  It was also common in older Japanese computers to only support katakana, due to technological constraints (see standards such as JIS X 0201).  I don't know why they would have picked katakana over hiragana in general, but Family BASIC was probably just keeping in step with the norm.