PC-Engine recommendations/advice

[P]

Not a snowball's chance in hell it is (I'd almost say it's mainly a CD system, but I can't ignore the many great HuCard titles). Sure there are a number of ports that plays the same as they do for other systems except with some added voice acting and CD audio, but since the CD library is so big, there are lots of all kinds of games for it: Great ports and crappy ports, great exclusives and crappy exclusives. It's nothing like the Sega Mega Drive CD that's full of crappy FMV-driven games (remember the PC Engine was a big hit in Japan, only outsold by the Famicom during that era).

That said, if you are really unsure about the system it might be easier to just get a cheap CoreGrafx (I or II doesn't matter) and start focusing on HuCards. Without CD you need a backup device (Ten no Koe 2 or Backup Booster) to be able to save though, as HuCards normally don't have battery backup (many HuCard games offers passwords as an alternative to saving though).

[Retrospectives]

From a Japanese perspective and if we talk about the times that console being sold, pretty much 70% of everyone at least I knew, did not have the CD attachment probably due to the fact that initially was just an attachment, just like the FDS.

Can't really compare it to nowadays since the retro scene is so exploited and people has a ton much of knowledge about which title were released or not, but the main feature and actually one of the niches were indeed the actual credit-card sized games themselves. 

[P]

I don't agree with that. Still there are are more CD games than HuCards. And that's something for an add-on (I guess it's partly because CDs are so much cheaper to mass produce), and there's no lack of quality exclusives either (just browse the PC Engine Bible http://www.pcengine.co.uk/).

Getting an add-on like FDS or a CD-ROM device should be kind of compared to getting another console but a bit cheaper. For PC Engine it's a great upgrade, much better than FDS for Famicom or CD for Mega Drive anyway.

[Retrospectives]

Sure. I didn't say it was a bad thing to get the CD add on. Just telling you how the gaming scene in Japan was back then. An attachment is an attachment no matter how good or bad it was (high vs low sales/releases) I could never say that it mainly was a CD system because simply...it was not.

Anyway, indeed, a bunch of good CD games were produced and sold for the PCE, but that doesn't really makes it "Mainly" a CD based system.  The main use for the average consumer was to play the Cards and if I remember correctly, the price of a CD unit (both add on and later duo models) were like ridiculously expensive.

If someone wanted starting getting into PCE collecting or just playing around with the system I would clearly suggest a Core Grafx, a Flashcart etc. Many of the CD games were also RPG and strategy = A lot of Japanese text. Anyway, it's a great machine, with or without the CD 

[P]

Giving how large the CD library is and how many kinds of variants of CD systems it has, it doesn't sound to me that it was as unpopular as you make it sound.

I always understood it that HuCards was the main thing during the 8-bit era, and then the CD extended it to still being able to compete during the 16-bit era (well for a while at least).

PC Engine has many RPGs and other Japanese text heavy games indeed (these where popular genres after all). But there is a lot of everything I think. No CD simply means you are missing out of some of the best games like Akumajou Dracula X.

[Retrospectives]

Unpopular? The CD based DUO systems were not unpopular at all. I just say that I do not know many people that got the attachment who already owned the original that did not play the CDs. In fact, the CD attachment was one of the main reasons why the lifespan of the PCE could survive that long, even though competitors released new systems.

But that's certainly different from recommending a curious newcomer to the system since the DUO systems are maybe around 3 times the price of a non-cd model and one of the nowadays niches for even owning a PCE except for the games would probably be due to the novelty factor of the cards and the minimal form factor.

Another thing is of course the aspect that the original SONY based disc drive was very fragile and therefore it would require a more expensive modification to fix that issue and for someone just want to explore some of the library (there was a LOT of good Hu Card games released) then the price tag doesn't really motivates the product if you are not a diehard fan and must use the original hardware (which is also a price factor since if you have to play the original system but using Everdrive and/or burned CDs, then it is more or less not 100% genuine anyway) then you would probably have to spend X-times the money that you gave for the system to even play the games.

Taken that into aspect, and the fact that he said that he wasn't really into SHMUPS, then what we are left with are the text-heavy games in Japanese, some exclusive puzzle, platform and fighting games, whereas the Akumajou Dracula X was already released on the PSP, PSN and the Virtual Console.

In other words. I think a Core Grafx and an Everdrive is very well enough to start with and if he wants to dig deeper later on, then it sure might be worth the money, but for a starter, no.

[P]

So that's why I recommended him a Duo R/RX to save him all that money and headache. It's the cheapest, simplest and most versatile solution to get CD-ROM², perfect for a newbie.

If you are just going to play the games on Virtual Console instead I don't see the point of collecting old video games.

[Retrospectives]

If you are just going to play the games on Virtual Console instead I don't see the point of collecting old video games.

So that's why you are recommending him to burn CD-R discs and using Everdrives? Not really collecting in my opinion, although I totally understand people who want to play on original hardware (myself included). I just don't see the reason of throwing out three times the amount of money since it's really a jungle when it comes to DUO systems (including R/RX). A lot of them have faulty lasers, leaking capacitors which potentially might destroy the system and a whole lot of other nasty things that certainly isn't "newbie friendly". That's why I would suggest getting a Core Grafx and if he is really getting the taste for PCE then he would probably both get a DUO system including a lot of games on a later stage...if we are talking about "collecting old video games".

[P]

No the Duo R/RX are the only CDs that doesn't yet have problems with capacitors and cogs, which why it's newbie friendly (well friendly for everyone, not only newbies). If you get a CoreGrafx and upgrade to CD from there, you'll have to make sure to get a CD add-on with replaced caps and so on which usually means more money.

Plus R/RX reads CD-R so you can run arbitrary CD images on your machine.
Homebrew, hacks and translations are also factors why you would want CD-R capability. Although I personally don't care about translations since I just play the games in Japanese. Several RPGs and Dracula X has translations though.
For expensive games like Dracula X, I just burn it and download the manuals scans. Once you close the lid there's no difference, it's the same code (as long as it was a proper CD image) running on your genuine hardware.

The same goes for the Everdrive (run arbitrary HuCard images which includes hacks, translations, homebrew etc).

People's preferences may or may not be similar to mine, but I think I made it clear why I give the recommendations I do, and it's from experience.

[Retrospectives]

I also wouldn't recommend anyone to "upgrade" their Core Grafx due to the issues you mentioned but to say that the R/RX is doesn't yet have problems with caps are not true at all. Indeed, amongst all the CD based systems they are less prone to capacitor leakage, but a lot of people here in Japan are re-capping their R/RX machines, for a good reason.

I have no idea about any translations, but the percentage of people that uses their flash devices mainly for hacks and translations vs people who use it for more than that clearly speaks for itself. It would be naive to think something else. Especially here on FW. But just as much as an ED might complement a nice collection, an emulator might complement the convenience of playing on the go, which was why I cited "I don't see the point of collecting old video games".

Anyway, no reason to argue for the purpose of arguing. Hope that Chowder will be pleased with whichever system he choses. PCE is really a great machine. 

[L___E___T]

 
 
 
 
Chowder I know someone that it is a bit of a PCE whizz here in London, let me know if you want his help / advice.  He also said someone is working on a CD drive emulation device - which be amazing if so.

[P]

Are you sure the R/RX have started getting problems? From what I've heard in the PC Engine communities, the CD add-ons started going bad a few years ago, and now about all of them are bad unless they have been recapped, but Duo R/RX are generally still fine (nothing happened to mine either).

Capacitors will eventually go bad since it's quite an old system but I doubt it will go bad on R/RX before the much earlier released white PC Engine, CoreGrafx etc. Or maybe the CD unit strains the caps more or something, which is why generally only CD add-ons have problems with it? R/RX are very solidly built overall, and supposedly uses higher quality capacitors though (but also it's not as old which could also be an important factor).

Well I just basically revealed that I'm pirating games myself. My point is that the possibility to run arbitrary code on my system is a big selling point for me, and homebrews and hacks is a big part of that. I like to be able to run my own home-made programs.

I'm not interested in arguing at all, but since there are conflicting info here from what I'm aware of, I'm willing to investigate it further.

[Retrospectives]

Simply the first CD units were based off an old portable SONY CD Player (Sony D-50 I think. I do not remember exactly), and in Japan it is a well known fact that among hardware engineers that Sony (at the time being) were very fond of using particular bad SMD capacitors which would eventually leak during time, and destroying the whole system. (Not only Sony but Sony in particular).

That has nothing to do with "strains" on the CD system itself. Nor does it have any connection to wether the machine was released 4-5 later or earlier than another or whatever machine it might be. It is just a question of that Sony, or any other company that produced hardware back in the 80s and 90s probably didn't account that people still would be using their hardware 20-30 years later I suppose.

The newer R/RX models were re-designed (not only externally but internally as well) and does not uses these bad caps. But just like any other optical media, like for example the PS1, the hardware will be much more prone to malfunctioning than with for example PCB based media, and while I am not an expert of the R/RX models by any means, I know that a lot of people in Japan have been starting to re-capping their R/RX machines due to bad capacitors, but that doesn't mean that they are totally faulty/broken....yet. So all in all, even though the Core Grafx machine might be older, it will most probably survive longer than a DUO R/RX, simply because it doesn't uses any optical media.

Anyway, I would recommend you to re-cap your unit asap just for precautions sake.

[P]

So it's a precautious recap they are doing. And it sounds like optical media do indeed runs the caps out faster? Or are you talking about the laser and such things when you say hardware failure? I heard the laser can get stuck when reading low quality CD-R or so. Especially it's good to use 600 MB CD-Rs instead of the newer 700 MB, since the 700 MB disks have much thinner tracks which old CD lasers may have trouble reading, and when it can't read it may move out more and more and eventually get dislocated and stuck.

[L___E___T]

 



I have also heard R and RX are common to have problems...