Why do we accept one hit kills?

Started by Protoman, March 08, 2016, 01:43:26 am

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chowder

Quote from: Protoman on March 11, 2016, 12:38:33 pm
Not every lifebar has to be like the one in Megaman, it could be one that allows 2 or 3 hits.


So you do want games to be easier? :P

This is pointless, games were designed the way they were.  As has been pointed out (multiple times), changing this would alter the gameplay so drastically as to render it unplayable/ridiculously easy.  If you don't like one hit death games, or just suck at them, don't play them.  Easy solution :)

UglyJoe

Quote from: chowder on March 11, 2016, 02:17:28 pm
If you don't like one hit death games, or just suck at them, don't play them.  Easy solution :)


Or Game Genie ;D

Jedi Master Baiter

Quote from: chowder on March 11, 2016, 02:17:28 pm
This is pointless, games were designed the way they were.  As has been pointed out (multiple times), changing this would alter the gameplay so drastically as to render it unplayable/ridiculously easy.

I don't think adding a lifebar to Transformers no Nazo would make it too easy. Let's see a show of hands, how many of us here have completed that?

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By the way, my hand is down.

Quote from: chowder on March 11, 2016, 02:17:28 pm
If you don't like one hit death games, or just suck at them, don't play them.  Easy solution :)

Easy to say. How do you know you're getting into one? Perhaps I'm just a Dirty Pair fan, and I want to play the only known game in existence for the FDS. How am I supposed to know it's a one hit death trip? And that I'm going to suck at it? ::)

Nightstar699

March 15, 2016, 09:48:04 am #18 Last Edit: March 15, 2016, 12:01:24 pm by Nightstar699
Fun thread!

Quote from: P on March 11, 2016, 01:06:40 am
Ninja Gaiden has a very good balanced damage system. It's enough to withstand a few good hits in situations where your footings are good, but it sinks fast enough for you to feel pressured not to get hit as much as possible. Sometimes you are just pushed around from all directions and die almost instantly. It would be a nightmare to play with one-hit-kills though.


Quote from: Ghegs on March 11, 2016, 12:29:56 am
And sure, something like Ninja Gaiden would become even more extremely difficult with one-hit kills. But it kind of has them already, since a hit at an inopportune moment will send you flying into a bottomless pit.


Not to mention, Ninja Gaiden would be literally impossible to no-death if it lacked a life bar - there's one point in the game where you're forced to take a hit on first try, against the 3rd form of the final boss battle. Upon destroying its head, it'll detach and roll at you, in which case there's no way to bypass it, unless you were to die, grab Spin Slash, and then use that to destroy the head as it rolls.

Ninja Gaiden is the game that I'll always stand by as having the perfect difficulty level. It's demanding, but manageable, it's mostly consistent so you can beast at it once you learn the tricks, however it has that *slight* element of randomness (with the "Hammer Bros." enemies) that makes even expert players have to be on their toes. Keeps things exciting without reaching Holy Diver-levels of nerve-wracking.

Quote from: Ghegs on March 11, 2016, 12:29:56 am
However, I can think of many Famicom games that would be improved by removing the lifebar and adding one-hit kills (or at least adding a new difficulty mode that does that). Moon Crystal and Kyatto Ninden Teyandee are the first that come to mind, both are quite easy games. In Moon Crystal you can tank most of the bosses without having to learn their patterns at all, wouldn't be able to do that with one-hit kills.


The game that I'll always use as an example of this is Choujin Sentai Jetman - there is some clever enemy layout in that game, but you'll only know it if you're playing on the 1.H.K. Very Hard mode setting. Every other setting on that game lacks intensity, meaning it fails to live up to the music. Very Hard is the way to go, and even then it isn't *too* tough a no-death run.

Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on March 11, 2016, 04:26:48 pm
I don't think adding a lifebar to Transformers no Nazo would make it too easy. Let's see a show of hands, how many of us here have completed that?




Playing through Convoy no Nazo was... not the most pleasant gaming experience in my life, but the game was still fully playable and I did have some degree of fun solving the stages, specifically the best way to tackle those terrifying vertical stages... it wouldn't have been nearly as intense if I could have just tanked hits.

Edit: To clarify (as I admittedly failed to read the initial statement properly), I don't think that it having a health bar would make it too easy, but rather that I wouldn't have enjoyed it as much.
So ends another chapter in the glorious legend of the Ninja... Until next time...

Shumi Nagaremono

Depends on the game.  The SMB games are just about perfectly balanced.  Ditto for a lot of Konami games like Contra.  Games that DO give you a lifebar would be all-but unplayable with one-hit deaths.  Rockman, Akumajou, Ninja Ryukenden etc. 

It's when you get games that control like crap, where it's all-but impossible to avoid getting hit at times, where one-hit deaths hinder gameplay.  Convoy no Nazo is, I think, a pretty good example.  Or the Namcot Star Wars game.

Ghegs

Many people have cleared Rockman games without ever taking a hit. The ninth and tenth installations even offer achievement points for doing it, it's very far from unplayable. Same thing with Castlevania, I'd say.

I'll give you Convoy no Nazo but that's poorly designed to begin with. Namcot Star Wars, however, is not. Controls nicely, no problems with one-hit deaths there.

fcgamer

I personally don't enjoy one-hit deaths.  I've played through games before without taking a hit, and have also made it through games while rarely taking a hit (such as Castlevania 3), but that can be credited to years and years of experience.  If I were forced to do it that way, as a youngster, that game would have gone out the window years ago.

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zmaster18

Namco's Star Wars is another good example. Its a game of memorizing the levels :) I wish there was a continue option. At least in Star Wars you can get crystals and use the force in many different ways. It's like you get to cheat once per level and you can levitate and stuff! I think that makes it pretty fair!

Ghegs

Quote from: zmaster18 on March 19, 2016, 11:25:56 amNamco's Star Wars is another good example. Its a game of memorizing the levels :) I wish there was a continue option.


There is! When you Game Over and see Vader's head, hold up and press A eight times. But it can only be done twice, and if I recall, you need to have enough Force power to do it.

As a side note, I like the Force power system in that game, far more interesting than what the other version has.

tappybot

I like 'One Hit Kills', depending on how well it's implemented.

Like in Contra, you take a bullet, you're dead. Sorry.   It also encourages you to not get hit and learn enemy movements and patterns.


Can you imagine games like Bubble Bobble, if you had a health bar?  Simple games don't need to be over designed.
3D is a different world entirely. You'll notice Mario 64 has a life bar, where it typically wouldn't.