Kira Kira Star Night DX First PV released. (EDIT: New 8 bit music power boards!)

Started by ImATrackMan, May 24, 2016, 12:39:41 am

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jensma

May 26, 2016, 05:38:17 am #15 Last Edit: May 26, 2016, 05:52:23 am by jensma
If it's just the voltage problem - you could include a voltage regulator to step down to voltage from 5V to 3.3V pretty easily.

Since the cartridge gets it's 5V from two pins you have to cut the trace of Pin 1, too. I couldn't include this in the picture.

(BEWARE: MSPAINT!)

famifan

Quote from: jensma on May 26, 2016, 05:38:17 am
If it's just the voltage problem - you could include a voltage regulator to step down to voltage from 5V to 3.3V pretty easily.


perhaps, you forgot about I/O pins at least. They're still exposed to 5V instead of 3.3V. AFAIK, 5V could easily exceed absolute maximum rating provided by the manufacter in case of 3.3V ICs. Nobody knows how long these IC remain operatable in such conditions.. So, voltage shirt resistors should be installed around all I/O pins.

and the last questions: how about the mapper IC? will it be operatable under 3.3V?

Great Hierophant

Quote from: ImATrackMan on May 24, 2016, 12:39:41 am

EDIT:
Got too excited too soon.

【ご注意】
*純正FC及びFC互換機のすべてに対応するものではありません。製造時期等により動作しない場合があります。



Interpreting Google translate, this appears to mean "This cartridge may or may not work in every geniune Famicom or Famicom compatible, depending on the date of manufacture."

Who wants to spend $60 plus shipping for a crapshoot?  It may work in my HVC-CPU-07 Famicom, it may work in my HVCN-CPU-02 AV Famicom, it may work in neither console.  

NES Homebrew, while having its own problems, at least can be relied upon to work in just about any NES.  Famicom hardware, outside the really early revisions, is pretty reliable and consistent.  I guess they don't care about the quality of their product or their customer's experience so long as they are the only ones making Famicom carts.  I do not feel like risking my beautifully working AV Famicom, which I bought new in 2003, because this company was too cheap to invest in proper 5v boards and chips.   Almost every one of the Famicom's 60 pins expects a 5v logic level including both address and data buses. 

The graphics look really good and the sound tracks are excellent.  The game itself looks way too simple, however.  No obstacles, no powerups, no enemies, it looks like an alpha-level build, not a full game.  


Check out my retro gaming and computing blog : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/

P

Quote from: Great Hierophant on May 26, 2016, 06:50:54 pm
Quote from: ImATrackMan on May 24, 2016, 12:39:41 am

EDIT:
Got too excited too soon.

【ご注意】
*純正FC及びFC互換機のすべてに対応するものではありません。製造時期等により動作しない場合があります。



Interpreting Google translate, this appears to mean "This cartridge may or may not work in every geniune Famicom or Famicom compatible, depending on the date of manufacture."

Yeah that's how I understood it too. Total deal-breaker.

ImATrackMan

Quote from: Great Hierophant on May 26, 2016, 06:50:54 pmIt may work in my HVC-CPU-07 Famicom, it may work in my HVCN-CPU-02 AV Famicom, it may work in neither console.
the board revision is somewhat irrelevant because it "worked" and blew the PPU on my first -07 with a 2A03E CPU (replaced the PPU, now it boots but the graphics are fucked, so it probably blew the VRAM as well) and it doesn't boot at all on the second 07 with a 2A03G CPU. It seems to work on all AV Famicoms (they all have H CPUs) and most GPM-02s. PPU revision doesn't seem to matter since the G-revision replacement in my first FC displays something, so as long as you have an original, square-button FC (no revision), or an FC with an E or H-rev CPU, chances are it'll work.

I really hope jensma gets the boards laid out, but if not, I'll definitely do it and give them out to anyone who has a non-working cart. The issue is on the cartridge, not the ROM itself.

jensma

Quote from: ImATrackMan on May 26, 2016, 11:16:06 pm
I really hope jensma gets the boards laid out, but if not, I'll definitely do it and give them out to anyone who has a non-working cart. The issue is on the cartridge, not the ROM itself.


Sure - I need some more info about the board. Does somebody has a picture of the other side of the pcb at hand?
Are there any supporting plastic poles beneath the pcb?

And I need some measurements:

Great Hierophant

Quote from: ImATrackMan on May 26, 2016, 11:16:06 pm
Quote from: Great Hierophant on May 26, 2016, 06:50:54 pmIt may work in my HVC-CPU-07 Famicom, it may work in my HVCN-CPU-02 AV Famicom, it may work in neither console.
the board revision is somewhat irrelevant because it "worked" and blew the PPU on my first -07 with a 2A03E CPU (replaced the PPU, now it boots but the graphics are fucked, so it probably blew the VRAM as well) and it doesn't boot at all on the second 07 with a 2A03G CPU. It seems to work on all AV Famicoms (they all have H CPUs) and most GPM-02s. PPU revision doesn't seem to matter since the G-revision replacement in my first FC displays something, so as long as you have an original, square-button FC (no revision), or an FC with an E or H-rev CPU, chances are it'll work.


Not all AV Famicoms use rev H chips, some use rev G chips, as shown in the first photo on this page : http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=1592.480 (you may need to hover over image with mouse).  If it blew the PPU on your rev E -07, then even if it worked it is still quite dangerous, which is even worse.  My AV Famicom uses rev H chips, so I would probably be good if I bought this thing, but I would not want to risk unnecessary stress on the chips considering how awesome this little system is. 

Check out my retro gaming and computing blog : http://nerdlypleasures.blogspot.com/

L___E___T

 



While homebrew releases in any form are highly applaudable - I am still gobsmacked that a release was put out in this form - where the target buyers are unsure if the game is even safe to use on their system...
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

fcgamer

These aren't official Famicom games, no reason why they should be expected to run perfectly in original hardware.  The year is 2016, new clones are being manufactured and sold to fans and casual gamers everywhere around the globe.  I honestly suspect that aside from collectors, the casual gamers would be fine with just getting a cheap clone and then playing all of their games, maybe this one even. 

Homebrew has always done stuff that wasn't necessarily compatible with original hardware, check out all the NES homebrews that run in emulators but not real machines. 

Honestly not sure what the big deal is, and I am extremely excited about this, and hope to find someone who can help me preorder it.
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mfm

Quote from: fcgamer on May 27, 2016, 08:03:39 am
These aren't official Famicom games, no reason why they should be expected to run perfectly in original hardware.  The year is 2016, new clones are being manufactured and sold to fans and casual gamers everywhere around the globe.  I honestly suspect that aside from collectors, the casual gamers would be fine with just getting a cheap clone and then playing all of their games, maybe this one even. 

Homebrew has always done stuff that wasn't necessarily compatible with original hardware, check out all the NES homebrews that run in emulators but not real machines. 

Honestly not sure what the big deal is, and I am extremely excited about this, and hope to find someone who can help me preorder it.


Casual gamers won't buy a Famicom game for $60, they'll just download the ROM (or buy it online).

I think you're quite alone in accepting worse quality of these expensive releases compared to $5 pirate carts out of Shenzhen (which you are very fast to disapprove of and call cheap garbage in all other threads here).

Also using a clone won't stop the game from crashing if the 5 volts overheat the chips after playing for a while (as reported on amazon.jp for 8 bit music power).

L___E___T

May 27, 2016, 08:43:01 am #25 Last Edit: May 27, 2016, 09:10:54 am by L___E___T
 



Well, for me - there is a big contradiction in how this game is marketed.  It's billed as a legitimate release (as close as possible) and clearly targeting the retro collector, which is not a casual gamer in that sense (they play Android / PC / 3DS, and are still then probably not a casual gamer as such).  The guy must know his market pretty well, Project F did a superb job with Mr.Splash even if it was very limited and half DIY.

I would have thought, that it would at least be tested on official hardware, but to be an active risk in damaging that hardware?  It's ludicrous.  That's like bottled water that comes with a health warning.  Madness.

So I would love to buy one, but not when they are put together like this.  I can't support that approach.  I love these releases, but not in this form, it doesn't take much to do it properly, as repro builders will attest.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

Ghegs

Quote from: fcgamer on May 27, 2016, 08:03:39 am
These aren't official Famicom games, no reason why they should be expected to run perfectly in original hardware.


Of course they should be expected to run on original hardware. Anything else is utter nonsense. Clones have no standards to their build quality or capabilities, each one is different. Original hardware, despite the differences between original/AV/Titler, is the standard, all official games run on all of them. It makes no sense to release even an unofficial game that doesn't. If a NES homebrew physical cart was released that didn't run on original NES but did run on, say, Retron 5 for example, it would be panned out of the Internet.

To follow LET's lead, If the devs want to release a game for "Shitty Clone X" then they should drop any pretenses and mentions of the Famicom and just put "FOR SHITTY CLONE X" in big red letters on the box.

fcgamer

It's an unlicensed game, plain and simple.  With that being the case, I see no problems with it being treated as such.  The game is unlicensed, yet you guys want to raise the expectations so high for it, just because what, it was programmed by a fan and not a greedy corporation somewhere?  Ridiculous.  At the end of the day, the game is an unlicensed product, or as some people here would prefer to term it, a "pirate".   ;D

Being from Europe, maybe you guys never heard of all the warnings from Nintendo back in the early 90s about the unlicensed games / products; Game Shark, Game Genie, unlicensed carts, etc.  Nintendo always had campaigns that warned against buying these devices, due to potential damage being caused.  Nothing new there either.   
Family Bits - Check Progress Below!

https://famicomfamilybits.wordpress.com

UglyJoe

Quote from: fcgamer on May 27, 2016, 09:29:09 am
The game is unlicensed, yet you guys want to raise the expectations so high for it


Personally, I don't consider "will not fry my Famicom" to be a high expectation ;D

jensma

I'm basically doing a HVC-TLROM with additional holes right now :) I'll release the design files for free when they're done :) I just want to make sure everything works as expected, so I'll have to wait for a dump :/

Are there any supporting poles under the original pcb?