Kira Kira Star Night DX First PV released. (EDIT: New 8 bit music power boards!)

[mfm]

The game is unlicensed, yet you guys want to raise the expectations so high for it

We raise it to the expectation of cheap modern Chinese pirate carts (the ones you seem to hate so much).

The Nintendo campaigns were mostly to scare people from buying game copiers or imports and didn't have much to do with reality.

[P]

Who said it will work on all clones? As Ghegs said there's no standard to clones and the warning also clearly says that there may be both Famicoms and Famiclones that it won't work on.
What does it matter if it's a professionally made game, a garage project or whatever, selling a game that may blow up peoples equipment is just ridiculous if you hope people to buy anything more from you in the future. And it would be stupid if people didn't complain about something like that.

Everything else seems to be of good quality in this game, it's just that they choose the cartridge manufacturer poorly.

it was programmed by a fan and not a greedy corporation somewhere?

He's a professional game programmer from the Famicom era, and has worked in several famous gaming companies if I remember correctly.

The issue is on the cartridge, not the ROM itself.

I read that there are ways to damage the PPU using software, but I guess that's not the case here.

[ImATrackMan]

I'm basically doing a HVC-TLROM with additional holes right now I'll release the design files for free when they're done I just want to make sure everything works as expected, so I'll have to wait for a dump :/

Are there any supporting poles under the original pcb?

There is one on the front shell and it won't conflict with the position of any chips, but there are three on the back. Two of them conflict with the position of the CHR-ROM, the third is a central support that should fit between both of the chips. The approx. positions of these supports are the two red dots and black line. They make contact with the "mapper" side of the CC board.

Other measurements are here.
I'll PM you the ROMs of the first version of the game as well as 8BMP since they're all highly likely to be the same config. The only issue that needs to be taken into account is game saves. v1 has no game saving, v2 might save high scores, though this is unlikely. The max ROM sizes for K/L are 512 and 256 for the PRG and CHR respectively and v1 has 256 for both.

[fcgamer]

It seems as though there was some truth to the Nintendo campaigns back in the day.  About Camerica games:

The infamous switch on the back of the cart simply connects the negative supply to the cart edge. Toploaders will NOT be happy if it is turned on! This will cause the circuit to draw tons of current, which will most likely fry it if the console is left on too long. On my console, it causes the screen to go black with grey wavy lines, and the audio produces a loud buzz.

Taken from:

http://kevtris.org/mappers/lockout/camerica.html


In fact, a lot of the companies would stun the lockout chip with voltages to bypass it:

http://kevtris.org/mappers/lockout/index.html

Um, yeah.


We don't even have this game yet, how can you guys be so sure the "frying issues" would occur with this one as well?  Also, I don't think it really matters if the game was programmed by a programmer from back in the day, it is still a homebrew / unlicensed title   And to expect that an unlicensed title will run 100% properly on a licensed machine, in an age where original hardware is being used less and less, is a bit silly. 

The game is unlicensed, yet you guys want to raise the expectations so high for it

We raise it to the expectation of cheap modern Chinese pirate carts (the ones you seem to hate so much).

The Nintendo campaigns were mostly to scare people from buying game copiers or imports and didn't have much to do with reality.

[ImATrackMan]

It seems as though there was some truth to the Nintendo campaigns back in the day.  About Camerica games:

The infamous switch on the back of the cart simply connects the negative supply to the cart edge. Toploaders will NOT be happy if it is turned on! This will cause the circuit to draw tons of current, which will most likely fry it if the console is left on too long. On my console, it causes the screen to go black with grey wavy lines, and the audio produces a loud buzz.

Taken from:

http://kevtris.org/mappers/lockout/camerica.html


In fact, a lot of the companies would stun the lockout chip with voltages to bypass it:

http://kevtris.org/mappers/lockout/index.html

Um, yeah.


We don't even have this game yet, how can you guys be so sure the "frying issues" would occur with this one as well?  Also, I don't think it really matters if the game was programmed by a programmer from back in the day, it is still a homebrew / unlicensed title  And to expect that an unlicensed title will run 100% properly on a licensed machine, in an age where original hardware is being used less and less, is a bit silly.  

The game is unlicensed, yet you guys want to raise the expectations so high for it

We raise it to the expectation of cheap modern Chinese pirate carts (the ones you seem to hate so much).

The Nintendo campaigns were mostly to scare people from buying game copiers or imports and didn't have much to do with reality.

The issue is not the programming of the ROM. The issue is the shit manufacturing of the cartridge which is why jensma and I (mostly jensma, I really appreciate it) are working to make TxROM boards that fit in the cartridge shells. 8bit music power and KKSNv1 run fine on powerpaks and everdrives because they are standard MMC3 NES roms. "Homebrew/unlicenced" doesn't mean bad quality or programming. Blade Buster, The Legend of Link, Super Bat Puncher, Alter Ego, and many others are cut from the same cloth. My TNS cartridges and slot expander are 100% totally unlicenced and occasionally require the Famicom to power multiple cartridges at a time. Software compatibility is 100% guaranteed, hardware compatibility is the gamble here.

[fcgamer]

I totally agree that homebrew / unlicensed doesn't necessarily mean bad quality / programming / whatever; I am the forum's champion of unlicensed games.  I just feel a bit frustrated because I am tired of seeing this (and the previous release) trashed so bad, just because of people having unrealistic expectations.  The original Famicom is over 30 years old, the hardware has "changed" over the years (the machines that are being made now don't contain the same hardware as the original machines.  (And even within the original machines, there were tons of revisions and what not.)  

So you might wish that the manufacturer of these carts had done something to cater towards original hardware, but that is sort of like asking A. Chudov to have programmed his games for original hardware, just something that is unlikely.

With that said, can anyone else me preorder this game?  
Post Merge: May 27, 2016, 08:30:10 pm
On another note, Legend of Link is just a hack.  
Post Merge: May 27, 2016, 08:32:33 pm
And to the guy that mentioned Mr. Splash (I forget who mentioned it):  IMO, that is one of the worst ways to release a homebrew game.  Partially DIY (did you know that DIY in Taiwan = masturbation, heh) , but also so limited that no one could even get the thing.  Such limited homebrew releases suck, imo.  It is just a tease to collectors and gamers alike, and it doesn't matter if the quality is excellent or not, if most people can never even own the thing.

[Great Hierophant]

I totally agree that homebrew / unlicensed doesn't necessarily mean bad quality / programming / whatever; I am the forum's champion of unlicensed games.  I just feel a bit frustrated because I am tired of seeing this (and the previous release) trashed so bad, just because of people having unrealistic expectations.  The original Famicom is over 30 years old, the hardware has "changed" over the years (the machines that are being made now don't contain the same hardware as the original machines.  (And even within the original machines, there were tons of revisions and what not.)  

So you might wish that the manufacturer of these carts had done something to cater towards original hardware, but that is sort of like asking A. Chudov to have programmed his games for original hardware, just something that is unlikely.

For NES Homebrew, the standards are pretty well established.  You start program the game with the assistance of an accurate emulator, a 6502 compiler and appropriate graphics and sound tools.  You test the game in a flash cart or an EPROM cart on at least one real Nintendo-manufactured system.  Finally, you make some or obtain some quality boards and 5v flash chips and manufacture your game.  If you don't follow a reasonable standard like this, you risk incompatibility and your work being lost and forgotten.  

Your expectations are too low for a $60 product.  The Nintendo-made hardware really didn't change much at its core during the 20 years in which it was in active production.  Most people seem to prefer using Nintendo's original hardware to clone hardware, a trend that is fortunately increasing over time.  Many modern clones have inaccurate sound (reversed duty cycles), jailbars in the video, mushy controllers and garbage build quality.  Looking for a specific clone may be easy today, but impossible two years from now. 

[ImATrackMan]

With that said, can anyone else me preorder this game?

I preordered the Amazon limited edition using FromJapan as they were the only ones able to actually do it. Buyee/Tenso didn't allow me due to "certain restrictions".
I'm sure you'd be able to get the "standard" version from AmiAmi (also very good, I've used them many times)
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?scode=GAME-0016443&rank=ctg
AmiAmi preorders closed
Sangatsu usagi has their own special edition that comes with three randomly chosen buttons:
http://www.march-rabbit.jp/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4224

with regards to this:

I just feel a bit frustrated because I am tired of seeing this (and the previous release) trashed so bad, just because of people having unrealistic expectations.

The first version of the game was trashed pretty hard, too and that was a ROM, book, and CD. There were a few carts made but people were (and still are) so offended that he was selling the limited 30th anniversary event-only carts that had real proper not-trash boards made for about $200 that they dismissed the entire release and never bought it. I must be one of less than 10 people in the states that owns a copy. It's also likely because it panders to me and people like me so hard, the retro gamers that are super into all that moe moe cutsey anime weeaboo shit, that people get turned off by it. The first version was and still is one of, if not my favorite of all NES/FC homebrews, but maybe I'm just easy to please.

If you were to talk to me about it personally, I'd probably try to sell you on this SO, SO HARD. I love the first version of the game. I've brought my Famicom to conventions and let people play it and THEY love the game. I want other people to love it as well (why the replacement boards are getting made), but the bad taste that 8BMP left in my and other people's mouths makes that really hard to do.

[Great Hierophant]

By the time someone buys the DX version gets it shipped out of Japan and then purchases a replacement quality board  , you may have spent somewhere close to the $200 mark for the earlier version of the game.  Your wallet will  by the end.

[ImATrackMan]

Depending on where you live, of course. In my case, the game's 50 bucks and with FromJapan's fees (minus EMS shipping that everyone should use by default) it'll come out to around 55-60. Jensma sells his Gimmick! repro boards for about $3 AND he will provide the board files, so depending on who wants to sell them, the boards could be $3 from Jensma, free if you ask me nicely, or if you want to make your own, the total cost won't come near $200

[Ghegs]

The original Famicom is over 30 years old, the hardware has "changed" over the years (the machines that are being made now don't contain the same hardware as the original machines.

I know it was in quotes, but the Famicom hardware has not changed one bit since 1993. How clones are being manufactured now is completely irrelevant. They're unofficial, they're not by Nintendo, they are not Famicom. At best they are Famicom-compatible, if even that. To say that a clone system is a continuation of the Famicom hardware is like saying a self-built car, that has the Porsche logo slapped on it, is a real Porsche product and should be included when talking about Porsche.

For NES Homebrew, the standards are pretty well established.  You start program the game with the assistance of an accurate emulator, a 6502 compiler and appropriate graphics and sound tools.  You test the game in a flash cart or an EPROM cart on at least one real Nintendo-manufactured system.  Finally, you make some or obtain some quality boards and 5v flash chips and manufacture your game.  If you don't follow a reasonable standard like this, you risk incompatibility and your work being lost and forgotten.  

And because of these standards, I can take any NES homebrew physical cart (not that I own every single one, but I have seven of them), put a NES-to-FC adapter on it and play it on my AV Famicom. I'm pretty sure the developers did not plan for their game to be played this way, yet it works perfectly.

Meanwhile wanting a Famicom homebrew to work on a Famicom is expecting too much? C'mon now.

[P]

We don't even have this game yet, how can you guys be so sure the "frying issues" would occur with this one as well?

Well the previous one evidentially fried some people's systems, and they still use the same warning as before, which sounds like they are probably still partly using the faulty boards. So how are anyone supposed to trust them now? I can't believe anyone defends garbage like this.

[mfm]

I can't believe anyone defends garbage like this.

Especially someone calling the normal Chinese copies (which DO work on all real Famicoms) cheap garbage...

[fcgamer]

By the reactions on the page, I guess we are sort of dating ourselves and our entries into the retro gaming scene, perhaps?  The reason I say that:

http://www.nesworld.com/article.php?system=nes&data=neshomebrew

Talk about a standard for homebrew games, or not   To say there is a standard is silly.  Even with the so-called homebrew publishers, it wasn't until recently that they (for the most part) stopped butchering old games and began using new pcbs.  I even remember when they used old pcbs and tin boxes for their games, or if we want to go further back, remember Solar Wars and the DIY instructions Chris put out for it?  Not really much of a standard, imo.

Ghegs, you say that "how clones are being manufactured now is completely irrelevant.  They're unofficial, they're not by Nintendo, they are not Famicom.  At best they are Famicom-compatible, if even that."  No offense, but I suggest you take a hard look at the words you typed, and then take a hard look at 8Bit Music Power, and Kira Kira.  Can we not say about the two aforementioned games, "They're unofficial, they're not by Nintendo, they are not Famicom.  At best they are Famicom-compatible, if even that."  If not, why not?  They are just as much (or not) Famicom as the hardware clones of today.  Neither are manufactured or endorsed by Nintendo, etc.

Finally you say the following:  "Meanwhile wanting a Famicom homebrew to work on a Famicom is expecting too much? C'mon now."
  But to quote you earlier, you said the following:  [b'They're unofficial, they're not by Nintendo, they are not Famicom.  At best they are Famicom-compatible, if even that."[/b]  Why do unofficial games get the pass (and then the criticism when they don't run on ALL real hardware versions) but clone machines get thrown down the toilet?                  It seems like a double-standard from what you, yourself said.  Can't say that unofficial software gets a pass and then needs to be held at higher standards, now can we?   
Post Merge: May 28, 2016, 07:04:35 am

We don't even have this game yet, how can you guys be so sure the "frying issues" would occur with this one as well?

Well the previous one evidentially fried some people's systems, and they still use the same warning as before, which sounds like they are probably still partly using the faulty boards. So how are anyone supposed to trust them now? I can't believe anyone defends garbage like this.

Right, and as we pointed out earlier, Game Genie, Codemasters games, etc also had the risk of frying machines back in the day.  You talk about defending garbage, I talk about being realistic. 
Post Merge: May 28, 2016, 07:09:50 am

I can't believe anyone defends garbage like this.

Especially someone calling the normal Chinese copies (which DO work on all real Famicoms) cheap garbage...

Do you disagree and feel that the modern Aliexpress Chinese Famiclone crap is good?  I guess it is good for those cheap-ass gamers that don't want to buy / collect the antique carts, just throw in a request to some guy and pay $7 to get a game cart shipped to your door.  Then play pretend to your friends and relatives that you own an antique cart...

You ever see an early 90s pirate cart versus an Aliexpress one?  Build quality is 100% different, one is high quality with chips, durable case, the other is globs and a case that is so brittle, even looking at it funny could break it.  Besides, what is the fun of collecting some modern crap that one can get made at will, just by waving a $5 bill?  That is why I call it cheap garbage, namely because it is.

And if we want to dig deeper, it seems to me that those 400 in 1 He Cards wouldn't even run on original hardware without modification, along with some other modern-made Aliexpress crap.  Do you dare to disagree on that statement?  So to go against your other post, no, they don't work in original hardware.   
Post Merge: May 28, 2016, 07:15:16 am
Can you show me a picture of your cart, please?  And if you ever choose to sell it, would you please consider me first?

Some of my Japanese contacts had told me that it was illegal in Japan to repurpose Famicom carts for homebrews, and as such , why the first Kira Kira was so limited / so expensive.  If there was really a new board designed, not just reuse of old parts, please show.     

With that said, can anyone else me preorder this game?

I preordered the Amazon limited edition using FromJapan as they were the only ones able to actually do it. Buyee/Tenso didn't allow me due to "certain restrictions".
I'm sure you'd be able to get the "standard" version from AmiAmi (also very good, I've used them many times)
http://www.amiami.com/top/detail/detail?scode=GAME-0016443&rank=ctg
AmiAmi preorders closed
Sangatsu usagi has their own special edition that comes with three randomly chosen buttons:
http://www.march-rabbit.jp/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4224

with regards to this:

I just feel a bit frustrated because I am tired of seeing this (and the previous release) trashed so bad, just because of people having unrealistic expectations.

The first version of the game was trashed pretty hard, too and that was a ROM, book, and CD. There were a few carts made but people were (and still are) so offended that he was selling the limited 30th anniversary event-only carts that had real proper not-trash boards made for about $200 that they dismissed the entire release and never bought it. I must be one of less than 10 people in the states that owns a copy. It's also likely because it panders to me and people like me so hard, the retro gamers that are super into all that moe moe cutsey anime weeaboo shit, that people get turned off by it. The first version was and still is one of, if not my favorite of all NES/FC homebrews, but maybe I'm just easy to please.

If you were to talk to me about it personally, I'd probably try to sell you on this SO, SO HARD. I love the first version of the game. I've brought my Famicom to conventions and let people play it and THEY love the game. I want other people to love it as well (why the replacement boards are getting made), but the bad taste that 8BMP left in my and other people's mouths makes that really hard to do.

[chowder]

Homebrew for the Famicom that doesn't work on the original consoles (or risks damaging them) is stupid, and defending it in any way is also stupid.

I have no idea why you're dragging this discussion out, are you bored or something?