Hardest Game You've Played?

Started by Nightstar699, November 12, 2009, 01:24:59 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

Nightstar699

Quote from: Ghegs on July 26, 2014, 09:44:37 am

Go to any forum or community that plays arcade games and tell them how you beat Metal Slug or R-Type with 10 continues. See what kind of responses you get.


Probably not showered with praise, but that wouldn't make the game any less "beaten"... it just wouldn't make it 1CC'd, hence, as I stated before, why it warrants its own separate term.
So ends another chapter in the glorious legend of the Ninja... Until next time...

VegaVegas

Quote from: Ghegs on July 26, 2014, 09:44:37 am
Not a lame quote and not a theory, that's how these games are played in many places. It originates from the arcade scene where using a continue would cost you actual money. So players would try to see how far they can get just using a single credit, until eventually being able to get through it with just one. If you played these games for score, you'd notice they actually reset your score (or mark it as invalidated by adding a 1 at the end, to let others know how many continues have been used) if you use a continue, so all scoring runs naturally use only a single credit. There are many games that don't even allow you access to the very last stage or boss if you've used a continue.

Hence, 1 Credit Clear is the true mark of clearing games that use credits in this way.

Go to any forum or community that plays arcade games and tell them how you beat Metal Slug or R-Type with 10 continues. See what kind of responses you get.


Don't compare arcade games to home consoles' games, it's a completely different story. For example, have you seen Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads (I mean the NES version) as an arcade cabinet?? You mentioned Metal Slug where you continue playing right where you left off, so that's OK, I'd agree with that but I would not when it comes to any NES/SNES/Genesis games. Don't tell me beating Ninja Gaiden isn't challenging at all even when you use unlimited continues. The game just puts you back at the beginning of the damn world....

You even mentioned arcade high-score games but I don't know why you started talking about them since we talk about games you can actually beat...

Ghegs

Quote from: MaarioS on July 26, 2014, 12:40:43 pm
Don't compare arcade games to home consoles' games, it's a completely different story.


Only in your mind.

QuoteFor example, have you seen Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads (I mean the NES version) as an arcade cabinet??


That's irrelevant. How you play these games has nothing to do with where they're available.

QuoteDon't tell me beating Ninja Gaiden isn't challenging at all even when you use unlimited continues. The game just puts you back at the beginning of the damn world....


I never said it wasn't challenging even with unlimited continues, but even with restarting the world you can just try it over and over again until you get it right. That removes a lot of the challenge, and I count being able to keep your cool from beginning to end while you're doing the 1CC run as part of the process. Ninja Gaiden even takes pity on you here, if you beat the penultimate bosses and then die at the final one, you don't have to fight the previous ones again. The game becomes easier after you continue, you're no longer playing with the same level of challenge as before. Beating the game without continues is still a nice achievement, and a great start for the 1CC. Now you know what to do, all you have to do is execute it in a single run.

QuoteYou even mentioned arcade high-score games but I don't know why you started talking about them since we talk about games you can actually beat...


Ah, here's the true problem. You're defeating yourself before even starting the game. I've beaten, and by that I mean I've 1CCed, many arcade titles and I don't consider myself a super-expert player. Going for the 1CC isn't as difficult as you may think. Sure, it's harder than just creditfeeding and you'll have to practice a bit more, but it's not some insurmountable beast from Hell.

Here's what I'm saying:

Playing for the 1CC makes you a better gamer in the long run and gives you a better appreciation of the games and the developers, because you notice things you might not notice when constantly continuing. These games, and I'm absolutely including Famicom titles here, can be beaten on a single credit. It's not impossible and in a fair amount of cases, quite doable with a bit of practice. If you want to get technical, it also gives you more bang for your money, since the same game will now keep you occupied for longer. It's a style of gaming that has, quite unfortunately in my humble opinion, fallen out of favor in recent times. That's why games like Dark Souls are so popular, because they bring a little bit of that old "Hey, I gotta actually practice and think before I can beat this thing"-mentality back to games.

All I'm asking is that you try it with something easy like Contra first, you might find you enjoy the additional challenge.

Bob-Bob

Namco's Star Wars is straight-up unfair. How do they expect you to get anywhere with no health meter and no continues?  >:(

VegaVegas

I feel like we keep misunderstanding each other. Are you trying to tell me beating a game using continues is less enjoyable or it doesn't count as a beaten game?? Hell, please explain it more, give me some kind of source or anything confirming arcade games and home consoles' games aren't comparable only in my mind. Comparing a fish to shark makes a lot of sense LOL. Home console games have their own rules and so do arcade games. I'd say unlimited continues don't count only in your mind :P

P

Most action games are ports of arcade games so of course they are very similar to arcade games (think about why continue is also called credit). Even if the credit rules may differ a bit on many arcade conversions from their arcade originals, you can't deny that you play them pretty much the same way.

Ghegs definitely has a point, I don't feel like I really saved the world in Ninja Gaiden if my score was reset several times due to using continues. But I think we should keep the terms "beat" and "1CC" separate for games like Ninja Gaiden that has pretty fair credit rules. Unlike for example Bubble Bobble which pretty much only punishes the player when continuing by resetting his score.

Ghegs

July 26, 2014, 10:40:11 pm #66 Last Edit: July 26, 2014, 10:45:47 pm by Ghegs
Quote from: MaarioS on July 26, 2014, 01:52:06 pm
Are you trying to tell me beating a game using continues is less enjoyable or it doesn't count as a beaten game??


That's how it is for me, yes. I don't want to take a mulligan when playing a game. If you've never beaten a game without continuing, you can't exactly know how the difference feels. Like I said, go play Contra this way. If you've already beaten it with continues, doing the 1CC shouldn't take too long. We're talking a couple of hours at the most here.

QuoteHell, please explain it more, give me some kind of source or anything confirming arcade games and home consoles' games aren't comparable only in my mind.

QuoteHome console games have their own rules and so do arcade games.


Just look at how they work. Like I said earlier and P just pointed at as well, these games have arcade roots and you play them pretty much the same way. What's the difference between Metal Slug and Contra? Similar games in theme and gameplay, both give you three lives, and after you lose them, you get a GAME OVER screen but also the possibility to continue.

What's the difference between Ninja Gaiden (NES) and Strider (Arcade)? Both are ninja-tastic action-platformers, you got some sweet moves, you can hang on walls, both give you three lives to start with. Notice how in Ninja Gaiden the screen even starts flashing red when you lose your last life, this doesn't happen upon dying for the first or second time. It directly tells you that this time is somehow different. And then you get the GAME OVER screen and the option to continue.

Just like in an arcade game.

nerdynebraskan

At this point, you're talking about the difference between beating a game and completely conquering it. Many gamers will never completely conquer a game, simply because there are thousands of different games worth playing out there. Many, if not a vast majority, prefer to move on to something new after seeing the credits after the final boss goes down.

I do think the quest for utter conquest is stronger in the retro scene, since many of us have been playing roughly the same set of games for the last 20+ years. I've beaten almost 150 NES games, but I've only conquered about a third of that total. And most of those were games I played over and over in childhood, before I had the slew of options I have now. I finally beat CastleVania for the first time the other night. If I thought as Ghegs does, I'd go back and play it again right away since it took me almost an hour's worth of continues to get Dracula down. But to be honest, now that I've finally beaten it, I'd much rather move on to beating CastleVania III and then the Ninja Gaiden games. (That is, when I'm not busy knocking off obscure titles for the Nintendo Age Beat Every NES Game in 2014 challenge.)
Can Nintendo Age Beat Every NES Game in 2015?

http://nintendoage.com/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=31&threadid=140551

Ghegs

Actually I'd still make a difference between 1CCing a game and completely conquering it, but perhaps I've already talked enough about the subject for a while.  ;)

L___E___T

August 09, 2014, 10:22:20 am #69 Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 10:40:12 am by L___E___T
I don't count using continues as not completing a game - but I do recognise that 1CC ing a game is a different breed though - to me that's a hardcore completion and absolutely worth chasing.  

For example, 1CC ing a game like Strider or Street Fighter 2, or even SMB1 is a harder feat than just finishing it altogether anyhow.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

P

Quote from: L___E___T on August 09, 2014, 10:22:20 am
I don't count not using continues as not completing a game

What does this sentence mean? ??? Too many negations. :)


You are technically always 1CCing SMB1 when you clear it because that game doesn't have continues. But I guess in that case 1CC could mean one life clear.

L___E___T

August 10, 2014, 10:35:00 am #71 Last Edit: August 10, 2014, 11:34:33 am by L___E___T
I meant to say I don't count using continues as not completing a game ;)

On SMB - You don't know about the Up and Start Continue?? :D  It is technically a cheat but it's so widely known that it's more like a continue option.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

P

Ah now it makes more sense.


Oh yeah I remember reading about that trick in a Nintendo Magazine back in the day but I never got a chance to try it (I didn't have the game at hand when I read about it, and I forgot about it before the next time I borrowed it from friends). I didn't have any problem of starting from the beginning of the game and eventually I was good enough to never get a Game Over in that game so I completely forgot that trick existed. It's needed in SMB2j however, but that game has continues normally.