Finds (Famicom/FDS)

Started by Alex930, July 30, 2006, 12:09:34 am

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Nightstar699

Here's my Famicom haul for May.



JuJu Densetsu, Seirei Densetsu Lickle, Space Harrier, Ducktales 2, Maten Douji, Takahashi Meijin No Bouken Jima 3, Makaimura, Argos No Senshi, Great Battle Cyber, Yie Ar Kung Fu, Dragon Spirit, Dragon Ninja and Karnov.

At the recommendation of Ghegs, I decided to add the Takahashi series to my wanted list (though I am gonna go for the original as well, just since it's nostalgic to me), starting with 3.

My favorite game I got this time around would have to be Maten Douji, Japanese version of Conquest of the Crystal Palace - I used to have a NES cart of this game but never really got into it, but this JP version really drew me in, and I ended up learning it no-death. I'd recommend this beautiful game to anyone who likes action titles, even though its graphics are rather cutesy (and resemble Saiyuki World 2 more than anything) this game has the spirit of a difficult action game a la Ninja Gaiden or Castlevania.
So ends another chapter in the glorious legend of the Ninja... Until next time...

zmaster18

Conquest of the Crystal Palace is such a hidden gem. I also used to have the NES cart. Any major differences from the NES version?

Nightstar699

Yessir, quite a few of them actually. Not all the changes are widely documented online, but here's a few obvious ones:

You have limited credits, just 3 continues allowed in the JP version. I got thrashed my first time attempting to beat it.

Some of the graphics were censored to appear less creepy, HG101 goes into this a bit more -> http://www.hardcoregaming101.net/crystalpalace/crystalpalace.htm

The JP version is harder, many enemies take more hits to kill here. This is especially noticeable for the final boss, who seems to go down in like 12-16 slashes in the U.S. version, but honestly... I'm not even sure if he can be killed with the sword in the JP version, one attempt I counted 30 or so hits on him and he was still standing. Every playthrough I could find of the JP version, both on YT and Japanese sites, just used Zap (w/ dog whistle) to kill him (which does him in with two hits). This is the method I use now.
So ends another chapter in the glorious legend of the Ninja... Until next time...


Ghegs

Good haul there, Nightstar699. Here's mine for May:



Yume Penguin Monogatari, Totsuzen! Machoman, Clash at Demonhead, The Immortal, Jackie Chan's Action Kung Fu, TMNT 2, and The Jetsons: Cogswell's Caper.

Dengeki Big Bang! has lots of important clues and hints in the text, so I opted for the NES release instead. The Immortal never got a Famicom release.

Nightstar699

Damn good picks to you as well - Good to see you finally have Jackie Chan, that's a great one. The Jetsons is also on my wanted list due to its similarities to Capcom's Chip n Dale games. Speaking of which, Chip n Dale 1 is currently one of my most wanted  games... having a real pain finding that one CIB in decent shape.

Why TMNT2, if I may ask? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for it myself, but I recall you not being too big on beat 'em ups in general.

Edit: Also, I've never heard of/seen The Immortal, I'll have to look up footage when I get home. However, there is one more NES-only game I think I want: Zen Intergalactic Ninja.
So ends another chapter in the glorious legend of the Ninja... Until next time...

pal52



Dragon Quest II cart with a sticker on top of it. Thought I had something really cool for a moment!

fcgamer

Immortal (imo) is an awesome game, and a looooong time ago I had interviewed one or two of the guys that actually worked on the game.

Ghegs' statement should be changed to the following:  The Immortal was never **officially** released on the Famicom.  I have a Famicom copy sitting in my collection, and it was made by a Chinese / Taiwanese company circa mid to late 1990s, I would suspect.  :)



Quote from: Nightstar699 on May 29, 2015, 01:46:03 pm
Damn good picks to you as well - Good to see you finally have Jackie Chan, that's a great one. The Jetsons is also on my wanted list due to its similarities to Capcom's Chip n Dale games. Speaking of which, Chip n Dale 1 is currently one of my most wanted  games... having a real pain finding that one CIB in decent shape.

Why TMNT2, if I may ask? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for it myself, but I recall you not being too big on beat 'em ups in general.

Edit: Also, I've never heard of/seen The Immortal, I'll have to look up footage when I get home. However, there is one more NES-only game I think I want: Zen Intergalactic Ninja.
Family Bits - Check Progress Below!

https://famicomfamilybits.wordpress.com

Ghegs

Quote from: Nightstar699 on May 29, 2015, 01:46:03 pm
Why TMNT2, if I may ask? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for it myself, but I recall you not being too big on beat 'em ups in general.


True, I'm not. But I already had Gekikame, and I had bought TMNT partly for nostalgia's sake (it's one of the few NES games I had as a kid) so I figured I'd complete the trilogy. It's technically the better game anyway, with each turtle having more personalized attacks, special moves, etc.

Also, we seem to be both after Chip 1 at the moment. ;) Zen Intergalactic Ninja is something I've been considering.

Quote from: fcgamerThe Immortal was never **officially** released on the Famicom. I have a Famicom copy sitting in my collection, and it was made by a Chinese / Taiwanese company circa mid to late 1990s


Illegal pirate carts don't really count. That's like saying Recca was released in the US around the 2010's because people started making repros of it. Doesn't quite fly.

fcgamer

Quote from: Ghegs on May 29, 2015, 11:22:12 pm
Quote from: Nightstar699 on May 29, 2015, 01:46:03 pm
Why TMNT2, if I may ask? Don't get me wrong, I'm looking for it myself, but I recall you not being too big on beat 'em ups in general.


True, I'm not. But I already had Gekikame, and I had bought TMNT partly for nostalgia's sake (it's one of the few NES games I had as a kid) so I figured I'd complete the trilogy. It's technically the better game anyway, with each turtle having more personalized attacks, special moves, etc.

Also, we seem to be both after Chip 1 at the moment. ;) Zen Intergalactic Ninja is something I've been considering.

Quote from: fcgamerThe Immortal was never **officially** released on the Famicom. I have a Famicom copy sitting in my collection, and it was made by a Chinese / Taiwanese company circa mid to late 1990s


Illegal pirate carts don't really count. That's like saying Recca was released in the US around the 2010's because people started making repros of it. Doesn't quite fly.


From a historian's perspective, I would beg to differ.  I've made the argument countless times, again and again, it is the period that matters, much more so than the copyright holder.  If we only look at it from a copyright perspective, games like Great Giana Sisters and Tengen's Tetris were both infringing on the IP of other companies, though likewise collectors would say that having these games in a collection is with merit.

Your example with Recca is really silly, tbh - collectors don't typically want reproduction games, and whereas something like a "repro" of Recca made in 2010 is simply a repro, getting factory-made Dendy / Pegasus / Japanese / whatever carts is something that happened at a time, but that time has come and gone, thus the collectability of the items (a finite supply that cannot be replenished plus a demand). 

While it does admittedly seem like a cop-out to purchase a bootleg of Gimmick on Famicom and then call it a day, for games that never had an official release, collectors are limited to four options:

1)  Do without the game.

2) Get a modern reproduction made.

3)  Get a historical / period piece, despite the fact that it wasn't an official product.

4)  Get it on alternative format. 

Choice 1 isn't much of a solution, and choice 2 wouldn't fly with me (as a collector, though others may feel differently).  I think choices 3 and 4 are both adequate, though I personally would prefer a historical / period-made bootleg anyway to having the game in another format, though that is just preference and we both hold different opinions on that.

Congrats either way on your finds :)
Family Bits - Check Progress Below!

https://famicomfamilybits.wordpress.com

Ghegs

(This came out longer than I expected...mods, please feel free to move it elsewhere.)

I believe using bootlegged versions of anything (games, movies, music, etc) as replacement for the real thing is not acceptable. It disrespects the original and the people who created it, and you're most likely getting a shoddy product that will fall to bits sooner later than later, while possibly also giving money to unscrupulous companies who are only in it to make a quick, easy buck by copying and selling things that aren't theirs to sell. This is the only community I've ever seen that romanticizes bootlegs to this degree, though I do understand the historic reasons for being interested in Dendy and whatnot.

You seem to count acquiring Famicom pirate carts of NES-only games as option 4) on your list. I wouldn't, since the hardware is still basically the same and the games can be played easily with an adapter. Alternative format would be getting the game on another contemporary system (really want a Japanese copy The Immortal? Get the Genesis release, called "Wizard of Immortal") or a modern digital re-release. The Immortal isn't available on the Famicom, so I went and got the NES release. It's official, it's solid from a "historic perspective" and it doesn't have a build quality that makes me think the plastic will crack if I stare at it too intensely. The thought of getting a bootleg version never even crossed my mind.

I consider myself a gamer first and collector far second. Having a legit copy of the game matters to me from a moral perspective. Also, I want the gameplay to be what the originals creators intended, not what some Chinese programmer copying the game thought might make the game more fun (Super Contra 6 with its increased lives) or alter it in some way (how many SMB2J bootlegs are there that are missing the title screen, or Luigi's physics are wrong, or the wind doesn't work properly?). If it was a case where the game was literally, honestly, 100% impossible to acquire officially (and not just really difficult and/or expensive) like an unreleased title or a well-made hack, I would go for a modern repro in a heartbeat. At least then I know that the build quality is good, I get a faithful copy of the source material and I know who the money goes to.

If you don't have the money for the real thing - deal with it. Gaming can be an expensive hobby. Start saving your money if you really want that Gimmick and/or keep hunting for that reasonably priced one. You aren't entitled to have every single game you want.

As you can tell, my beef is largely with bootlegs of games that already have official NES or Famicom releases. Unlicensed games are a different thing in my opinion as at least the companies aren't copying someone else's work to pass as their own. I can't think of anything as insulting to a creative person as that. If you could interview The Immortal devs again and tell them some Chinese company stole their work, sold it as their own and the original creators never saw a penny of it, what do you think their response would be?

Again, I can understand collecting pirate carts as historic curiosities, But considering them as valid options to an official product, and presenting them as such, I can't understand.

P

3) would be fine with games like Recca, but since Gimmick! bootlegs can't reproduce the sound properly I would rather choose 2). Now when the Samsung 5b can be accurately reproduced in programmable logic there's no reason to go with Shuiguan V, IMHO.

DDCecil



More good stuff from senseiman!

On the subject of repros, I have my FF hack and SMW hacks on cart, but could I easily replace them with the original ROM if I wanted to? (Not that I would) Or would it not be an "original" cart anymore?

fcgamer

Interesting thoughts Ghegs!  I hope in my first post I didn't sound overly critical or anything, I really just felt (feel) somewhat confused in general from  a collector's standpoint, but if was looking at it from a gamer's standpoint, I think I can see where you are coming from (and thus being NES instead of Famicom wouldn't really be as much of an issue).

Just to make a few comments before heading out for the day:

1)  I think the myth of poor quality needs to be stopped, at least concerning the bootlegged games from the late 80s and early 90s.  A lot of those products are very solid, almost equal to the real deal in quality, and as such, I would suspect some were even manufactured by the same companies, "after hours".  Also, some musicians encourage bootlegs (of their live concert performances, etc)

2)  Those adapters are also being made by the same companies that produce the bootlegs.  Now, there are some modern choices available, but 5 - 10 years ago the only adapters were from NTDEC, Honey Bee, etc, and they all made fake games.  The same mysterious companies.

3)  WIth the SMB2J bootlegs, we need to remember they were converted over from disk, thus the changes because of conversion of formats and also limitations back then.  Not really a good example, imo.

4)  I own an official Gimmick, it was just an example, but could be replaced with really any game.  I also feel that for a game officially released, it is a cop out method.

5)  These days, I think the morality of it is sort of a moot point, since it has been done and gone.  Many of the companies that made the boots were also manufacturing  licensed games.  Buying second hand, those companies aren't receiving money for this stuff any more, no matter how shady at the time.  And finally, the IP holders don't really care at this point either (and if it is just IP concerns, then original stuff like Tengen Tetris and Giana also fall into this category). 

Interesting thoughts though, and I guess we will just agree to disagree.  :)

Quote from: Ghegs on May 30, 2015, 11:43:44 am
(This came out longer than I expected...mods, please feel free to move it elsewhere.)
:fire:
I believe using bootlegged versions of anything (games, movies, music, etc) as replacement for the real thing is not acceptable. It disrespects the original and the people who created it, and you're most likely getting a shoddy product that will fall to bits sooner later than later, while possibly also giving money to unscrupulous companies who are only in it to make a quick, easy buck by copying and selling things that aren't theirs to sell. This is the only community I've ever seen that romanticizes bootlegs to this degree, though I do understand the historic reasons for being interested in Dendy and whatnot.

You seem to count acquiring Famicom pirate carts of NES-only games as option 4) on your list. I wouldn't, since the hardware is still basically the same and the games can be played easily with an adapter. Alternative format would be getting the game on another contemporary system (really want a Japanese copy The Immortal? Get the Genesis release, called "Wizard of Immortal") or a modern digital re-release. The Immortal isn't available on the Famicom, so I went and got the NES release. It's official, it's solid from a "historic perspective" and it doesn't have a build quality that makes me think the plastic will crack if I stare at it too intensely. The thought of getting a bootleg version never even crossed my mind.

I consider myself a gamer first and collector far second. Having a legit copy of the game matters to me from a moral perspective. Also, I want the gameplay to be what the originals creators intended, not what some Chinese programmer copying the game thought might make the game more fun (Super Contra 6 with its increased lives) or alter it in some way (how many SMB2J bootlegs are there that are missing the title screen, or Luigi's physics are wrong, or the wind doesn't work properly?). If it was a case where the game was literally, honestly, 100% impossible to acquire officially (and not just really difficult and/or expensive) like an unreleased title or a well-made hack, I would go for a modern repro in a heartbeat. At least then I know that the build quality is good, I get a faithful copy of the source material and I know who the money goes to.

If you don't have the money for the real thing - deal with it. Gaming can be an expensive hobby. Start saving your money if you really want that Gimmick and/or keep hunting for that reasonably priced one. You aren't entitled to have every single game you want.

As you can tell, my beef is largely with bootlegs of games that already have official NES or Famicom releases. Unlicensed games are a different thing in my opinion as at least the companies aren't copying someone else's work to pass as their own. I can't think of anything as insulting to a creative person as that. If you could interview The Immortal devs again and tell them some Chinese company stole their work, sold it as their own and the original creators never saw a penny of it, what do you think their response would be?

Again, I can understand collecting pirate carts as historic curiosities, But considering them as valid options to an official product, and presenting them as such, I can't understand.
Family Bits - Check Progress Below!

https://famicomfamilybits.wordpress.com

Ryo

Finds

Rockman Street Fighter  ;D