August 12, 2022, 05:06:03 am

Last Movie/Show You Saw?

Started by Doc, July 29, 2006, 11:13:57 pm

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ID415

Fist Of The North Star anime.

Jedi Master Baiter

I finally got around to seeing Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (also have only seen it once in theaters), and here's my consensus:

The Good:
even less Jar Jar
• awesome action sequences
• Nute Gunray gets killed (seriously, how is he not dead already?!)

The Bad:
• less Christopher Lee :(
• what the hell happened to Padme's character?!
• Obi Wan's hair/beard make him look like Al Borland
• the plot feels forced
• Hayden Christensen's acting still sucks

For some reason, I was less thrilled going into this than I was with the previous two Star Wars (both when watching it in theaters and now, rewatching them on DVD), and I now know why: read everything I said about Episode II. It was the first Star Wars movie I saw that didn't feel Star Warsy. Now the magic is gone. My expectations have shifted. It feels like just another action movie.

Now let's start from the top: War!

Who the hell wrote this? I always expected English major expertise when seeing the intro text crawl. What is this? Sparta?!

And who the hell is Grievous? Was that Count Dooku's Sith name? (I seriously couldn't remember back in 2002.) I didn't watch Clone Wars. I didn't know that was a prerequisite.

I maybe alone in this, but the entire CGI space fight at the beginning could've just been cut and we could've started with Obi Wan and Anakin entering the hostage chamber.

I've said this once, and I will say it again: only Darth Maul (and maybe the Padawans) made it cool doing flips. With Count Dooku it looks lame. He should've just floated down like Darth Vader does when falling.

I've come to hate the way General Grievous (and most villains) ham up their speech/mannerisms. And why is this guy always running? He arrives by ship on Utapau which takes God knows how long, and he immediately runs to talk to Darth Sidious. He saved, what? One minute?

But I have to admit, that multiple-wielding lightsabers thing was cool. Too bad he didn't do anything with it.

I found Palpatine's approach at gaining Anakin's trust pretty stupid: "Hey kid, wanna know about the dark side?" And Mace Windu's approach even stupider: "Stay here, kid. Daddy will take care of this without the need of Yoda."

And thus, this little scuffle leaves Sidious scarred for the rest of his long dictatorship. Or was he always like this? I don't care.

Rise Lord Vader. Where the hell did this name come from? What does it mean? Invader? Can we get a little background?

And suddenly Anakin is loyal to the Sith forever until Episode VI? Couldn't we have shortened some of the long-drawn out action sequences and focused on character development? Anakin's transformation was too sudden and not believable. Padme is reduced to a fragile damsel who needs saving and doesn't question anything when Anakin tells her the bad news of the Jedi and he must go kill some separatist douchebags (which some of them are honestly).

And then Palpatine enacts order 69 and kills my favorite Jedi, Ki-Adi-Mundi, who seemed more nobler than Yoda himself. Quick rant here: the Jedi suck. Their powers are obscured by the Sith, they can't get their boy, Anakin to trust them. They even talk shit behind his back: "Maybe the prophecy was bullshit!" <-- Mace Windu's exact lines verbatim. They indoctrinate children when they're too young to think for themselves.

If you ask me, the entire Mufasa Mustafar fight takes too long and ends too quickly. The Yoda and Sidious fight was made stupid because Sidious flips like a stupid idiot and they both use lightsabers. WHY DOES EVERYONE NEED TO USE LIGHTSABERS?

TLDR: I didn't like this movie like everyone else. I couldn't relate to the characters, and the plot felt like it was trying to connect a copper pipe to a USB port.

P

Heh, Vader is used in several Space Invader clones, like TV Vader and Battle Vader.

Anyway you pretty much sums up my own thoughts about the movie. Forced plot, too much insignificant action scenes (much like Jackson's Lord of the Rings films) and un unconvincing transformation to a Darth. It's more like a dumb action movie with a space theme, rather than a classic space opera.

The old movies hinted that Dart Vader had a dark and mysterious past which led him to be seduced by the dark side and made him to what he is today. Now when we finally get to see this dark past it appears that he was just a whiny little boy that had a little rough upbringing (but not really any different from many other characters, like Han Solo). So he really just had a very weak resolve? Really? That's not what it looked like initially in Epidosde I, and that's not it with Vader later either.
I can buy that Palpatine's rhetoric is simple because the persuasion is probably more about feelings than about logic, but he is still really just a whiny kid, not even convincingly mentally ill or anything.


BTW the scanning and cleaning of the last of the three old 35 mm films is almost done (project 4K77, 4K80 and 4K83). Only 4K80 (episode 5) is left. I for one am gonna watch these upscaled originals (with no DNR) sometime when they are done. It was a very long time ago I even saw the pre-Trilogy versions at all, and these are the original theater versions without Lucas Arts' filtering them for "modern" eyes.


Random useless trivia: In Swedish Star Wars is translated to "Stjärnornas Krig" which means "The War of the Stars" (a nod to The War of the Worlds). Also those black and white dots on a CRT TV when no channel is tuned in (TV static noise) is jokingly called "Myrornas Krig" which means "The War of the Ants". ;D

Protoman

I've always found it odd that so many people think Anakin turns at the drop of a hat. Why don't they include him as a kid being fearful, then losing his mom leading to his fear of losing Padme which he wants to become powerful to stop, Palpatine acts as his other mentor only he gives him much more of what he wants to hear over the jedi who mostly warn and scold him. He didn't want to cut Windus hand off but at that point he had to choose Palpatine over Windu, then it was too late to turn back so he went all in. I think it's fine?

Jedi Master Baiter

Going from being overprotective of Padme to killing a bunch of innocent children is a pretty big turn.

At least when he killed the Tuskens it was out of hate in the spur of the moment for what happened to his mother.

With the younglings, it was because Darth Mentor told him to. All we see from Anakin is distrust in the higher ranks.

I just can't get immersed in this character. I could understand Anakin going out and killing the separatists, because it would end the war once and for all.

They should have just had the kids killed off some other way: clone troopers? Darth Sidious himself? The writers even had to nerf Padme so Anakin could go to Mustafar. The Padme in Episodes I & II would have questioned his actions at that point. And perhaps not be so surprised that her fellow Nabooian who dismantled a Republic isn't such a good guy after all when Obi Wan tells her.

Epic_Lotus

I haven't rewatched Ep. 3 since I saw it at a midnight screening opening night.  At the time, I really didn't like it.  My biggest gripe with the prequel trilogy was (and still is) that there just wasn't enough actual space combat in STAR Wars.  The Battle over Coruscant started quite nicely, but we quickly lost that to the Jedi rescue mission.  I look at ANH and ROTJ as doing it right, where there were cuts to the bigger battle interspersed with the close-ups and human moments. 

In the years since, as The Clone Wars has come out and they've filled in a lot of detail about Anakin's fall, I figure I'll appreciate it a lot more when I eventually get around to a rewatch.  It's just too bad the Clone Wars series came AFTER the films.  As an independent trilogy, it still gets a big "meh" from me. 

Also, The Phantom Menace is my favorite of the three.  :P

adori_12

Barely watch any movies or shows, but there's one in particular that currently has me hooked.

Oddtaxi is a weird anime; with anthropomorphic animals, mystery, charming scenes, crime solving, and amazing dialogue, it manages to be one of the most entertaining shows I've ever watched. Some of you might cherish anime in general a whole lot more than I, so perhaps you have more interesting things to say about it than me, but if you haven't watched it, please do! You won't regret it. ;)

ID415

Just started the Guyver series again. Up to the third volume.

Saab93


Sentientprism

The end of Evangelion
It was amazing!
Anyone remember the name of that weird Japanese NES?

ID415

Demon City Shinjuku is the last show I've seen. I've just acquired Detonator Orgun and it'll be my next.

Jedi Master Baiter

July 05, 2022, 12:12:57 am #2456 Last Edit: July 08, 2022, 12:08:54 am by Jedi Master Baiter
Okay, I know I've only ranted about the prequel trilogy, but I just finished Return of the Jedi and I feel like this deserves a rant as well. I always felt that everyone's rating of this was lesser than New Hope and Empire Strikes Back, but I never read any in depth analysis about it, and I'd like to get my opinion out before delving into everyone else's:

The Good:
-the Endor forest setting (in contrast to ANH Tattoine & ESB Hoth)
-Luke's conflict in trying to convert his father back
-Ian McDiarmid's excellent performance
-Ewoks are cute :D

The Bad:
-Jabba's palace scene has cheap-looking aliens
-new Death Star? *yawn*
-every Imperial officer has the same rank? ???
-cute Ewoks killing Stormtroopers :-\

The Odd:
-first time 'TIE Fighters' are mentioned in name
-Ewoks are not mentioned in name
-'Wicket' is only mentioned in the credits
-female rebel pilot is given a male dubbed voice
-random objects in space

The title: Return of the Jedi... okay, I did read someone's opinion of this. They said that it has a possible double meaning: the Jedi have returned as an organization or Darth Vader returns from the dark side back as a Jedi. I never realized this. :o

I could make an entire essay from the opening credits to the sail barge rescue, but I'll condense it: Luke shows his recklessness. He chooses to be diplomatic, but in doing so, puts others in danger. It's a bit of a character flaw, but whatevs. I'm more interested in what's fundamentally wrong about the Jabba scenes from a production standpoint:

How the hell did Lando get in there? Did Boba Fett not see him? Was he there only for a few days? Who was the guard he replaced?

The aliens in the Max Rebo band segment looked really cheap; especially that blue elephant thing (I don't know his name), Snootles looked okay, and Salacious B. Crumb was a muppet. I think I saw the special edition scene with Jedi Rocks for the first time yesterday and I wasn't impressed, but that's an entirely different post/essay. The thing is... this is 6 years AFTER A New Hope and George still can't manage to make something like this look impressive? I know he was trying to keep the budget low, but couldn't he have just hired Rick Baker to make original monsters this time?

Han Solo wanting to die and get it over with... ;D I love how meta this is.

Boba Fett getting owned by a blind Han Solo... :( So what happened to all the badassery from ESB? Are you telling me the entire Empire is going to be nerfed as well? More on that later...

I like how Luke insists that there is still good in Anakin even though Obi Wan disagrees. In the prequels I felt everyone was too quick to dismiss Anakin and here, too! ;D

Is it just me, or does Leia seem downgraded from a leader to simple female protagonist? During the briefing, she's just sitting there with the A-team (Lando, Han, Chewie, while Luke shows up), she gets "captured" on Endor, and doesn't have any great victory speech/awards to hand out in a ceremony at the end of the film--who's in charge again? Edit: Mon Mothma? Got it.

After the sail barge, Harrison Ford's acting is so unenthusiastic. It's almost like he didn't want to be here and would rather be doing Temple of Doom or something.

The first time I watched this as a 10-year old, it was the first Star Wars I actually got bored at, some time at the speeder bikes. I don't know why. This scene wasn't impressive to me and still isn't. The only part that looked cool was the first person view of speeding shots between the trees.

Luke tells Leia she's his sister in a somewhat creepy way. I mean, look at the way he says it in this scene--it's so weird! And I was so disappointed in her response: "Somehow, I know." Yeah, sure you did. A few seconds ago, you were appalled that Vader was Luke's father--wait, ??? does this mean when he told her, she was appalled that Vader was HER father? Also, she had memories of her mother, but Luke doesn't. Either this was retconned by the prequels or she has very unusual force memories or something.

I liked the Ewoks, but was there a way we could have them AND wookies? Or more competent fighters? How they take out Stormtroopers with rocks and slings is just humiliating. My favorite parts were 1) when they were trying to stop an ATST by roping one of its legs and failing, and 2) when two Ewoks and Chewy landed on top of an ATST, lured an Imperial officer out, and Chewy threw him off.

The convo between Luke and Vader was really well done. Except what was Luke expecting Anakin to do when he left with him? Hide? Vader said something along the lines of "the dark side is too powerful" that he "must obey my master." which to me made him seem weak. The "It's too late for me" line really hit hard.

How the hell did the ambush on the rebel fleet even happen? Where did all those imperial ships come from? Was that ever explained? The space was completely empty save for Death Star 2.0 beta and some Star Destroyers. Were they cloaked? Did they hyperspace into their faces?

I was happy to see Admiral (now Captain?) Piett return, albeit a small role now.

Is there somewhere I can read about the whole Imperial wardrobe malfunction that reduced everyone to the rank of Captain? I just find this blunder funny is all. I mean, if George can go back and CGI in aliens why not fix the rank insignia?

Death Star blows up, Empire = defeated. Wait, what? What about the rest of the fleet? What about the capital? What about the Empire's presence in the far reaches of the galaxy? I guess the Emperor was micro-mind-controlling every imperial employee down to the toilet scrubber.

I'd like to think the imperial officers that were captured on Endor were either tried for crimes or converted to Rebels depending on rank, but since we never see them again, I assumed the Ewoks ate 'em.

It's a feel good ending, but it works. I don't think I would have liked Gary Kurtz's dark direction either. I feel if Kurtz and Lucas could have compromised, we'd have had a far better conclusion to the trilogy than we'd ever gotten.

This film concludes the Star Wars saga for me--the sequel trilogy is a Disney byproduct, and I feel sorry that John Williams' effort and talent were wasted on it.

P

Yeah Return of the Jedi seems less popular of the 3 first movies. This is the movie that I have seen the most (because we had it recorded on tape for a long time, a version that were broadcasted on TV before Trilogy existed) and I think it's arguably the best movie of the 3. There is not much Obi-Wan nor Yoda here, but it has so many other good things like Jabba the Hut (I was quite scared of him and his henchmen as a kid), a fight with a Rancor, Endor and the ewoks of course (Wicket is great), the robot duo being as good as ever, plenty of good starship and lightsaber fights, "Det luktar flingor här", Ian McDiarmid's acting indeed and Luke's training finally bearing fruit turning him badass. The final battle between Luke, Vader and the emperor is also fantastic. It's not just as a contest of swordsmanship or wits anymore but also a battle of heart.

I've always preferred this new Death Star over the earlier one from A New Hope. Here they actually has to fly into a narrow duct to reach the core instead of simply sending a space torpedo into a vent and suddenly the whole base is destroyed. Though they did explain that this was extremely difficult to do, and this time it wasn't even done by someone force-sensitive, so it might not actually had been harder once the shields were down.

I really don't like the new CG from Star Wars Trilogy and later versions of the film. The muppets and blue elephant (although who looks very much like a cheap stuffed toy) are not part of that and they are fine in my book, some of the dolls (like Yoda) are even played by muppet/Sesame Street puppeteers. But in Trilogy they added som new CG singers or something that looks like they comes from a Pixar CG movie. Thumbs down to that.

I whole-heartily agree that Boba Fett doesn't get as much of a big role as he should have had. He is basically just the lone elite bodyguard of a maffia-boss so I don't find it unconvincing that he gets beaten by the best generals among the rebels, but I would really have loved to see more of him in action. He is a pretty cool boss in Star Wars games like Shadows of the Empire for the Nintendo 64 where you have to fight him using a jetpack.
In the film he does indeed gets defeated by Solo's dumb luck when turning around, they could have made him a little more capable there.

Well Obi-Wan had a long time to make up his mind about Vader by now, so he is not really quick to judge. He was the one that bought in Anakin against Yoda's recommendations and witnessed him turning to the dark side. He also says that he is more machine than human now as a reason for him to be beyond any help (no hinting of a whiny brat killing children on a whim when he were still human).
In Episode I they mainly seemed to think Anakin were too old to be trained. A Jedi-Knight is a very powerful warrior so it's important that they can control their temper and feelings (which Anakin never mastered). Of course, Luke were much older when he were trained but they didn't have much choice at that time.

Leia's position as a princess does indeed seem to matter less in this movie,
or at least you don't see her doing any princessy stuff. She also lost her role as a love interest for Luke. I was a bit disappointed as a kid as I thought Luke was the coolest character and the hero who I always rooted for, and would have preferred a Luka-Leia-shipping ending, but it did put an interesting twist on the Luke-Solo rivalry without anyone of the three having to become a looser.

Her original princess role comes from the time when Star Wars was still supposed to be a space-opera remake of Akira Kurosawa's Kakushi Toride no San Akunin (which I also highly recommend especially if you like Star Wars) where two scoundrel peasants (Luke and Solo) are reluctantly helping a samurai "princess" (Leia) over a border after her home prefecture is invaded by a neighboring samurai clan.
But it's downplayed to a point that she no longer seems to be considered much of a princess after the first movie. It's not as bad as in Episode II when Padme straight out says that she is just a senator on a limited term of office rather than being real royalty, but it's a bit similar indeed.

I don't agree that the Speeder Bike scene was anything but exciting. It's one of the scenes I remembered the most as a kid.

I like how the ewoks are able to be both cute and cuddly and fierce warriors. They use primitive weapons but are able to fight storm troopers using cunning guerilla tactics. The rebels walked into a trap here so they would probably not have won if it weren't for their newfound allies in the ewoks, I don't find that weird at all.
AT-ST and AT-AT are powerful imperial weapons, but their weakness has always been their legs. In Episode IV the rebels defeats AT-ATs by ensnaring their legs with the tow-cables equipped on the Snowspeeders, and here the ewoks uses wines or logs to trip up the AT-STs. I do find it a bit weird that they are so easy to defeat by tripping.

Regarding the ambush, the emperor foresees the rebels' plan from the beginning. He orders to send his fleet to the "far side of Endor" where it will stay until it's called for, so it was easy to do a pincer attack once the rebels came close to the Death Star 2.0 beta (which turns out being fully operational) where probably the rest of the fleet stayed hidden.
After Luke surrenders to the empire (thinking it might help the rebels from staying undetected) the emperor explains to him (which doubles as a plan to increase Luke's hatred so he can be taken to the dark side) that the rebels where merely walking straight into his trap, and that he had leaked the location of the shield generator to the rebels himself. He had also prepared a legion of his best troops on Endor to ambush them there too, so that the shield generator wouldn't be endangered. Though he clearly underestimated the rebels and the ewoks (Luke points out that his overconfidence is his weakness).

The empire of course isn't defeated after the final battle, but with their main fleet and death star destroyed and especially their loss of two Sith leaders makes this easily the biggest victory the rebels has won so far. The empire still holds a lot of power and continues resist the rebels after this film, there are a lot of material that depicts these battles other than the new movies, including games and comic books.


BTW the 35 mm film cleaning projects 4K77, 4K83 and now finally 4K80 were done in February this year so we now finally have complete high quality digital versions of the untouched classic versions of the movie that Lucas Arts tried to erase from history.

Jedi Master Baiter

Wow, this is probably the Episode we differ the most in opinion.

The Jabba the Hutt atmosphere was great, as well as Jabba himself. I read some people would've preferred a human Jabba, but I'd beg to differ. Wasn't he based on Marlo Brando anyway? :P

In fact, the Jabba part was so great I think it outdid the Empire as a threat. I felt like Empire Strikes Back was the only Star Wars where they were scary. In New Hope, only Vader felt like the only imposing threat.

Quotelightsaber fights
You mean lightsaber fight (singular)? The battle barge was a monstrosity. There should have been more collateral damage than just Luke's fake hand. Han Solo should have gotten burnt by Boba Fett's jetpack. Lando should have fallen into the Sarlac. ;D

I have an issue with Luke's training (not only here, but in Empire Strikes back as well): when and with whom did he do his training with in between films? Obi Wan died in Star Wars and barely taught Luke, so when did he learn how to force grab his objects (in the Wampa's Lair)? If Luke had been training with Yoda after Empire Strikes Back, he would've asked him about his father then, not now when Yoda was dying. He also asked Obi Wan why he didn't tell him, indicating he hasn't seen Obi Wan since.

I shouldn't be too harsh on Obi Wan abandoning Anakin. He was the only one who really had his back when the rest of the Jedi were calling the prophecy "bullshit." <-- especially Mace. I think he had a personal vendetta against him. He always responded to his fire with more fire. :fire: "Take a seat, mother****er!" (I think that's what he said ???)

Anyway, somehow Kakushi Toride no San Akunin escaped me. I've added it to my movie list.

I don't know why the Speeder Bike scene doesn't do it for me. Maybe the Battle of Hoth scene was so great, that it didn't match it for me.

The Ewoks, I felt, were utilized improperly. They're small. They're weaker. But they're cunning and they know the land. It would've been nice to see stormtroopers walking into traps just like the rebel team did. Or some snake pits (or whatever they had) hidden by forest debris. They were cute, but they should've been scary like the Vietcong. Apparently they had swamps. Could you imagine imperial walkers / troops falling into these and getting mauled?

The fleet ambush makes sense I guess. It just would've been cooler to see the imperial ships emerge (from Star Destroyers? From the Death Star? Hyperspace in? Were cloaking devices a thing?) instead of suddenly appearing in a cut.

As for the emperor leaking the shield generator location: this entire film is essentially rehashing elements from New Hope before The Force Awakens did:

• the Death Star Plans getting into the hands of the Rebels = shield generator leak (also letting the Millennium Falcon escape)
• C3PO and R2 walking alone on Tattooine
• Jabba Hutt scene = Mos Eisley cantina
Sarlacc = Mynok cave (no, wait, that was Empire Strikes Back :-[ )
• Death Star
• Emperor Palpatine = Grand Moff Tarkin (but better!)
• Rebel Fleet space climax
• Death Star 'splodes

I felt like John William knew this, so he rehashed lots of cues from New Hope, specifically the TIE Fighter Attack theme that constantly plays that main Star Wars heroic cue that drives me nuts! >:(

Of course, the Empire isn't defeated at the end yet. And apparently the special edition has additional scenes, including Coruscant, which I don't think I've seen yet. I'm not sure if this makes the ending better or wonkier? :-\

QuoteBTW the 35 mm film cleaning projects 4K77, 4K83 and now finally 4K80 were done in February this year so we now finally have complete high quality digital versions of the untouched classic versions of the movie that Lucas Arts tried to erase from history.
This is great news!

P

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmWow, this is probably the Episode we differ the most in opinion.
Yeah well this episode has a special place in my heart, and it's the one I've seen the most of all. I only had this one taped for many years as a kid.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmThe Jabba the Hutt atmosphere was great, as well as Jabba himself. I read some people would've preferred a human Jabba, but I'd beg to differ. Wasn't he based on Marlo Brando anyway? :P
Yeah I agree that he should keep his gross slimeball appearance. He is like a personification of the greed of an evil mafia boss.
There is this deleted scene in A New Hope where Jabba is a humanoid before they came up with Jabba's final appearance. The actor was replaced by a CG hutt in new versions that included the scene. Solo saying "Jabba, you are a wonderful human being" perhaps wasn't Solo being ironic after all, at least not all of it.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmIn fact, the Jabba part was so great I think it outdid the Empire as a threat. I felt like Empire Strikes Back was the only Star Wars where they were scary. In New Hope, only Vader felt like the only imposing threat.
Yeah that's true. In fact, the empire failed all their plans so badly that the rebels would have won even if Luke had failed. Destroying the Deathstar would probably kill both Vader and the emperor anyway (but Luke baiting Vader there was necessary or he would probably jump into a tie-fighter and intervene). Unless Papa Palpatine would have a bad feeling about it and get out in the last moment, in an ufo while laughing maniacally Dr. Wily-style or something.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pm
Quote from: undefinedlightsaber fights
You mean lightsaber fight (singular)? The battle barge was a monstrosity. There should have been more collateral damage than just Luke's fake hand. Han Solo should have gotten burnt by Boba Fett's jetpack. Lando should have fallen into the Sarlac. ;D
Well there is only one lightsaber duel but Luke uses his lightsaber some in other fights too, and he feels much more at home with it than in previous films. The duel with Vader is the best so far, much better and with more spirit than the one in A New Hope where it looks like Vader and Obi-Wan are trying out a new choreography for the first time.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmI have an issue with Luke's training (not only here, but in Empire Strikes back as well): when and with whom did he do his training with in between films? Obi Wan died in Star Wars and barely taught Luke, so when did he learn how to force grab his objects (in the Wampa's Lair)? If Luke had been training with Yoda after Empire Strikes Back, he would've asked him about his father then, not now when Yoda was dying. He also asked Obi Wan why he didn't tell him, indicating he hasn't seen Obi Wan since.
A movie is very limited how many scenes they can show so boring everyday scenes like his daily training are shown very little of. I think he was training under both Obi-Wan and Yoda for quite some time, and Obi-Wan's spirit continued to guide him after his death. Once taught the basics, he can probably train alone. He could learn the force techniques at any time during his training, and he does train that further at Yoda's by pulling up his ship.

But even if we disregard the fact that Luke didn't ask about his father despite training with Yoda everyday, it still doesn't really add up. Because if you assume jedi-knight training is about as long as a normal knight's training, which means training full-time since early childhood physically, mentally and spiritually, Luke did become a powerful jedi comparable to Vader (who did get proper jedi training since early childhood) way too quick considering how little everyone aged.
Now the Skywalker family are exceptionally talented in the force, so him progressing faster than normal could maybe be explained, but that applies to Vader as well.

But then again, in the end it was his good heart that made him win rather than his fighting techniques and his raw force powers. He did beat Vader at the lightsaber at one point, but only after Vader got several opportunities to kill Luke but couldn't because of his internal struggle.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmI don't know why the Speeder Bike scene doesn't do it for me. Maybe the Battle of Hoth scene was so great, that it didn't match it for me.
Well the speederbike scene is a pretty small racing scene compared to the other ones in the series, and certainly not comparable to Battle of Hoth. But still they are neat bikes at high speed in a lush forest, and the excitement that they need to eliminate all scouttroopers before they can sound the alarm.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmThe Ewoks, I felt, were utilized improperly. They're small. They're weaker. But they're cunning and they know the land. It would've been nice to see stormtroopers walking into traps just like the rebel team did. Or some snake pits (or whatever they had) hidden by forest debris. They were cute, but they should've been scary like the Vietcong. Apparently they had swamps. Could you imagine imperial walkers / troops falling into these and getting mauled?
Sure I can imagine them tricking a stoormtrooper into a swamp, but on the other hand they are the ones attacking the imperial base. Surely the imperial forces knows the terrain around their own base.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmThe fleet ambush makes sense I guess. It just would've been cooler to see the imperial ships emerge (from Star Destroyers? From the Death Star? Hyperspace in? Were cloaking devices a thing?) instead of suddenly appearing in a cut.
I see, yeah there were no scene where they appeared. I assume they stayed out of sight (however you do that in space) and speeded in once the rebels came closer to the Deathstar. Star Destroyers were there if I'm not mistaken, and smaller ships like Tie-fighters/-bombers emerges out of them since they are not suitable for longer space travels.
I suppose cloaking is also possible. They did mention that they jammed the rebels' sensors which probably helped in the sneak attack ("how can they be jamming us if they don't know... ...that we are coming?").
But yeah ideally they would have showed a scene where a space armada would appear out of nowhere. This is one of those scenes that goes past really fast and it's quite hard to follow the story unless you've seen the movie a zillion times. The new movies also does this a lot.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmAs for the emperor leaking the shield generator location: this entire film is essentially rehashing elements from New Hope before The Force Awakens did:

• the Death Star Plans getting into the hands of the Rebels = shield generator leak (also letting the Millennium Falcon escape)
• C3PO and R2 walking alone on Tattooine
• Jabba Hutt scene = Mos Eisley cantina
Sarlacc = Mynok cave (no, wait, that was Empire Strikes Back :-[ )
• Death Star
• Emperor Palpatine = Grand Moff Tarkin (but better!)
• Rebel Fleet space climax
• Death Star 'splodes
Yeah I guess there is no need to change a winning concept. But this time we got a more final conclusion instead of Vader escaping in a special tie-fighter.


Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on July 10, 2022, 07:12:22 pmOf course, the Empire isn't defeated at the end yet. And apparently the special edition has additional scenes, including Coruscant, which I don't think I've seen yet. I'm not sure if this makes the ending better or wonkier? :-\
Really? I don't think I've seen that one. I've seen the original of course, Trilogy and then a newer version where Anakin's old-man-spirit takes the form of a whiny brat, but I don't remember any additional scenes.