I thought I'd start a little convo about what your most difficult game experience is on the Famicom.
One game that I think is just waaay too difficult is Metroid! I like the game, but the biggest flaw with it is when you die, you only start with 30 energy, no matter how many tanks you have. Because of this, I can never get anywhere unless I'm lucky and didn't die already. I've only beaten the NES version with a password for unlimited health or something.
Rockman( any one) I love the character , design everything but I teetotally stink at them, and super mario 2 just got it yesterday took an hour to beat the first level....the first level, so yea I pretty much suck
I like Rockman games too, but can't beat some of the Willy stage bosses!! And I suck at Doki Doki Panic, I can't ever get passed world 3, or world 4 without the warp.
I literally got that in today ;D I never played it before but in my younger days I did finish Super Mario 2 for the NES . I hope mine works scared to try it as it seems pretty hard to find
There was another thread about this. If you really think the above mentioned games are the hardest you have played, then you should try Makai Mura or Battletoads.
I have no problem with most platform games but shmups are quite hard for me.
I have Maikaimura and that game is definitely the hardest game out there. Also played Battletoads on 2 player, had an experience just like the AVGN :-[
Great Battle Cyber last few levels is damn near impossible
Ren and Stimpy
Built to win (formula one races)
Cocorun (final level)
Star Wars (Namco)
Roadman Cycle Master (later levels)
Cloud master
Gradius II
Battletoads and double dragon the ultimate team
pocahontas
Ninja Gaiden II ( Last Level)
Ninja Gaiden III (last level)
the punisher
fighting hero
Dark man
Bart meets radioactiveman
rush n attack
ultimate air combat
to name a few I classify as my hardest.
Final Mission, undoubtedly.
I have a new "hardest famicom games".
Demon Sword - Fudou Myouou Den, the Japanese version.
I challenge any hardcore famicom gamer on the forum to try and beat it. You probably can't read swedish but you can check the videos, especially 2-1: http://japanspel.wordpress.com/2014/03/29/kamen-no-ninja-och-fudou-myououden-till-famicom/
Be prepared to die a lot.
Also played two weird famicom games recently that would be impossible without a walkthrough.
http://japanspel.blogspot.com/2014/04/hana-no-star-kaidou-and-romancia-for.html
I can believe that, P. The US version of Demon Sword is pretty rough, and you get a life bar in that version.
I just beat Mission: Impossible (NES), and that is probably the toughest game I've ever beaten. Ninja Crusaders is definitely an honorable mention here, too, but it's a much shorter game to play through.
Arkanoid is definitely a beast too, because of its length, difficulty (even with a Vaus controller), and the fact that there are no legit continues in the game. Unless you're using a cheat code, you have to complete that mofo on one credit.
I wouldn't call Metroid or the Rockman games "easy," but I'd put them fairly low on the NES library's difficulty scale. The hardest game in my collection, I think, is a little FC gem called Transformers: Convoy no Nazo. It's well into kusoge territory, but I have to give props to a game where, if you don't already know what's happening, you will die immediately.
The first rockman is pretty hard, from what I have heard. I haven't played it myself. The others aren't exactly super hard, no.
To me it is mainly about endurance. Starting the game knowing "alright, first all these 8 or whatever stages, with bosses (some very hard with blaster), then some "extra" stages, then wily stages, then the bosses again, then Dr Wily " takes the air out of me.
Apparently, Transformers is beatable as long as you use the continue cheat. AVGN beat it, so it can't be super hard (although he said it was the hardest game he beat), but definitely beatable.
I once tried Holy Diver, now there's a hard game. Very few people beat it even if it has infinite continues. I somewhat admire it because it is like a work of art, but I also hate it because it is just too cruel. I won't be trying it again.
Yes, I have tried Arkanoid. Uh, games with no continues are just sucky. I can hardly make it past the first 2-3 stages even with the analog controller. Are there really people who can play these games?
Now you say there is a continue cheat, that counts to me as being somwhat legit. Just as the Konami code is somewhat legit way of beating Contra (like "easy" mode).
Even I'll admit that continue codes count. Some games are just way too hard to be reliably completed on one credit (take Shinobi and its randomness, for example) so continuing is nothing to be ashamed of... within reason, of course. If you're continuing 30 times to complete a game, you probably should just consider getting better at it.
Also, the Rockman games are all easy, no clue why anyone would think that the original is less easy than the rest. If I had to pick one, I'd say 2 is the hardest due to having one of the most poorly designed bosses in history. (The Boobeam trap)
It's rough in competitions like the Nintendo Age challenge, because continue codes are forbidden. That means someone has to beat Arkanoid on one credit, which instantly makes it one of the ten biggest chores in the entire NES catalog. Beating Transformers (FC) on one credit would be a similar nightmare.
I also don't find the Rockman/Mega Man series that rough, but I did play the crap out of them growing up. I do think the first one is the toughest of the lot, though. The Yellow Devil and Wily bosses are fairly stiff for a game without E-tanks, unless you're exploiting the pause glitch. And even the levels have a little bit of extra nastiness to them: from the number of hits required to defeat enemies like Sniper Joe and especially Big Eye, to the fact that the momentary invincibility-while-stunned won't save you from death spikes, MM1 is definitely more brutal than its sequels.
And I kind of enjoy the wall lazer boss in Mega Man 2; it's definitely original. Though I've probably only beaten it on the first try once... it's much easier to blow up the barriers, get yourself killed, and restock your Crash Bombs for the rematch after respawning.
Quote from: Nightstar699 on April 16, 2014, 03:55:46 pm
Even I'll admit that continue codes count. Some games are just way too hard to be reliably completed on one credit (take Shinobi and its randomness, for example) so continuing is nothing to be ashamed of...
Finishing a game with continues doesn't count as having beaten it legitimately. 1CC or nothing, everything else is just practice.
I beg to differ, that's a completely subjective personal standard. To some people, simply playing a game to the end and seeing the ending counts as it being beaten. Me, personally? I don't consider a game mastered until I can consistently 1CC it, if not no-death it... but that's just me, I wouldn't fault someone for having to use continues on a game, nor would it make their completion any less valid. It just wouldn't make it a "one-credit" completion.
I consider a game beaten as long as you beat it without using any kind of cheat devices or anything. Using lives and continues are just part of the rules of the game. Using built-in cheat codes may be considered cheating as well, but it may also fix a broken game sometimes. Beating a game without using continues is just totally owning the game.
Most people have played so much Rockman so they can't be considered hard anymore. But on a relative scale they may be considered fairly hard. I don't see why Rockman 1 is harder than any other game, just because of no passwords? That only makes it require more time at hand, since you need to beat it in one sitting. It doesn't really make it harder. It's much shorter than all the other games and most bosses are easier than in later games.
I'm still amazed how action game master Nightstar still considers Rockman 2 to be hardest, which I consider the easiest. That wall laser boss is really the only hard part in that game IMHO. And it's more frustrating than hard, since if you mess up you'll have to get yourself killed one continue to restore your weapons. Rockman 7 is maybe the hardest mostly because of how much harder Dr Wily has become since all earlier games.
Of course it's subjective, but limiting the amount of credits used is what gives many of these games their replayability and longevity. And many games allow continuing from right where you died, so some players just creditfeed through, call the game beaten and pronounce that "these games are so easy, I beat them on my first try". If they're content with that, then that's their prerogative, but I call that playing the game wrong, plain and simple.
The concept of credits is so foreign to gamers nowadays that the whole idea of not continuing is completely alien to some, which in turn makes them judge old games with the wrong criteria. That's a damn shame. So whenever the topic arises, I make it a point to promote the 1CC philosophy.
Yeah I guess you can't call a game easy if you keep exploiting continues all the time. Dying a life is more ok because it usually means you haven't lost yet, but using a continue is like admitting defeat and then trying again.
I see that you think the wall beam boss in Rockman 2 is hard in this way, because you are forced to use at least one continue if you either mess up or arrive at it without enough weapon energy.
I think there's a fine line between credit-feeding and simply continuing within reason. When I think of credit-feeding, I think of someone with little to no understanding of how to play, and continuing until they eventually get lucky enough times to finish a game. That's a very poor way to play, but everyone has to start somewhere. For a personal example, the first time I beat Bucky O' Hare, I continued like a mad man. Then, by replaying it time and time again, I reached the point where I could beat it without continuing... and then without picking up extra lives, and so on. For games with a heavy emphasis on trial-and-error, credit-feeding is what I'd consider "for practice", y'know, just to memorize the game and learn it a bit more... I certainly wouldn't be satisfied with it, nor would I consider it a victory, but it's a start.
On the other hand, if someone makes a few mistakes along the way and has to use a continue, eh, I still see it as a legitimate victory so long as they still demonstrate knowledge of the game, and are willing to improve further. I guess ultimately one's personal standard for what qualifies as a "victory" lies in their skill level.
Finally, I'd never label a game as being "easy" if I can't beat it on one life consistently. I love when people label Guevara as an easy game, simply because you can infinitely continue from where you left off. In that case, they should try limiting themselves to however many credits they'd spend on it at an arcade. I guarantee for most people, it'd become a whole lot less easy.
Quote from: P on April 17, 2014, 01:51:08 am
I consider a game beaten as long as you beat it without using any kind of cheat devices or anything. Using lives and continues are just part of the rules of the game. Using built-in cheat codes may be considered cheating as well, but it may also fix a broken game sometimes. Beating a game without using continues is just totally owning the game.
Most people have played so much Rockman so they can't be considered hard anymore. But on a relative scale they may be considered fairly hard. I don't see why Rockman 1 is harder than any other game, just because of no passwords? That only makes it require more time at hand, since you need to beat it in one sitting. It doesn't really make it harder. It's much shorter than all the other games and most bosses are easier than in later games.
I'm still amazed how action game master Nightstar still considers Rockman 2 to be hardest, which I consider the easiest. That wall laser boss is really the only hard part in that game IMHO. And it's more frustrating than hard, since if you mess up you'll have to get yourself killed one continue to restore your weapons. Rockman 7 is maybe the hardest mostly because of how much harder Dr Wily has become since all earlier games.
Would you believe I've never played Rockman 7 to this day? It sickens me as a huge Rockman fan. I look forward to the time comes where I do battle with the new and improved "difficult" Wily. Because he sure was a pushover in the first 6... although I've been enjoying X4 a lot lately, and Sigma certainly isn't a joke, there.
The first time I played that Dry Wily I thought he was near impossible to beat, and used continues like there's no tomorrow. Nowdays I think he is a very enjoyable boss, and it gives you a rush to fight and successfully beat him. Even if you remember his pattern by heart, it takes very exact timing and speed of jumps and slides to dodge his beams.
Dr Wily in both Rockman 7 and 8 reminds more of Sigma than previous Dr Wilies in terms of shear difficulty.
That sounds like my type of boss battle... and why do so many people shit on Rockman 7, again? It looks and sounds amazing from the footage I viewed. Could the increased difficulty be looked at as unappealing to some?
Rockman 7 is this weird in-between Rockman and Rockman X graphically. I'm sure that's part of the problem. It looks unappealing.
When it was released, everyone had eyes on Rockman X2, so it didn't get as much attention as it could have. I was also slightly disappointed when I played it the first time, probably because it felt like a step backward (sliding instead of dashing like in the X series etc).
Now I don't see why I had reason to be disappointed anymore. It's a great game, visually it's beautiful with lots of sparkling colours and musically it's on par with most other Rockman games.