Famicom World

Family Computer => Famicom / Disk System => Topic started by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 12:02:49 pm

Title: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 12:02:49 pm
I own two famicon clones. And none is working. One is just a PolyStation. A nice day I decided to play a game with it, I plugged it, but I got no image. Instead of that, a I got a  "burned" smell. RIP.

The other one is older, and is also not working for a longer time. First I got some problems with the RF output (it was broken inside), then one of the wires which connects the power switch to the DC input got unsoldered. Worse: the strip which connects  the two cards is now broken.

Now I'd like to correct the mess, but I'd like to make sure where should I solder the wire. And I think the first step is identifying it, so I can ask other owners some photos.

In one of the cards I can see "NTDE" followed by a pac-man and three dots. I've already seen this logo in another clone, I suppose it's the manufacturer. Joysticks are hard wired and have no microphone.

I'm attaching some photos.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 12:07:50 pm
Man that Famiclone makes me jealous, it looks EXACTLY like a Famicom (except the joysticks). Check the LM7805 voltage regulator (or if it doesn't have one, the diode-resistor-transistor combination used to lower the voltage). Check if 5V are reaching the CPU board and also check the transistor pairs used to amplify the video and audio signals. Usually one in the pair goes bad leaving you with a black screen and/or no audio.

If you can send hi-rez pictures of the insides, I can help you with the ribbon cable placement.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 02:07:16 pm
Quote from: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 12:07:50 pm
Man that Famiclone makes me jealous, it looks EXACTLY like a Famicom (except the joysticks). Check the LM7805 voltage regulator (or if it doesn't have one, the diode-resistor-transistor combination used to lower the voltage). Check if 5V are reaching the CPU board and also check the transistor pairs used to amplify the video and audio signals. Usually one in the pair goes bad leaving you with a black screen and/or no audio.


My problem now is one of the red cables which connects to the power switch, when it got desoldered, I should have wrote or draw somewhere where was it soldered.

Quote from: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 12:07:50 pm
If you can send hi-rez pictures of the insides, I can help you with the ribbon cable placement.


I am attaching some pictures. Unfortunately I have no way to take better pictures. These were taken with my cellphone.

My problem with the cable is being able to solder it. I think I know where it is supposed to be. In "all_inside.jpg", between the two cards, on the left.

BTW, as you can see, this clone comes with a builtin card, with Super Mario Bros, Donkey Kong, Bomber Man, Sqoon, Arkanoid, and another games. It has around 1000 entries. Repeated ones. But at least each one loads a different level for each game.  The cartridge is the one which is at the left on "all_inside.jpg".
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 02:09:06 pm
Photos of the "small card"
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: satoshi_matrix on June 22, 2007, 02:10:29 pm
Reminds me of a Famiclone I had much like this, but it said "Family TV Game" and featurd AV Output. The system did work, but it ultimtely was just a clone. I wanted the real deal. So I sold mine on ebay to some smuck who said he collected Famiclones, and I used the money to buy myself a real Nintendo made AV Famicom. In retrospect I kind of regreat selling the clone as it was a cool reminder of how widespread piracy is.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 02:27:04 pm
What sort of AV output? Two connectors (audio and video)?

In "small_card_2.jpg", the connectors are: RF (top), video, audio, DC input (bottom).

I've browsed the gallery at http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones.htm (http://ultimateconsoledatabase.com/famiclones.htm) but I found nothing. There were some Famicom-like, but with different joysticks.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 03:40:30 pm
Check attached picture for soldering location of the loose red wire.

Also, judging by the pictures, it appears that your Famiclone is positive tip (Famiclones are usually negative tip, the NES wants AC but also works with negative tip DC). Check, double check and triple check the polarity before plugging in.

P.S: Your Famiclone has REAL ICs. None of that NES-on-a-chip ASIC gloptop shit. I'm even more jealous <drools at Famiclone>
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 03:43:58 pm
Forget the part about the positive tip. It IS negative tip.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 04:09:27 pm
Thanks for the help with the wire, I'll solder that and try to get around the ribbon cable.

About the "tip", I've been using these cheap adaptors which allow we to choose the settings, configured for 9V+.

This makes it a positive tip or negative tip one?

And here goes a photo of the orignal adaptor. Not working anymore, but still here around.

Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 04:24:20 pm
That makes it positive tip. The little arrow on the polarity dial of the transformer (or the polarity switch) must point to ( - ) for use with a Famiclone.

About the ribbon cable, there should only be four wires between the two 'cards' : +5V, ground, weak audio and weak video signal. +5V and ground should be easy to find with a multimeter, and the other two connections can be tried by trial-and-error. You can lick the tip of your finger and touch the unknown connections on the card with the Famiclone turned on and connected to a TV. If by doing this you hear noise in the audio, you've identified the audio connection. Same with the video, if you see interference patterns on the screen.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 22, 2007, 04:34:19 pm
Quote from: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 04:24:20 pm
That makes it positive tip. The little arrow on the polarity dial of the transformer (or the polarity switch) must point to ( - ) for use with a Famiclone.


Yes. I said 9V+ but I must be wrong. I just don't recall everything correctly - the last time it worked was some years ago.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 22, 2007, 05:05:38 pm
It would be great to see that great Famiclone working again  ;)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nunojsilva on June 23, 2007, 12:02:17 pm
The wire is soldered, but I'll have to wait until Monday so I can buy a new adaptor. The one I have is not working (outputs 17V even when I select 3V). (Fortunately, I tested it before pluging it in the famiclone.)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on June 23, 2007, 04:08:42 pm
Are you testing the voltage with no load? Because those transformers are unregulated power supplies, so if you test them with no load the multimeter will read insane voltage values like 17V. Try putting it in 9V and loading it with some flashlight bulb or resistor or whatever to waste power and then test the voltage across the terminals. It should read between 9 and 12V and that means it's ok.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Champignon on May 17, 2008, 01:16:03 pm
Hello everyone,

This is my first post here at Famicom World, and I thought I would start out by soliciting your expert opinions.
I'm really sort of new to the retro import scene, and I recently purchased an old Famicom on eBay.
It arrived in very good condition, albeit with the power and reset stickers peeled off, along with the space for the larger one on the bottom of the unit.
I'm trying to determine if this is a real Famicom or not, as a few things are fishy.
First off, instead of a selection of Channel 1 or 2 on the bottom,  it has a selection of 3 or 4.  This was my first indication that things were not as they seemed.  On a whim, I opened her up, and none of the boards had "Nintendo" on them.  However, there were stickers with a logo reading "JR" on some of the larger chips...

Aside from these two factors, everything else seems entirely normal, the controllers, molding of the system, orange power indication sticker, 15 pin port in the front, spaces where stickers should be, blue insertion slot, etc.  In fact, it had me fooled for up to a week that it was the real deal, so I'm holding out hope that I still have a real Famicom, perhaps a Hong Kong or Taiwanese version?

I should also say that I've not yet had the chance to see if it works yet, as I have yet to mod it or find a TV old enough to play it.

A single sticker on the bottom reads: "H-14164936"
If you'd like me to post pictures later of the unit and boards, I'd be willing to do that.

So, is this the real deal, and if so, what does it mean that outputs are set to channels 3 and 4?  (Will I still be able to mod the RF board or use the Channel 95 workaround?)

Thanks in advance for any help!
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nurd on May 17, 2008, 01:21:38 pm
Does the player two controller have a microphone?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Champignon on May 17, 2008, 01:26:56 pm
Quote from: nurd on May 17, 2008, 01:21:38 pm
Does the player two controller have a microphone?

Yep, that it does, the controllers look identical to Famicom ones.  The volume slider is functional as well.

EDIT: Typed "slider" twice.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nurd on May 17, 2008, 01:39:50 pm

I think you have a real one, I have never seen a clone with a microphone.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: UglyJoe on May 17, 2008, 02:21:36 pm
Post some pictures of it, please.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: MaxXimus on May 17, 2008, 02:45:49 pm
I have a clone with a microphone.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Profeta Yoshitake on May 17, 2008, 02:52:27 pm
Without Nintendo printed at the boards, I would not assure
you that it's original. BUT it might be a true HK Famicom!

Do anyone here have this elusive FC version?
A shot at the console's guts should end this "case"!

Hum, er, I mean a photographic shot, please, don't kill your videogame!   :-*
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Champignon on May 17, 2008, 03:16:50 pm
Photographic shots forthcoming.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 19, 2008, 05:02:41 pm
Any one check your Famicom!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Is mine a Clone????????

Please Check!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll post the pictures soon......
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 19, 2008, 05:14:11 pm
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1632.jpg)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1631.jpg)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1616.jpg)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1611.jpg)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1594.jpg)
(http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk130/wli9477/IMG_1643.jpg)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 19, 2008, 05:32:15 pm
Incredible, it's original. Maybe it is a Hong Kong model?

EDIT: No Nintendo markings on the board, but the chips are all Ricoh originals. What does the Normal/Slow switch do?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nurd on May 19, 2008, 05:34:05 pm
You should edit your posts, not just make new ones every time.


I don't know enough about it to tell, but it looks real to me.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 19, 2008, 05:44:40 pm
Quote from: 133MHz on May 19, 2008, 05:32:15 pm
Incredible, it's original. Maybe it is a Hong Kong model?

EDIT: No Nintendo markings on the board, but the chips are all Ricoh originals. What does the Normal/Slow switch do?


It has!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Right in the flashing part!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 19, 2008, 05:52:23 pm
Please, try to be more patient and avoid duplicate posts. Do what nurd said and edit your posts when you want to add more information, just click on the Modify icon at the top right of your posts.

If you want more opinions, you'd have to wait for more members to log in.

BTW, what does the Normal/Slow switch do? Is it a 60/50Hz switch?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: michaelthegreat on May 19, 2008, 08:38:22 pm
They added the slow switch when grandmas couldn't get past smb 1-1...   ;)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: JC on May 19, 2008, 08:45:31 pm
Looks authentic to me. I don't know what the slow/normal switch does. The HK Famicom's stickers are in English.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 19, 2008, 08:58:50 pm
The Honk Kong thing crossed my mind since they use a 50 Hz frame rate, that would explain a Normal/Slow switch.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: FamicomFreak on May 19, 2008, 09:22:45 pm
That looks real to me too but you never know right
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: NintendoKing on May 20, 2008, 06:29:16 am
If it is a HK model, its definitely collectable.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 20, 2008, 07:39:41 am
why?????????

why hong kong????????

Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: MaxXimus on May 20, 2008, 08:07:04 am
HK is rare because it is an uncommon system to find perhaps?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: NintendoKing on May 20, 2008, 10:05:12 am
Quote from: MaxXimus on May 20, 2008, 08:07:04 am
HK is rare because it is an uncommon system to find perhaps?

Exactly, and it could fetch a higher amount of money then the Japanese ones. So he is quite fortunate.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 20, 2008, 10:38:21 am
The CPU & PPU are NTSC models. I'm still intrigued by the Normal/Slow switch. Could you test what it really does, please?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 20, 2008, 11:43:11 am

Hong Kong is few centermetres near my home town, Zhu Hai.....

i think i could go there next year......

if any one wants a HK famicom......

i could actually bring few in mine suitcase.......( if it fits....)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: nurd on May 20, 2008, 01:51:01 pm
Centemetres?

Like on a Map? Or in real life?

Or maybe you mean Kilometres?

Either way, cool.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: megaman on May 20, 2008, 02:26:08 pm
haha....kidding.......

you'll get there by ship for like 25-30 minutes.......
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Champignon on May 20, 2008, 10:13:57 pm
Sorry for the lateness, but I've been busy with work and life as of late...
Things should slow down again soon.  As promised, here are the guts, and I have other pictures of the exterior and RF card that I have yet to upload.  Tell me if you need more.
The image in question is found below:

(http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/moneyshot2-1.png)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 20, 2008, 10:31:50 pm
That's a clone with UMC chips.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Profeta Yoshitake on May 21, 2008, 06:36:06 am
Well, now that the case is solved, we deserve a picture of the exterior
of this Famiclone!  ;D
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Champignon on May 21, 2008, 03:08:46 pm
Alright, here are some more photos of the clone.

Top:http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/openwide.png (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/openwide.png)
Controllers:http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/twoofakind.png (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/twoofakind.png)
Back:http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/justnotright.png (http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l187/bigbookofwar/justnotright.png)

Any idea on how to go about getting to work on a North American television set?
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: 133MHz on May 21, 2008, 04:26:48 pm
Whoa that's such a blatant copy! I'd be pretty confused too by just looking at it. The UMC chips gave its clone-ness away. And hey, it could be a perfect clone! Try the NOAC test ;).

Anyway you shouldn't have any kind of problem to get it working on an American TV set. It should use NTSC-M channel frequencies.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Har the cat on May 22, 2008, 07:40:29 am
really interesting. and there is a spare rca plug hole...

i want to know what the slow normal button does too
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: michaelthegreat on May 22, 2008, 11:17:42 pm
I remember being told that the hk famicom had a 50/60 switch because both are found there. I would assume that the slow/fast switch is that.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: MaxXimus on May 23, 2008, 08:15:50 am
Doesn't one run at a lower frame rate? That could explain why they are labeled as such.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: manuel on May 25, 2008, 05:30:51 am
I also think it's authentic. Pirates wouldn't put in Toshiba and Ricoh chips I guess.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Jimnirvana on December 20, 2010, 09:55:36 pm
Megamans board (Page 2)  is exactly the same as my HK famicom! Been trying to find info on that for ages!!! I wanna AV mod it (Unless it is rare as someone stated?) anyone got a guide to this? my board = HVC-CPU-NPC-18-01 offical Nintendo 1990 copyright but no AV mod tutorial has the same one! Any help from you guys would be greatly appreciated....
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: Xious on December 21, 2010, 05:11:57 am
Quote from: michaelthegreat on May 22, 2008, 11:17:42 pm
I remember being told that the hk famicom had a 50/60 switch because both are found there. I would assume that the slow/fast switch is that.


That's wrong, I'm afraid, unless it's hidden internally. I have one, and it has no such switch. HK is PAL anyway, not PAL/NTSC; It's a former part of the British Empire, after all. There were also Asian market and HK market NES toasters over there (HK market is HK only; Asian market is the rest of the continent). Nintendo released the HK NES later (1986-7) with the lockout chips to control piracy.

[Edit] I cracked it open today to check something for another member, and it's rather odd. There is a switch, but it had been sawed down to a nub, and it uses an integrated RF unit, like the later model VCCi/GPM Japan models. I don't know if the switch was done this way on this version from the factory, or if it was done by accident or if somebody decided to break it off intentionally. I also have now seen photos of units where the markings for the switch aren't there, but the switch is present. ... .. .
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: UglyJoe on December 21, 2010, 03:18:23 pm
HK Famicoms do have a "Slow/Normal" switch:

http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4138.0 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=4138.0)
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: ericj on December 21, 2010, 03:46:53 pm
The HK Famicom in the pic you linked to has a Bung (Makko Toys, Ltd.) RF board attached to it. Same dude as in my avatar. Bung is the same company that made the FC "copiers," such as Game Doctors.
Title: Re: Is My Famicom a Famiclone?
Post by: UglyJoe on December 21, 2010, 04:00:05 pm
I know.  It's saying that the Makko RF board is doing the same thing as the HK FC board.