Hi all, I have a question regarding the Eggerland/Lolo game, Eggerland: Sōzō e no Tabidachi for the FDS (often translated as "Eggerland: Departure to Creation"). This is the second Eggerland game on the FDS. My understanding is that Departure to Creation was never given a full retail release. The only way to obtain it was by downloading it at Nintendo kiosks. That said, I recently was on the web and saw a picture of a diskette with a Departure to Creation label:
(https://cdn.wikimg.net/en/strategywiki/images/0/00/Eggerland_Souzouhe_no_Tabidachi_FDS_disk.jpg)
Did they actually make diskette labels for this game back in the day, or is this a modern-made sticker? Was there a manual? I had assumed that since the game was kiosk-only that none of this stuff existed, but I would be happy to be wrong. If they did make these labels back in the day, I'm guessing it's fairly rare? Any info that you all have would be greatly appreciated. Oh, and in case you're curious, the website I was browsing was https://strategywiki.org/wiki/Eggerland:_Souzouhe_no_Tabidachi
Disk Writer games also came with a manual (usually smaller fold-out version) and stickers. The store clerk would provide you with these when writing the game for you. Sometimes they used a more generic label though and wrote the title of the game with a pen, but most FDS games I've seen had a proper label (I don't really know if you can distinguish a Disk Writer disk from a retail disk though).
The manual for Eggerland: Souzouhe no Tabidachi is fold-out only as far as I know. I found a scanned copy on the web but I don't seem to have it on this computer.
Thanks for the info, P! That is so cool. I had no idea Disk Writer games came with manuals and labels. Using your spelling for the romanized title, I was able to find a Nintendo Age forum post which had a copy of the game, and it does indeed look like it had a fold-out manual.
I'm assuming a copy with manual and label is on the rare side, right? I have no sense for how common the Disk Writer games were...
After looking more into it, I guess they mostly carved the stages from this game up and put them into the NES releases of Lolo 1 and 2 --- except for three of its 50 stages. Sort of puts a damper on my excitement for more Lolo, but it would still be quite cool to have a copy.
Oh I didn't check the spelling I just copied it from somewhere. Your spelling is more correct according to Hepburn romanization. I have no idea why they separate "no" with a space but not "he" (or "e" in your spelling).
Yes Souzou is rare and manuals are always rarer.
Yeah Adventure of Lolo is non-Japan-only and is mostly a remix of puzzles from earlier games. Souzou might be reusing old puzzles as well, I don't know but I guess so. The point of Souzou is that the construction mode from the first Eggerland to MSX is back.
Found a place with maps of most Eggerland games (seems to be only missing the Windows 95 games) for comparison:
http://eggerland.msxblue.com/eggermaps.htm
Here is fold out manual that youi are talking about. Yes, FDS Kiosk Writer of course came with labels and such. Was applied by the store clerk but if not present (stock) they sometime offered free paper label.
(http://i66.tinypic.com/if7j3o.jpg)
(http://i67.tinypic.com/e0syte.jpg)
Oh thanks for the scans! I had higher quality scans though where you could read everything on it, but this is better than nothing. :)
Nintendopete listen to Retrospectives as he has first-hand experience from the time unlike me.
Ehehe, by not any means I am expert on FDS :-[ Information I can share is from my own memories which is not always accurate but of course if someone want hear from how it was back in the days I can share my experiences from the best I can.
Ah yeah, I just wanted demonstrate how they looked like, but normally it was like folded piece of paper and the sticker themselves just like the yellow blank disks were stored under clerk seller desk bench thing. 8)
Retrospectives, thanks so much for sharing the scan! And also the historical comments about the Kiosk Writer. Very cool. I have to say, the fold-out manual is a little disappointing compared to how incredible most FDS manuals look --- definitely does not compare favorably to the artwork on the Eggerland cover! But still very cool to learn about, nonetheless.
This was the first game I had heard of which had a Kiosk Writer release but no full retail version. Do you know of any others? I found a website which claims to have a list (see below), but it doesn't seem accurate --- most of the games listed were released on the Famicom (although possibly in a slightly altered form). Do either of you guys happen to know which games were actually exclusive to Kiosk Writing stations?
https://www.giantbomb.com/disk-writer-exclusive/3015-7686/games/
A lot of those games came out on cartridge, but it's possible that the FDS version of them (which however should play identically to the cartridge version) are disk writer exclusives.
If I recall correctly, Clu Clu Land: Welcome to New Clu Clu Land is Disk Writer exclusive. It has new content from the original Clu Clu Land (which also has an FDS version), so it's a unique game.
Kaettekita Mario Bros is probably also Disk Writer only I think. It's also rare.
Correct. These I think were only Disk Writer exclusive aka no retail version of disk. Maybe more I don't know but this is what I can think of:
Lutter
Kaettekita Mario Bros
Puzzle Boys
Ice Climber (this version borrow from the arcade game VS Ice Climber and has upgraded feature such as wind, intro screen and other thing)
Akuu Senki Raijin
Clu Clu Land (New ver)
Famimaga Disk (Hong Kong and perhaps some more was only Disk Writer exclusive)
SD Gundam World (Had exclusive version of Disk Writer with new map etc)
+ A lot of other disk writer had both retail (disk and cart) and disk writer version, only difference is revision and is not really that much difference. Akumajou Dracula (Castlevania) I think had a later revision in the Disk Writer. :-[ but most retail version also had Disk Writer version so overall the library contained of many games that were already retail so the totally exclusive Disk Writer would be not very many.
I see. These things are very hard to deduce just looking at the disks. Each disk has a header block where some information like manufacture date and write date are stored. If both those dates are the same, you know that the disk has never been rewritten in a Disk Writer. But there is no way to know if it was a disk writer exclusive game as far as I know. Although the header block still have many secrets that only Nintendo knows.
Yes, there are some websites in Japanese (as you P probably know), that is vastly covering many of these topics. Not all, but even on different discussion channels and such, people can discuss and refer to old magazines and memories we share together and maybe not make the totally most accurate assumptions, but at least a somewhat collective effort into narrowing down information and such.
Is really just journalistic hard work from mainly hobbyist just like any other type of video game scene all over world :-[
Ah yes, in fact, the more technical aspect although I know it, I am not very "tecchhy" ahaha, but yeah, is basically impossible to differ if the game was exclusive to disk writer just by physical exam.
Also I can confirm that the disk fax overwritten disks were indeed overwritten by Nintendo themselves for people who sent them in. So there might be a chance they were not allowed to write or simply could not (due to mechanics of the Disk Writer) write over fax disks. For me it still remain a mystery but at least I can confirm Nintendo did it themselves, but I cannot find anything that Nintendo was the Only was who could do it. Technically the Disk Writer should be able re write fax disk I suppose? I mean, I see no reason why except maybe due to some physical design of the disk (same as pink one) the kiosk recognized it as a pink disk instead of a "normal" disk??? That might be the reason. What do you think? :P
Yes as far as I know the blue fax disks are just a normal FDS disks physically (just with the shutter) so I don't think there is a mechanical reason. If the Disk Writer did refuse to write blue disks it was probably because it was programmed to do so (the blue disks can be identified by looking in the header block).
Maybe the pink disk could be identified in the header as well, but there is no information of this on the internet. I checked the header of it and it has the same identifier as normal yellow disks has, and most other information are just set to zero (including the manufacture date). You never know if someone has messed with it though (some dumpers tends to stick in their own names or other stuff in the headers for some stupid reason).
Maybe there is information in the header that the Disk Writer read and rejected blue fax disks? This would obviously exclude Nintendo's own disk writer hardware and or a firmware that would ignore the header bit on the disk and write over the contents regardless? Just a possible theory.
Yes that's what I was trying to say. Blue disks are detectable, the question is if the Disk Writer did it and refused rewriting it if it did.
More specifically every FDS game has a unique four character game code (something that Nintendo used in later systems as well). These game codes can easily be seen by opening the disk file in a hex editor like xvi32. The game code is right after the "*NINTENDO-HVC*" string.
A few examples:
Game Game code
Zelda 1 "ZEL "
Zelda 2 "LNK "
Metroid "MET "
Hikari Shinwa Paluthena no Kagami "PTM "
Kaettekita Mario Bros "KMAR"
Eggerland "EGL "
Eggerland Souzouhe no Tabidachi "EGS "
FMC Disk Checker "CHK "
Nakayama Miho no Tokimeki High School "THSE"
Famicom Grand Prix F1 Race "FRGE"
Family Computer Golf Japan Course "GFJE"
Family Computer Golf US Course "GFUE"
Family Computer Golf (price disk) "GSJF"
Nazo no Murasamejou "NMJ "
Super Mario Bros (FDS version) "SMA "
Super Mario Bros 2 "SMB "
Clu Clu Land (New version) "CLD "
Dracula II "DRK "
Yume Koujou Doki Doki Panic "DRM "
Otocky "OTO "
As can be seen here the final character in the code is usually an empty space " " (hexadecimal value: 20), this includes the pink disk checker disk which has the code "CHK ". But for the blue fax disks the final character is an "E" (supposedly standing for "event"). According to the Nesdev wiki (https://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Family_Computer_Disk_System#Disk_info_block_.28block_1.29) the final letter "R" means the price is reduced (500 yen instead of 600 yen like normal) due to advertising. Only Kaettekita Mario Bros seems to have this.
Also I just noticed that the Golf gold price disk has an "F" as the final character. There's no mention of this in the wiki so this was a new discovery for me.
Indeed. So question remain. Why is the Fax Disks still so rare? According to what I came across they were overwritten by Nintendo of people sending them in. But if that mean Nintendo as headquarter Nintendo (Kyoto only) or local retailer across country? Because the overwrite mail service was available through all country and not only to Kyoto.
So yes, the Disk Writer would likely reject it. Or the clerk him/herself. But that makes no sense because if Nintendo could do it, then they also would be able doing it, unless they used different type of writing soft/hardware in the headquarters because then makes sense that they are so rare and that Nintendo was the only one could do it.
A real mystery.... ???
Yeah the disk writing equipment Nintendo used, most likely didn't have any such limitations, or they could be overridden. A normal FDS drive can be used to write disks with, if you have the software (though later drives did have a write protection circuit as we all know).
So a customer sent in a blue disk for a fax event that is already over for rewriting? I see no reason for Nintendo to deny that. On the other hand, a store clerk might not be able to take such decisions themselves, if they indeed were instructed to not rewrite blue disks.
Quote from: P on August 08, 2018, 03:09:59 pm
Yeah the disk writing equipment Nintendo used, most likely didn't have any such limitations, or they could be overridden. A normal FDS drive can be used to write disks with, if you have the software (though later drives did have a write protection circuit as we all know).
So a customer sent in a blue disk for a fax event that is already over for rewriting? I see no reason for Nintendo to deny that. On the other hand, a store clerk might not be able to take such decisions themselves, if they indeed were instructed to not rewrite blue disks.
Sure, although quality can be anything from between "OK" to "Less OK" compared to Disk Writer quality since the revision earlier for example using a FDSstick connected to PC via RAM is like well, comparable to industry printer vs home printer if you know what I mean. :P
Anyway, yes. Reason it tend leaning toward Nintendo exclusively did it, simply becuase they are so rare. If any clerk could do it, I suppose they would be more common. Guess we have trying to track down someone that worked in the FDS department of Nintendo, somehow. :-[