Famicom World

Family Computer => Famicom / Disk System => Topic started by: boye on April 04, 2019, 10:12:14 am

Title: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 04, 2019, 10:12:14 am
Is there a dump of the Disk Writer BIOS?
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: UglyJoe on April 04, 2019, 10:17:06 am
Yes, most emulators require it.  I won't link it directly since it's technically a ROM, but if you google for "FDS bios" or "disksys.rom", you'll find it.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 04, 2019, 10:21:06 am
Quote from: UglyJoe on April 04, 2019, 10:17:06 am
Yes, most emulators require it.  I won't link it directly since it's technically a ROM, but if you google for "FDS bios" or "disksys.rom", you'll find it.

No, not the FDS BIOS, the BIOS that was used for the Disk Writers.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: UglyJoe on April 04, 2019, 10:22:10 am
Ooh, sorry.  Misread the request :-[
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 04, 2019, 10:25:51 am
Quote from: UglyJoe on April 04, 2019, 10:22:10 am
Ooh, sorry.  Misread the request :-[

No problem. Happens to everyone.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 04, 2019, 11:39:26 pm
Why do you need this? Want make a replica?  8)
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 05, 2019, 01:33:16 am
Yeah but they look great.
We can only hope that someone on Nintendo leaks it, or a miracle happens and they let someone publish documents and dumps of it. NOA apparently let the last Sky Skipper board get dumped which then got emulated by Mame long ago (and more recently Arcade Archives), but this is Nintendo headquarters not NOA.

Quote from: FingeredDonut on April 04, 2019, 02:14:37 pm
I know this is not part of the subject but, I found the sprites sheet from it:
https://mfgg.net/?act=resdb&param=02&c=1&id=30528

Thank you! :)

Quote from: 80sFREAK on April 04, 2019, 11:39:26 pm
Why do you need this? Want make a replica?  8)

Who doesn't need this?
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 05, 2019, 02:29:24 am
Then my question is - how images were stored in original device? My guess some sort of ROM cartridges  ???

And what you gonna copy?  ???

added
I think, that modified RAM adapter can do the job.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 05, 2019, 04:25:06 am
Yeah on pictures the kiosk has 9 slots filled with special yellow cartridges that looks like NES cartridges, so it is believed that stores got new games on these. Sounds like only 9 games are available at a time, but I guess the clerk can technically just swap the cartridge out if a customer wants an older game not currently featured.

http://www.chrismcovell.com/secret/sp_FDShardware.html#diskwriter

There's a QD-drive in the door where the disk is inserted at. There's also a slot that says SOFT PACK and another slot I can't read. There are no obvious buttons so I'm not sure how it's operated.

I wonder if the Disk Writer hardware is Famicom-based. It would make sense to reuse existing hardware anyway.

Spoiler
(http://www.oldiesrising.com/images_lesaviezvous/takeru/disk%20writer2.jpg)
[close]


Quote from: 80sFREAK on April 05, 2019, 02:29:24 am
And what you gonna copy?  ???

What do you mean? If you just wanna copy disks you obviously don't need this. That's not the point.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 05, 2019, 11:31:50 am
Ok. Do you have any idea, what was inside those yellow cartridges?
I think it is possible to disable BIOS and rearrange memory map.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 05, 2019, 03:47:14 pm
I wonder if you could use NES carts that have equal to or less than 64k of ROM (that includes PRG rom and CHR rom) total on the Disk Writer?
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 05, 2019, 09:56:22 pm
You should read nesdev wiki. There is lots of useful information.

My guess, why there is only 9 slots for the distributed games - 10th slot occupied by BIOS cart, which is "inside the cat". And no, for those "yellow carts" no need CHR part, but special mapper, if there is famicom bus(not custom bus).
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 06, 2019, 01:52:28 am
Yeah if we assume the Disk Writer is Famicom-based hardware, it's running a built-in BIOS cart and the yellow carts are purely used as storage media for the games that are to be copied. Only the BIOS needs the CHR chip since it's the only thing that needs to run.

I heard nothing at all about the yellow carts. That they are used as storage media for featured FDS games is pure speculation, but it's likely since there are nine of them and there are nine FDS titles displayed on the kiosk.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 06, 2019, 07:38:49 am
I assume they are storage media, to make it easier for the games to be swapped out later.
Maybe they are just NES carts?
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 06, 2019, 11:06:11 am
Or maybe not  ???
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 06, 2019, 12:47:24 pm
They may be wired differently.
Also, since Sky Skipper was dumped, we shouldn't lose hope that the Disk Writer BIOS will be dumped.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 06, 2019, 03:26:52 pm
They probably looks like NES carts because Nintendo reuses molds and parts for several things. Famicom Box also used NES cart looking carts, but they won't work in a NES. Neither the Famicom Box nor the Disk Writer are sold to individuals but to hotels and lended to stores, so there is no real risk in customers mixing carts up.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 06, 2019, 10:06:44 pm
Just do it(c)
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 07, 2019, 02:25:32 am
Ummm... and what's inside?  ???
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 07, 2019, 03:41:14 am
修理 (shuuri) means repair, so I guess it's some kind of service cartridge for some kind of Disk Writer. But it sounds strange that these old systems saved stuff that could go wrong and had to be repaired by software instead of just rebooting it. The shuuri III label might just be a strange way to write revision number 3 of the BIOS for bug fixes.
I'm just shooting in the dark...

Did these carts really boot the Disk Writer BIOS on a Famicom when they still worked? That would prove that the Disk Writer was a normal Famicom with some special stuff. No attempts to dump them? If we are lucky the ROMs are still OK.

I have a feeling I've seen pics of these before on the forum and forgot about them.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 07, 2019, 06:46:03 am
Quote from: togemet2 on April 06, 2019, 10:16:23 pm
Both broken unfortunately, but here they are.

(https://i.imgur.com/93W1c4c.jpg)

Try cleaning the cart really well.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 07, 2019, 07:16:41 am
P, probably just marked bad/broken carts to fix/send them for repair later. Also, remember, FDS BIOS have memory testing routine and these carts "diagnostics" might be related to calibrating disk drive.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 07, 2019, 11:32:15 am
So you mean the cartridge itself is on repair??

And why can't just these diagnostics be in the DW BIOS instead of on a separate cartridge?
The labels aren't helpful, they just say EEPROM Pack and Disk Writer, so they could contain anything.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: boye on April 07, 2019, 03:55:45 pm
Quote from: P on April 07, 2019, 11:32:15 am
So you mean the cartridge itself is on repair??

And why can't just these diagnostics be in the DW BIOS instead of on a separate cartridge?
The labels aren't helpful, they just say EEPROM Pack and Disk Writer, so they could contain anything.

I think that test mode was only for the RAM Adapter itself, not the drive.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 08, 2019, 02:19:15 am
Sure, but I don't see how the RAM Adapter is related.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: 80sFREAK on April 08, 2019, 06:58:40 am
togemet2, thanks!

Quote from: P on April 07, 2019, 11:32:15 am
So you mean the cartridge itself is on repair??

And why can't just these diagnostics be in the DW BIOS instead of on a separate cartridge?
The labels aren't helpful, they just say EEPROM Pack and Disk Writer, so they could contain anything.
2C33 chip have built-in mask ROM with BIOS. You can utilize same chip in the Disk Writer, by disabling existing BIOS, keep only registers avaliable. In this case you will have E000-FFFF for your Disk Writer PRG and CHR on the "green cart".

Same "window" you can map removable carts.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 09, 2019, 08:37:19 am
I see, in that case if the 2C33 chip is in there, the FDS audio is also available for the Disk Writer?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNl8gEk5iAo
The program certainly looks and sounds like it's Famicom software, and the music seems to do sounds that I'm not sure the APU can do alone.
In this demo when Mario is carrying the yellow disk and Luigi is carrying the yellow NES-like cartridge, the message reads: "please insert softpack and disk-card" so that's pretty much proof that the yellow carts contains the software.

Quote from: togemet2 on April 08, 2019, 04:26:02 am
These aren't test cartridges, and actually held the BIOS at some point, but they are totally broken. Sorry to disappoint.
Do EEPROMs just break like that? And if they are broken how do you know the contain the Disk Writer BIOS?
I understand it's not yours. Just make sure to let us know if they are ever examined or dumped or something.
Title: Re: Disk Writer BIOS dump?
Post by: P on April 09, 2019, 05:02:41 pm
Thanks for this information. Yeah I've seen that manual in auctions. Hopefully it'll get scanned some day.