Hey guys, long time collector and former member of Nintendoage. I have recently been getting into famicom and added a few games to my collection, mostly low dollar titles, but interesting ones like spartan x and bionic commando. Also castlevania III for obvious reasons.
My issue is Lickle is the first more expensive title im interested in and I am suspicious of it. I just want the cart but was offered a complete one. Tray is wrong (says Konami), missing flyers, and seems TOO clean. However, information on spotting a fake is limited and while I know NES very well this is out of my depth. Can anyone help? I see there is even fake boxes on ebay now..
I uploaded the photos here
https://www.tumblr.com/annon37/709516515039444992/lickle-famicom-real-or-fake?source=share
thanks for the help and excited to be part of the community
Ok. Would still love someone to take a look at this but based on the views and no comments there may not be a good answer. So for future people like me i'll leave it all as reference and share what ive learned from hours of googling haha
1) The pins must match this https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/4078/seirei-densetsu-lickle
2) The back label must have a STAMPED date code
3) Manuals are not faked but boxes are.
4) There is no way to tell based on photos if its real or fake box, if the real is mint. Im lucky with mine that level codes were written on the flap, to me that makes it legit. However, I will buy a fake box simply to compare in person.
5) If anyone needs a konami tray and has the correct likely easier to find tray for this im up for a trade.
6) I will try to find another game of this era with the flyers and cautions etc to complete this and post results if and when I find them.
Anything expensive/overpriced on FC is field of landmines. You are right to be suspect.
One thing towards legitimacy on the cart is the inside of the pin connector housing. You see two codes on either side (TB-2 and in a Nintendo logo-esque bubble on the other side with something like TB-25). This imprinting is on all legitimate standard FC cart shells (so not on Irem, Konami even Taito specific shells). I checked about 20 games from various publishers and release dates and all had them except one (Cosmo Police Galivan, but the back label is unique among FC carts and mine also has what I assume is the name of the kid who owned it in sharpie written in the spot for a name). Not a 100% sure thing but it seems that way.
Comparing to Lickle, I don't have carts from that late era of Taito (because have NES versions and lol prices), which would be the best to compare to, however I checked Chuka Taisen and Tetrastar (both Taito releases in standard shells) and they both had matching imprinted codes in the plastic to the pics of Lickle. If these imprints weren't there, I would say fake for sure.
This doesn't mean 100% that the copy isn't a bootleg; it would just rule out the lazier ones. Here's a definitely lazy bootleg copy and the inside of the pin connector is a mess (nevermind the lol backlabel):
https://www.ebay.com/itm/125649703395
That's what I would expect out of a bootleg. However, bootleggers have improved their work unfortunately. See below:
https://www.aliexpress.us/item/2251832764267359.html
On the board pic, you can very faintly see the same imprinting but it's a different number (looks like TB-30 vs TB-2N on the one for sale). Makes some sense as the bootlegger will use whatever mold they can copy and not go to the level of detail to change the mold to match whatever cart they are ripping off. This bootleg is also missing the circles in the pin connector (I assume where the plastic was injected). They could be there but the pic is not great so they could just be blurred out, but they LOOK not there.
Another thing to look for (and if you are psychotic like me, I mean, collect amiibo, you'll be familiar with this), is the number imprinted on the back label. You'll see on the copy for sale an "09" in the upper left hand corner. This is also on every standard shell FC cart back. The number changes (seems to go from 07 to 11?) but they were all there. They can be VERY hard to see (had to use a flashlight to see some of them) but they are there. This copy has one ("09") and that matches likely real copies on eBay. If it wasn't there, I would say it was fake.
A few years ago I bought (coincidentally from J4U below) a copy of Recca. Even though J4U never lists bootlegs, spending that much and how brazenly Recca is bootlegged, I had to make sure it was real. Those imprintings are on my copy as is the imprinted number.
Another thing to check for is wear on the gloss of the front label. That was another indicator for me for Recca. The gloss may not get damaged but small lines/scratches can develop in it from use. You're likely familar with that on NES. My Recca had that wear. A pristine bootleg would look like it was never used. Again, not a sure fire indicator - a bootleg can get use that would affect that gloss and a truly mint copy will have no lines on it - but something that could help lean towards yes. Getting a pic of this is tough, you will need the seller to angle it so light reflects off of it.
The pins on the copy for sale look correct, however I don't think you can count on that anymore.
As far as the box and manual, I can't help you on that. Dangerous game and all; all of my FC carts are loose (drives the anal retentive collector bananas with boxes of all kinds of sizes so I just went with loose). Bootgod at least has scans of them:
https://nescartdb.com/profile/view/4078/seirei-densetsu-lickle
You would need to really inspect the level of commercial printing done for the box and manual - there's a specific method the boxes, manuals and labels were printed from that era that would be different from nearly any bootleg (also something you may be familar with for NES). However, it may not be something you can inspect unless you have the box in person.
I wouldn't put too much stock in the Konami tray. It's the old trick of jamming a complete NES game with a sleeve and inserts from another cheaper game to make it look "more complete". If anything, it would lean more towards being real because you have to be pretty fucking stupid to use the wrong company tray if it's a fake.
Your biggest problem is this is basically dead mint. Wear is the best indicator of legitimacy especially Japanese wear, where it looks like these carts were rubbed around the ceiling of some dude's attic. Plus the whole thing before with Cosmo Police Galivan, because these are kids toys and they put their names on them sometimes. This cart for sale has none of that.
If you can find someone with a legit copy that can look in there and see what is there against what is above, that can help. This guy's copy seems very legit, and he checked the print pattern as well.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/304588782972
Good luck! I would err towards this copy being legit, at least the cart.
If you ever get into FDS collecting, ONLY ONLY ONLY collect complete (in the square shell with manual) games. Everything else about the games is 100% bootlegged in a way you'll never, ever be able to tell if it's real or not except the manuals.
Btw, if you're getting into FC, you need to browse J4U.
https://www.j4u.co.jp/
The heyday of FC passed ever since the shipping easement ended up and with it $2 shipping but you can still get a good deal and a great price per cart even with the large initial shipping cost.
Regarding your edit about low views and no replies, don't forget this is a niche forum in the time of social media so not very busy. Plus the members here are very interested in bootleg stuff - both bootlegs of real carts and wacky stuff like Chinese originals, unlicensed JP games, FDS games on carts and what not. Collecting as we know it isn't as much of a focus here.
I want to thank you for the extremely informative reply. That helped validate and teach me a lot. I trust the seller based on mutual friends and do not believe he would intentionally peddle a fake and arrived at similar conclusions regarding the tray. I learned when I bought my samson about the codes and such and hoped this had the correct rear label. I am eager to get it in hand to be sure but I also feel pretty comfortable its legit. I paid 600 canadian for it so I wanted to be as sure as possible. Sadly I sold my little samson but as a gamer first and collector second it seemed to be the right call. I will never give up playing legit cart on legit hardware so switching to famicom still works for me an I have an RGB AV FC console.
Anyway thank you again and I will keep you posted when it arrives. Do you find that j4u is safer than ebay? My list so far is small but will likely grow:
FAMICOM:
Splatterhouse
Kid Dracula
Ghostbusters II
Parodius
Mickey Mouse Balloon
Waiwai World 2
Final Mission
Crisis Force
No problem, my pleasure!
That's a good deal for a complete Lickle for sure. Knowing the seller is a big plus. I think you're completely in the clear.
I'm with you on playing on real hardware with real carts... it's why I got into FC because most things are still very cheap compared to NES and there are so many games we didn't get, and a whole bunch you never hear about either.
J4U is as safe as it gets. Probably not 100% perfect (as you can see by my trepidation with buying Recca, which was unfounded) however I've never seen an obvious bootleg for sale on their site. I have spent literally thousands with them which is not bragging because I am kind of ashamed to admit that lol. Everything I have received has never given me any reason to believe it wasn't real, and anything held up to scrutiny has held up.
Their shipping is now only FedEx and it gets to the US fast, probably the same for Canada. They pack very well too.
The way their prices work is they will list a game for a high price, but every day it drops by some percentage every day (I think around 7pm EST). It will keep going down day by day. It used to be everything kept dropping until it was bought or hit $1 but I think they either did away with that or set lower bounds on some things. I was watching a FDS game that was $60 and it rubber banded back to $60 a day after it hit $48.
He has 3000+ FC carts in stock so a nice selection to look through. I think the tiers on shipping are every 8 FC carts will bump it up $3, so you can play with your cart a bit so you don't add a lone game and eat additional shipping just because you added one game. Also everything they have sold is still on the site (just marked sold) so you can do a search for a game and see where the price stacks up with other sales and to see how low it might go. Also useful to see if they have a copy of the game in stock for cheaper. Every copy of any game is priced individually so you will see swings in prices on individual games especially if a copy is newly listed.
The games on your list are mostly going to be low concern on the bootleg meter. Aliexpress doesn't make bootleg carts that mimic non-standard FC cart shells, so over half of that list will be safer buys than most. Still be vigilant as buying Gimmick was a headache as some outfit did make knock off Sunsoft carts, so it's possible you may see a boot of any of those games, but I still think the chance would be low side. As long as the color of the shell matches a real one, you more than likely will eliminate any pre 2000s bootlegs from your view.
Also a great selection of games!
QuoteEven though J4U never lists bootlegs
Mm, I dunno about that. I have seen a couple.
Quote from: Skawo on February 17, 2023, 02:17:40 pmQuoteEven though J4U never lists bootlegs
Mm, I dunno about that. I have seen a couple.
Fwiw, I haven't. Were they obvious ones or ones meant to look like the real deal?
I've seen both, actually. Only ones I can find right now are these FDS bootlegs I spoke to a friend about, but, still;
One that's very clearly a bootleg:
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443514410544136232/1076455940519370802/image.png)
And one that's pretending to be the real thing. The label takes the entire label area (it shouldn't) and it's not cut out quite right (that JAPAN at the end there is way too close to the edge)
(https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/443514410544136232/1076456851161489468/image.png)
Huh, and I've browsed J4U's FDS listings way too much and I missed that obvious one. I wonder why they paired a bootleg disc with a seemingly real looking manual.
This is kind of what was alluding to regarding FDS collecting - the copy in the lower pic is what I was talking about. Fake labels are everywhere (and someone here is selling them on their site), plus fake inserts, plus if you care about the data on the disc, good luck.
Have you seen any cart bootlegs?
@archangel: Take this as you will and buy with care. I'm still confident in my J4U purchases after seeing these (and getting lots of games that upon receipt were no question real) but you decide if you want to buy from them.
I think I have, though, to be fair, it could've been someone else and I'm misremembering. Don't see any and no FDS fakes right now.
It's still a slip on their part so have to be fair and rescind my comment. Also to be fair, they did sell that Fairyland Story proto in a bulk lot of FC accidentally...
Quote from: Archangel3090 on February 17, 2023, 07:30:07 ambased on the views and no comments there may not be a good answer.
If looking at the time stamps, not even a minute had passed between your first and second post. You'd need to wait at least a few days for comments on a less crowded forum like this.
Also we are all sorts of people here, but an English-speaking Famicom collecting community is indeed niche and the community is shared by those that focuses on 60-pin clones.