I just want to ask people here about it..Do you beleave in Ghosts..Can they chose to be earthbound or go though the Light..Is that just made up, I been watching like Ghost Hunters & A Haunting
When I was much younger, I went to a weekend camp that was held at a church. During the night I woke up to what seemed like someone walking up a flight of stairs. They walked up to me, stood there for a few seconds, then turned and walked through a wall and disapeared.
As for whether you stay or go, I believe you dont nescesarily know you are gone, and you have to accept that you are before you can cross.
I've seen ghosts before especially when I stayed over at my ex gf's place. I think once you die you are reborn again in a hospital but of course with no memories of your past life just feelings. If you aren't reborn then you will be a ghost wondering around for eternity.
It would be nice, but unfortunately I'm leaning more toward nothing. I think life after death is a man made idea to help us cope with the infinity that is dying.
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 16, 2007, 12:41:39 pm
When I was much younger, I went to a weekend camp that was held at a church. During the night I woke up to what seemed like someone walking up a flight of stairs. They walked up to me, stood there for a few seconds, then turned and walked through a wall and disapeared.
As for whether you stay or go, I believe you dont nescesarily know you are gone, and you have to accept that you are before you can cross.
I want to see a ghost for my self..but at the same time, I would be scared as hell
It was quite frightening. On a similor note, I also had an out of body experience.
I don't believe in religion or god at all, I think it is a great set of morals for people to follow but nothing more. I do think ghosts or being may exist cause I have seen some strange stuff that I haven't been able to explain before. I used to be part of a Ghost Hunting society a few years ago and we would go investigate places, similar to what TAPS does on Sci Fi.
~~NGD
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 16, 2007, 02:59:38 pm
It was quite frightening. On a similor note, I also had an out of body experience.
my mother had an out of body experience. It freaked her out!
I believe that there's another plane of existence, where demons and angels lie. I don't believe that the spirits of people or pets or whatever remain behind, though. I believe that there are paranormal activities out there, but I don't think they're the result of ghosts (in the traditional sense of the term).
My interpretation of early spiritual history is that humans *perceived* phenomena they could not explain, usually because of a lack of education, and made up stories to explain how or why the phenomena occurred.
(I'm not talking about ghosts and the like; those, imo, are spawned by hallucinations, or minor interruptions in the normal functioning of the brain's processes, or even misinterpretations of this-worldly phenomena.)
This is my favorite example: In Israel, some archeologists have come across what they believe to be the original Sodom and Gomorrah. Those two "cities" are among the places where the world's (Judeo-Christian) religious understanding was shaped. At the site where the two "cities" are presumed to have been, scientists have noticed a very unusual phenomenon: the ground collapses. And not like your normal sink hole, because nothing sinks. Instead, it is as if there are large covered caves underground and the covering (the ceiling of dirt and rock) collapses. So, when you try to look into one of these holes all you see is black. These holes are deep and vast. They have explained why this happens. Much of the soil is interspersed with swaths of salt. When it rains, the salt is diluted and seeped further into the earth, creating empty pockets where the salt used to be. Then, the ground atop these pockets weakens over time and collapses. Now imagine this: You live in Sodom and Gomorrah long ago, in the BC's. You have your little mud hut or whatever on top of one of these ceilings of dirt and rock. While you're just beyond the home tending to your work, the ceiling of dirt and rock collapses, not only sucking your home into a deep black hole but also your wife and kids. When you walk up to the hole you see nothing, but you hear the faint screams for help from your family somewhere deep in that hole. You don't have the know-how to create any contraption to rescue them. Tell me: What would you think? In my estimation, someone in that situation, including the village's spiritual leaders, might begin developing the religious concept we call Hell.
Building on misinterpretations of phenomena like this, you eventually get more philosophical explanations, and thus, life after death and the rest of it.
(BTW: I believe extraterrestrials exist...but maybe that's for a different thread.)
I don't "believe" in ghosts, nor do I "believe" they don't exist. I know they don't exist.
Quote from: vealchop on November 16, 2007, 02:29:48 pm
It would be nice, but unfortunately I'm leaning more toward nothing. I think life after death is a man made idea to help us cope with the infinity that is dying.
That's about my standpoint. Couldn't say it better.
I think when it's over, then it's over.
idk what happens after death i mean what would happen to you. what would happen to your thoughts and all. Would evertything just stop, or is there somthing after? i guess im an atheist cuz i dont believe anything. i dont understand why if there was a higher being he wouldnt show himself and how he could just poof out of nowhere. i also cant grasp the idea of evolution either. i kinda believe in gohsts and i want to have an out of body experience. idk y yet tho. i also hate how people say "well im an athiest" and then the persons like "wow you worship the devil" I dont get this. if there is a god then satan is his negative and you cant beleive in one without the other. idk some of my ramblings.
Or think of it like this: If God is all-powerful and the creator of all things: 1) Did God create the devil, and 2) why does God not stop the devil from doing evil? Some argue free will. And, if God has no control over the devil, that means God is not all-powerful.
If you want to know about God and Satan, you definitely need to read the Good Book = Dragonball by Akira Toriyama. ;)
Quote from: manuel on November 21, 2007, 08:54:12 am
If you want to know about God and Satan, you definitely need to read the Good Book = Dragonball by Akira Toriyama. ;)
Haha. That reminds of the censored US version of DBZ.
There was an episode where Goku was in Hell, and some of the demon guys were wearing t-shirts that said "HELL" on them. Only, Americans are offended by Hell or something, so they edited every shot of the shirts so that they look like "HFIL" instead. They explained this by making King Kai explain it as the "Home For Infinite Losers".
Wow, why do they come up with shit like that? :o
HFIL? :P
God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell. At least this is what my Mom told me. She is VERY religious.
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 21, 2007, 06:08:40 pm
God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell. At least this is what my Mom told me. She is VERY religious.
oh yeah I read about that story....very interesting stuff. I used to be hunted down by christians back in high school until I finally decided to go to their meeting.
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 21, 2007, 06:08:40 pm
God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.
But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?
Quote from: 133MHz on November 21, 2007, 06:46:39 pm
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 21, 2007, 06:08:40 pm
God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.
But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?
Maybe it was the choice of his angels and eventually one back stab him like with Jesus and his followers because one of them sold him out even though Jesus knew about it. I don't read much about the bible but I remember that stuff.
Quote from: 133MHz on November 21, 2007, 06:46:39 pm
Quote from: MaxXimus on November 21, 2007, 06:08:40 pm
God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.
But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?
Free will.
He supposedly gave everyone a choice. We choose to live a life of faith and follow the path God wants us to follow, or we don't and in return are damned to an eternity of pain and suffering under the rule of Satan. What I don't understand is if God loved all his creatures as the bible states, then why would he put us through that?
I would also like to mention that I don't necessarily believe any of this. I just know a lot about it. It is actually kind of interesting.
This stuff is interesting. I was raised Catholic and I've spent a heck of a lot of time thinking it all over. I've come to the conclusion that what you get from the Bible is a mix of real history, misunderstandings, and convenient lies. Who's doing the lying? People who want to use the Bible to justify that God is on their side (or, God is on the side of the moral, which just happens to be themselves).
As for the devil...people always put forth this idea of free will. But it's a sham. If God is all-knowing, then he knows the past, the present, and the future -- every detail of it. He knows what choice you will make before you make it. So, you don't have free will...it's all pre-determined. Now, if God isn't all-knowing, then free will is possible. But! a god that isn't all-knowing is a god that isn't all-powerful.
Quotewhat you get from the Bible is a mix of real history, misunderstandings, and convenient lies. Who's doing the lying? People who want to use the Bible to justify that God is on their side (or, God is on the side of the moral, which just happens to be themselves).
I couldn't agree more. I say this to people all the time. The bible is a good book of morals, nothing more nothing less. No different than reading any other book.
Hundreds of years ago people believed that the Greek Gods were the higher power and now pretty much anyone would laugh at you and think your crazy if you worshiped the Greek Gods today. Who is to say in a few hundred more years that people won't think the same thing about God and Jesus of today. You die, you decompose, and become some fungus, circle of life.
IMO religion for the most part is for people who need something to grasp onto to make them feel better about themselves. Most very strong willed or scientific people do not believe in god or religion for my experiences.
~~NGD
Quote from: NationalGameDepot on November 22, 2007, 11:06:23 am
IMO religion for the most part is for people who need something to grasp onto to make them feel better about themselves. Most very strong willed or scientific people do not believe in god or religion for my experiences.
~~NGD
Amen to that ;D.
Quote from: JC on November 22, 2007, 10:44:37 am
As for the devil...people always put forth this idea of free will. But it's a sham. If God is all-knowing, then he knows the past, the present, and the future -- every detail of it. He knows what choice you will make before you make it. So, you don't have free will...it's all pre-determined. Now, if God isn't all-knowing, then free will is possible. But! a god that isn't all-knowing is a god that isn't all-powerful.
The problem with trying to apply logic to God is that God is the absolutely illogical ("the absurd"). God doesn't make sense.
People have faith in all sorts of things (faith that a chair won't buckle under your weight, faith that locks on a door will ensure that it stays closed). These kinds of faiths are justifiable for a number of reasons (you've sat in the chair before, nobody has been able to unlock the door without the key). However, these justifications can fall apart (the chair does eventually buckle and break, the lock can be picked or you forgot to lock it). Your faith in these things can falter because your justifications fall through.
These kinds of faith are easy to have because you can justify them. However, these justifications are never absolute. This has always bothered me about science. Scientific justifications, by their very nature, change. Theories are constantly refined. Science doesn't tell me how things work. Science tells me how things appear to work at the current point in time using our best methods of observation. This isn't a bad thing. I mean, scientific theories are, of course, very very useful. However, these are fleeting faiths.
Justifications taint true faith. Faith is believing in what can't be justified. If your belief is partially justified, then you are only being partially faithful. If your justifications fail and all that is left is faith, do you keep this faith or abandon it? If you abandon it, was there ever a faith at all?
These partial faiths are not the kind of faith that I have in God. God is utterly irrational. There is no way to justify a faith in God. And yet, I have faith in God. Because there are no justifications for my faith, nothing can be said or done that will weaken this faith. This is absolute faith, and this is exactly what Christianity is all about.
So, yes, what you said makes perfect logical sense. There is a clear contradiction there. I've thought about it myself quite a lot, actually. I've concluded that since God is illogical, logic does not apply to him. Logic dictates that God cannot be omniscient while at the same time grant us free will. God dictates that He can. I've tried to come up with solutions for how this is logically possible (humans are bound to logic, after all), and this is the best I've come up with. Bear in mind that this isn't any kind of official explanation, it's just something I came up with while I was bored at college. There is a theory (I forget the name) that for every action we make, there is a parallel universe in which we made a different choice. My theory would be that God is aware of every one of these parallel universes. We can make any decision we want, but He already knows what's going to happen, regardless of the choice. So, not only does He know the past, present, and future, but also what could have been and what might be. There are flaws to my theory, but it's best that I could come up with.
Essentially what you're saying is: I believe because I believe. The justification is the belief, nothing more, and it's impossible to argue against that. In other words, I could say: I believe there's an invisible cat in the empty chair next to me. The cat sees all and knows all, and its very existence is chaotic. I dare you to prove me wrong; after all, the chair is empty.
And essentially you're saying: humans don't have the mental capacity to know God. And that means, any theory or definition of God is fabricated, since the true God is something we humans could never know. And it follows: any belief in God is false, because it would be entirely based on one's own (or an amassed) fabrication, not truth. And it follows: any action taken as a reaction to this God is also false, based on fabrication.
Quote from: JC on November 22, 2007, 09:35:00 pm
Essentially what you're saying is: I believe because I believe. The justification is the belief, nothing more, and it's impossible to argue against that. In other words, I could say: I believe there's an invisible cat in the empty chair next to me. The cat sees all and knows all, and its very existence is chaotic. I dare you to prove me wrong; after all, the chair is empty.
The justification isn't belief. There is no justification, just the belief. If you want to believe in the invisible cat, go right on ahead. I have no reason to try and disprove it. And, hey, maybe it gives you comfort and it's telling you to live a moral life. Why should I try and take that away from you?
Quote from: JC on November 22, 2007, 09:35:00 pm
And essentially you're saying: humans don't have the mental capacity to know God. And that means, any theory or definition of God is fabricated, since the true God is something we humans could never know. And it follows: any belief in God is false, because it would be entirely based on one's own (or an amassed) fabrication, not truth. And it follows: any action taken as a reaction to this God is also false, based on fabrication.
I agree that any attempt to fully define God would be futile. However, a definition of God is not needed to have faith in God.
thanks for the reply
Why do Ghosts stay in one place..like in a house
Quote from: MarioMania on December 11, 2007, 11:54:56 am
Why do Ghosts stay in one place..like in a house
Maybe it's like when a character dies in Maniac Mansion. You can still control them, but they can't interact with items. So, they're stuck in a room until you have another character open the doors for them. ;D
Very Funny..I forgot to Laugh...I'm serious
I think it'd be because they have some emotional connection to the place or person there. So, that's the best place for them to hang out. Don't know if they get around, but it doesn't seem like it, from what I've read.
I never give too much thought to what happens after death, but if Ghostbusters is any indication of what happens, I'm in no hurry to die. ;D
Again, my theory is that you stick around "living" your life as you normally would, not knowing you are dead. They stick around because in life that's where they would be. Once they come to terms with the fact that they are gone then they can cross over. I also believe you can be "visited" by a spirit or ghost or whatever. Perhaps they stick around in the one place because thats the only place they know of where there loved ones were.
Quote from: Flash1087 on December 11, 2007, 11:47:17 pm
I never give too much thought to what happens after death, but if Ghostbusters is any indication of what happens, I'm in no hurry to die. ;D
HAHAHAH well who knows about that ;D