Famicom World

Okay, here's the thing: I wasn't ever really planning on buying a Famicom (because I wasn't very into it at first) until I realized the hardware differences (controllers, mic, sound) so now it's just a matter of time.

But my only real concern is about the sound - I would really love to hear CastleVania 3 in all its essence, but here's a question:

Does the Famicom AV have the extra sound channels as the original Famicom, or did Nintendo go cheap on the hardware with that, too?

This is probably silly, but does CastleVania 3 on the NES have support for the extra sound capabilities (although the NES does not) I'm guessing it doesn't.  Likewise, Zelda for the NES probably doesn't have capabilities for the mic.

Pertinent questions. I don't have an answer for the technicals of the sound quality, etc., but I have been trying to catch when someone talks about a game that has mic capabilities. This is the meager list I've compiled thus far:

1. Takeshi's Challenge -- ?

2. Atlantis no Nazo -- get the "microphone power-up" and then yell into it to freeze and kill most enemies.

3. Legend of Zelda -- scream into the microphone to kill Pols Voice enemies.

4. Kid Icarus -- talk into it to try and lower shop prices.

Cool, with Kid Icarus, it was changed to simply buttons on the 2nd controller for the NES.

Surely there had to be more games that took advantage of the mic, right? ???

See? This could have been a great podcast!

By the way, was it just the Disk System that had the superior sound quality or was I right in thinking the Famicom had it as well?  CastleVania 3 & SMB2J took advantage of it, but they're FDS games.

Famicom games took advantage of the extra sound as well.  Gimmick, CV3, and quite a few others.  There are also quite a few games that use the extra sound just to say words.  I've heard someone say that the AV plays the exta sound louder than the old famicom and therefore didn't sound right.  I personally have not and cannot verify this.

Castlevania 3 for the nes uses mmc5 which has extra sound capabilities that work fine on the nes. 

The famicom version uses a completely different mapper that has built in sound capabilities that will only work with a famicom.  It can work with a properly modded nes and a properly modded famicom game to nes system adaptor.

So CastleVania 3, despite it having inferior sound to the Famicom version, still uses extra sound on the NES?

Well, well...
Too many questions here!

I'll try to explain one or two!

1 - There is no Castlevania 3 for the FDS! It's cassette-only.
2 - The Famicom AV plays the superb Akumajou Densetsus [jap CV3]
perfectly.
3 - In our brazillian community, The NES Archive [nes.com.br], we did
many tests with both Famicom and NES versions, screaming at the
Famicom, NES and clones, both 60 and 72-pin clones. We did tests
via adaptors, also, like the 2-adaptors test, when I played Akumajou
Densetsu in my Famicom AV, with 2 adaptors before it. The sound
in this bizzarre test was the badder one.
The Famicom AV sound is not different then the classic Famicom,
even in games like Akumajou or Lagrange Point [witch seems to be a
Genesis game sound! Damn!] that have extra sound chips.

Some sound tests:

Akumajou Densetsu:

Bit System [72-pin clone]:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/ADBitSystem.mp3
NES:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/ADNES.mp3
Phantom System [another 72-pin clone]:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/ADPhantomSystem.mp3

Castlevania 3

Bit System:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/C3BitSystem.mp3
NES:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/C3NES.mp3
Phantom System:
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/C3PhantomSystem.mp3

Finally, Akumajou Densetsu on the Famicom AV
http://spitfire.pixeltemple.com/gitanno/X_ADFamicomAV.mp3

Jedi QuestMaster, The Prophet recommends you buying the
Famicom AV [New Famicom]. The sound is the same of its old
brother, the plug for accessories is still there, the design - for me -
is prettier, and the controller plugs are identical to the NES ones.
The only drawback for me is the missing mic, but it's a very purism
matter.

Nice sound tests. ;D

Quote1 - There is no Castlevania 3 for the FDS! It's cassette-only.

Oops! :o

Okay, then I'll stick with getting the AV - thank you, Profeta Yoshitake.

Was the mic an obscurely used peripheral? Like the R.O.B. ?

Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on November 03, 2006, 12:38:17 pm
Was the mic an obscurely used peripheral? Like the R.O.B. ?

Exactly.
It is hard even to remember that there is the mic on the second
controller! Few games use it, and there is one game that uses
it just to joke, forcing you to sing karaoke for one hour!

I've been wanting sound files of AD on a famicom for a while!  Thank you very much!

Would it be possible to get an mp3 of AD on a regular famicom so I can show to those who say the AV sounds weird that there is no difference?

I am going to use your AV AD to make sure that my modified nes and modified converter sound right.  AD will never sound right in a unmodified nes.  The extra sound just isn't passed onto the nes properly.

Quote from: Profeta Yoshitake on November 03, 2006, 01:21:59 pm
It is hard even to remember that there is the mic on the second
controller! Few games use it, and there is one game that uses
it just to joke, forcing you to sing karaoke for one hour!

You could kill some enemies in Zelda by screaming into the Mic. The enemies that looked like rabbits!!! We tried it once, and it worked.

Anyway, nice soundtests! I have bought an AV Famicom and also Akumajou Densetsu! I am really pleased by the way it sounds.

Here is also a video comparison (recorded from an emulator though):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=TGXEPt852IY - NES version
http://youtube.com/watch?v=4SJaF8no9t0 - Famicom version

Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on November 02, 2006, 09:39:41 pm
So CastleVania 3, despite it having inferior sound to the Famicom version, still uses extra sound on the NES?

It doesn't, since the NES only supports external audio through the expansion port.

Quote from: Kreese on September 04, 2007, 02:44:11 pm

Quote from: Profeta Yoshitake on November 03, 2006, 01:21:59 pm
It is hard even to remember that there is the mic on the second
controller! Few games use it, and there is one game that uses
it just to joke, forcing you to sing karaoke for one hour!

You could kill some enemies in Zelda by screaming into the Mic. The enemies that looked like rabbits!!! We tried it once, and it worked.

haha I'm going to try that when I get home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2UtC_SwAfY

uploaded a videoclip we made! :)

Quote from: Kreese on September 11, 2007, 01:17:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2UtC_SwAfY

uploaded a videoclip we made! :)

Thanks I need that info for my speech

Quote from: Kreese on September 11, 2007, 01:17:11 pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2UtC_SwAfY

uploaded a videoclip we made! :)

YES! Finally someone did it. :)

Anyone remember me? I was looking for Akumajou Densetsu (still never found it, lol....) The first thing I would like to say is, I  feel like an jerk because alot of people here tried to help find this game and I forgot about this forum ever since the school year started again. I have question/debatable topic. Here goes: Would you consider Castlevania to be the epitome of rare collectibles including Famicom carts? (I know what our thinking back with Castlevania again? Well hey its my favorite series!)

No, I'd say there a quite a few more carts that are much rarer on the Famicom.

Akumajou Densetsu is relatively easy to find, and is always popping up on eBay, and online stores like JapanGameStock, etc.

Yeah, it isn't that rare at all.

If you tell me how much you'd like to spend I can look for it for you. Shoot me a pm.  ;)

are you the same TrevorBelmont from DigitalPress? :D

If so, I'll keep a lookout as I'm buying lots from Japan, maybe we'll both get lucky and I can trade with you?

There's several on eBay at the moment.

sorry guys but I don't have any money currently :(  (unemployed 17 year-old) we can discuss my question though!

The first release of Akumajou Dracula was originally on disk. After the failure of the Disk System, it was released on cart, pretty late in the game, perhaps after the Super Nintendo had been released. So, to point out the obvious, it didn't sell as many copies as it would have had it been released as a cart sooner. Being that there are few(er) copies, it's rare(r than most).

Akumajou Densetsu had no late release, so it is common and sells CIB for $15, give a few, in Japan. The price has been higher on eBay, because, well, it's eBay.

cool stuff

i have this mod http://www.famicomworld.com/Workshop/AV_Mod.htm it works with akumaio 3 sound on famicom? (mine have 2 Female RCA ¼ jacks)

where i can find a cheap cart of this game? thanks  ;)

Carts don't come too cheap, but if you watch obscure lots on eBay, you may find one. I've seen a few lately.

i've see on ebay but nothing

for the akumajo 3 special audio, it works with that mod or not?

I have read many times of the lower quality that Castlevania 3 has on the NES port.  I just want to know:

-is it a big deal?
-should I play the Japanese version instead?
-is there anything besides the music?
-is there a good translation?

Likewise, are there any other Konami games with the same situation?

The music is nicer and the graphics are supposedly better (at the very least, they're uncensored).  There's not enough text in the game to really worry about the translation.  If you've played through one already, play through the other.  If you haven't played through either, well, I guess I'd suggest the FC version since this is a Famicom board :P

Really? Is there no kind of prologue/epilogue?

Well, there is, but "go to the castle and kill dracula" pretty much sounds the same no matter how you translate it.

The US version has less special effects; here are some other changes from the US and Japanese versions.

    * Instead of using a stabbing dagger, Grant throws daggers as his main attack.
    * In the North American and European versions, each enemy takes away the same amount of energy when the player is hit. But as the game progresses, damage taken from enemies increases (capping off at 4/5 bars, depending on your character, in the North American version, and 3/4 bars in the European version), Instead, in the Japanese game, each enemy takes a different amount of energy away from the player. Many fans believe this factor makes the Japanese version easier.
    * On the final stage, if the player dies while fighting Dracula, instead of starting back at the level's second section, the player begins right outside of Dracula's keep (as in the original Castlevania). This is another factor said to make the Japanese version much easier.
    * The game's font is different between versions, with the Japanese version using the same font as the original Castlevania--a standard video-game font used in many other old games--and the western versions using a Gothic-style font (with some similarities).
    * Medusa has female breasts in the Japanese game which were altered in the North American and European releases to resemble a more masculine chest. The female statues in stage 8 are partially nude in the Japanese version. The statues were clothed for the North American and European releases.
    * The flea men in the Japanese game are hopping gremlin creatures.
    * Several enemies are colored differently, have altered sprites, or have slightly different attack patterns, including the zombies in the first stage.
    * Several stages have different color palettes than the Japanese version.
    * The original Japanese version contained a specialized "VRC6" music microprocessor chip which was removed in the North American and European releases. This chip added two extra pulse-wave channels and a saw-wave channel to the system's initial set of five channels. The majority of the music combines the channels to imitate the sound of a synthesized string section. See: Multi-Memory Controller. The reason for this removal was that the western versions of the NES didn't have the ability to support external sound chips, so the game was re-programmed for the western releases. Some of the percussion instruments were also slightly changed, even though the low-quality PCM channel was no less capable without the VRC6 mapper.
    * The Japanese version had slightly better graphics than the North American version. The backgrounds in many stages had special effects not seen in the North American and European releases, also due to the lack of the special mapper chip found in the Japanese cartridge (which was manufactured not by Nintendo, but by Konami itself).
    * Like Simon's Quest before it, religious imagery once again appears uncensored in the North American and PAL versions. The only difference is that the cross in the opening scene has bursts of rays around it in the Japanese version.
    * In the Japanese version, Trevor Belmont is named Ralph Belmondo.
    * In Stage 9, the background music "Riddle" repeats its first section once in the Japanese version.
    * The North American and PAL versions have several hidden features that can be accessed by entering a certain name for the player, which include starting the game with 10 lives as well as when restarting after a game over, the option to start the game with any of the three spirit partners, and to access the second, more difficult quest. These features are not present in the Japanese version.

That is all of the known differences. Good luck finding the Famicom version as they're somewhat rare.

I paid five bucks for my second one, the first one was ten to twenty if memory serves. They go for a decent amount though on eBay.

I just realized - I already have CastleVania 3 since it came as a pair with CastleVania 2. I got it cheap because the seller misspelled it "Catlevania." :P

So it might be one of those games I pick up afterward.

By the way, was there a soundtrack for this game? I don't see one on VGMdb.

I don't think there was one for the U.S. Castlevania III, but here's the one that had tracks from Akumajou Densetsu:

http://vgmdb.net/album/4586 (http://vgmdb.net/album/4586)

Still, I bet someone's made NSF's of both games for that purpose. There are some times when I prefer listening to the U.S. music over the Famicom music.

Of course, how often is there a U.S. soundtrack for every Japanese soundtrack?

And I typed in "Castlevania 3" in the search, should have made it "III" . :-\

Quote from: b1aCkDeA7h on September 07, 2009, 09:14:51 pm
I paid five bucks for my second one, the first one was ten to twenty if memory serves. They go for a decent amount though on eBay.

Care to sell one?

Nah, gave it to a friend since I got it so cheap with a bunch of other games I wanted.

I think it's a somewhat level trade-off. They get a better-looking/sounding version, we get one with a difficulty times 11. What was neat was, I had the two seperate carts, playing them side-by-side, you can use most of the same passwords. It took like three tries to be Dracula on the Japanese, about three days of trying on the US one.

I have always been a Castlevania fan. I wish they would have made a Mario All Stars-like compilation for Castlevania with updated graphics and sound.

I play the NES Castlevania 3 because my favorite character, Grant Danasty, actually plays better (in my opinion) since he stabs with his dagger rather than throwing them. That and it's in English. The Japanese Castlevania 3 seems to be more of a novelty with it's extra sound and enhanced graphics and is fundamentally the same game.

I actually have both versions of the game, and sometimes the "enhanced" music is more distracting than immersive. The music comes out of a completely separate channel than the sound effects, and doesn't mesh well with the overall sound of the game, sound effects are always a decibel or two higher than the music. It's great as a stand-alone soundtrack, not so great in practice.

Also, I hated that the jumping hunchbacks were changed to little gremlin guys in the Japanese version. Glad they went back to hunchbacks in the US version.

Quote from: namakubi on September 24, 2009, 01:05:50 am
I actually have both versions of the game, and sometimes the "enhanced" music is more distracting than immersive. The music comes out of a completely separate channel than the sound effects, and doesn't mesh well with the overall sound of the game, sound effects are always a decibel or two higher than the music.

I think I know what you're saying.  When I heard The Adventure of Link's intro, it sounded too odd, & same with the ending of SMBJ2.

Often NSF players & emulators mess these sounds up, but FCEUXD is a rather accurate one, no?

Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on September 24, 2009, 06:54:45 am
Often NSF players & emulators mess these sounds up, but FCEUXD is a rather accurate one, no?

I wouldn't know, but this was running on the actual Famicom hardware and I noticed it right away when gameplay started.

I should run some personal tests one of these days comparing different emulators and emulator mediums' sound quality.

Both versions are on the Virtual Console so I can even test that.

Heck, with a Gyromite adapter, I can hear what the game sounds like without the expansion channel in a normal NES or even the AV Famicom (in the case of the Famicom, I'm daisy chaining converters).

Okay, after many years, I've played both games and it is my determination that Castlevania III (NES version) is better than 悪魔城伝説 (FC version) for several reasons.

Off the top of my head:

-well-balanced difficulty (ok, I admit, I didn't think so at first; I thought CVIII ramped up in difficulty way too high, until I played it again)
-the music, though downgraded, sounds better compositionally (just like Castlevania II)
-an added difficulty setting
-fixed glitches
-the HUD text is more fitting
-cooler title screen

Come at me! :diskkun:

Cv3 has a difficulty setting? Or you just mean the second quest?

It's much more difficult anyway. Check out changes at The Cutting Room Floor (https://tcrf.net/Castlevania_III:_Dracula%27s_Curse/Regional_Differences).
Castlevania III got quite a number of improvements and fixes.

I don't really like that all enemies take the same damage for each stage in C3 though. Even if it's better balanced it's a sloppy way to fix it. Different enemies should take different amount of damage or else fast enemies like bats will always be the most dangerous enemies which they aren't supposed to be.

Other fixes are good except for the censoring stuff (Medusa isn't male :-[).


Music is of course many times better in Akumajou Densetsu and is reason enough to play this version. It's one of the reasons I got a Famicom in the first place. :)

I vehemently disagree. Listen to Rising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VVGlQDF42g

Where the hell did the reverberations go?! I guess they didn't need them.

Then listen to Rising: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luxL5ufVTZM

Ahh! There's that harp sound. I also just like the minimalist approach to this track, because it's supposed to be eerie, and not hard-hitting like the rest of the game's music. But the rest of the JP soundtracks single-handedly elbow smash the US version, but because this is the best track in the entire Castlevania series, I win. ;) My opinion is right. Alucard is not Trevor. Castlevania III is a sequel.

Well I only played the first two Castlevania games for NES back in the day, so I might be more accustomed to the Famicom version. Though I admit that they did an excellent job in converting the sound to an APU-only soundtrack and I have nothing against the minimalist approach (otherwise I wouldn't listen to chiptunes in the first place).

And yeah Alucard is definitely not Trevor. Alucard is Alucard and Trevor is Trevor or Ralf.

What about it being a sequel? If I understand the English words sequel and prequel right, it's purely about the story-wise chronology. In that case it's a prequel to the first two Famicom games and a sequel to Legends and Lament of Innocence since they both take place before it.

Quote from: P on October 07, 2019, 04:26:10 pmit's a prequel to the first two Famicom games and a sequel to Legends and Lament of Innocence since they both take place before it.

Somehow you read right through me. ??? Yes, Castlevania is a sequel, but not to Akumajou Dracula/Dracula II, only to Legends/Lament even though they came out after Densetsu. But yeah, isn't weird they call it Castlevania III? Also Ninja Gaiden/Ryukenden III apparently doesn't take place after II. ???

Quote from: fcgamer on October 06, 2019, 12:03:51 am
Cv3 has a difficulty setting? Or you just mean the second quest?

Crap! Did I mess that up? Does Akumajo Densetsu have a second quest, too? ???

Quote from: P on October 06, 2019, 12:26:27 pmI don't really like that all enemies take the same damage for each stage in C3 though. Even if it's better balanced it's a sloppy way to fix it. Different enemies should take different amount of damage or else fast enemies like bats will always be the most dangerous enemies which they aren't supposed to be.

Also it's stupid how enemies get stronger in later stages.

By the way, does the JP version have this glitch feature? https://youtu.be/x-vrJD7hguk

Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on October 07, 2019, 08:32:03 pm
isn't weird they call it Castlevania III? Also Ninja Gaiden/Ryukenden III apparently doesn't take place after II. ???

And Dragon Quest III takes place before I and II, it's kind of common to have instalments in a series to not come in chronological order story-wise. Akuden is the third game in the series (if we only count Famicom games), I don't know the English word for a game that comes after another in a series though.

QuoteDoes Akumajo Densetsu have a second quest, too?

I don't think so. At least the second round doesn't have different looking enemies with new patterns. Although I have the game I haven't actually got around to beat it yet (I came to the final stage long ago though). I'm also not sure what you meant by added difficulty setting.

QuoteAlso it's stupid how enemies get stronger in later stages.

Yeah maybe, it makes sense to gradually raise the difficulty, but I think the Famicom version already had this. At least the later stages gets quite hard.

QuoteBy the way, does the JP version have this glitch feature? https://youtu.be/x-vrJD7hguk

Haha Grant fights himself. I don't know, I could try it out on my copy next time I play, if I remember it.