http://www.garoweonline.com/stories/publish/article_5837.shtml
Thoughts?
I've never thought humans should be the ones deciding who lives and who dies, but this dude deserves some very harsh punishment nonetheless.
I did a report on capital punishment last week in Political Science & found many interesting facts.
I, too, believe we shouldn't decide against people's right to live. It violates the entire Constitution altogether. Wasn't it based on natural rights "life, liberty, & property?" Not to mention unusual punishment.
By the way, how are they going to kill him, hanging?
They're gonna tie a rope around his neck and watch it snap.
I say tie him up, blind-fold him, and place him in a room full of the family members of those he killed.
He tortured so many innocent people in cruel sadistic ways.
he's lucky. 'Death by Western Lariat' only missed by 3 votes >:(
Quote from: Stan Hansen on November 06, 2006, 12:35:52 am
he's lucky. 'Death by Western Lariat' only missed by 3 votes >:(
Thread WIN.
I actually do not believe in some punishments like the pennance of death...
I know Saddam did lot of awful things, but taking his life is doing the same
for me, it is eye for an eye...
There are so many people with more innocent blood over their pens or mouths
or laws that would demmand miles of cords to do the job... without getting
anywhere...
I'm guessing I'm the only one who believes "an eye for an eye" is the way the justice system should be...
Ouch. Remember Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes both the whole world blind.
Quote from: JC on November 08, 2006, 08:43:08 pm
Ouch. Remember Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes both the whole world blind.
...& equal :)
...& communist. :(
Quote from: JC on November 08, 2006, 08:43:08 pm
Ouch. Remember Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes both the whole world blind.
So if a child rapist were convicted of life for raping 12 kids, you'd be fine? Do you realize most of them ENJOY living in prison? They basically eat and sleep for free! Not to mention there's things like weight rooms in prisons now.
Quote from: FamicomJL on November 09, 2006, 04:05:44 am
Quote from: JC on November 08, 2006, 08:43:08 pm
Ouch. Remember Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes both the whole world blind.
So if a child rapist were convicted of life for raping 12 kids, you'd be fine? Do you realize most of them ENJOY living in prison? They basically eat and sleep for free! Not to mention there's things like weight rooms in prisons now.
So what's your solution, rape the rapist? :P
Fuck you, Jedi. Fuck you! We think very similarly. :-\
I was going to post the exact same thing, but decided against it because I didn't want to stir things up any more than how much things had already been stirred. :D
Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on November 09, 2006, 07:04:25 am
Quote from: FamicomJL on November 09, 2006, 04:05:44 am
Quote from: JC on November 08, 2006, 08:43:08 pm
Ouch. Remember Ghandi: An eye for an eye makes both the whole world blind.
So if a child rapist were convicted of life for raping 12 kids, you'd be fine? Do you realize most of them ENJOY living in prison? They basically eat and sleep for free! Not to mention there's things like weight rooms in prisons now.
So what's your solution, rape the rapist? :P
YES! Get some old and nasty guy to do it.
You really think putting them in prison for ten years, them ENJOYING prison, and the coming out and raping more kids REALLY SOLVES ANYTHING?!
Quote from: JC on November 09, 2006, 08:11:09 am
Fuck you, Jedi. Fuck you! We think very similarly. :-\
I was going to post the exact same thing, but decided against it because I didn't want to stir things up any more than how much things had already been stirred. :D
That's funny; after my report the next week someone else covered the death penalty & had the same information I did (except he pretty much read from his sources & I could mouth exactly what he was going to say "an eye for an eye, life for a life."
Whether we like it or not, punishment is set around vengeance. We'd like to think we're better than that, however.
Some say that the death penalty is too cruel | Some say it's not cruel enough:
A man commits murder, or rape, is sentenced to death, is put on death row, & is killed by lethal injection. People believe that's an easy way out: what lies in the afterlife, it's not our problem.
But some believe the process of lethal injection can be really painful.
Of course - there haven't been any testimonials from the other side. ;D
My favorite (?) story was about hangings in the old days. Most people don't know that the purpose of hangings, at least from what I've read, is not to suffocate someone but to break their neck when you kick the stool from underneath their feet. Often times those doing the hangings didn't know how to properly tie the knot and place it in the proper position next to the head so that the neck would snap. So, of course, there was poor old Joe whose neck didn't break, hanging there, slowly being choked by the rope, a scene that could last many minutes depending on where the rope was pushing in on his neck. Family and friends of Joe in the crowd would often see this happening and think it so unbearable that they'd run up to old Joe and yank on his legs to try and break his neck.
And lethal injection. I've heard about the injections not working properly, so the criminal (?) has his muscles paralyzed but his mind and nerve endings still functioning. So, he could feel his body being poisoned and dying.
Quote from: JC on November 09, 2006, 02:59:53 pm
So, he could feel his body being poisoned and dying.
And that's a bad thing?
I'll answer that question only if you answer Jedi's eye-for-an-eye rape question.
I did!
Hmm. I hate when the page jumps after 10 posts! Didn't notice your post...but really? Let an old nasty guy rape the rapist? Then what do you do to the rapist of the rapist? Can't let him go without punishment for doing the same thing the original rapist did, right? Or are you saying rape, in the case of retaliation, should be legal?
Are you asking me if I think that if a guy rapes someone, then the victim should go hire somebody without consent of a court to rape him?
Nope. But strange to think you might accept court-approved rape.
Quote from: FamicomJL on November 09, 2006, 03:02:14 pm
Quote from: JC on November 09, 2006, 02:59:53 pm
So, he could feel his body being poisoned and dying.
And that's a bad thing?
Yes, because I don't believe that violence (i.e. pain) is any more of a solution than incarceration. The death penalty has proven itself not to be a deterrant; we've still got murders. Incarceration doesn't do the trick either. I don't think violent human reactions to circumstances are a problem that can be solved. I'd much rather life without parole than killing off anyone (especially since some who are killed turn out to be found innocent later on).
Quote from: JC on November 09, 2006, 09:13:12 pm
Yes, because I don't believe that violence (i.e. pain) is any more of a solution than incarceration. The death penalty has proven itself not to be a deterrant; we've still got murders.
Well duh! There are lots of stupid people out there who will still murder. Someone was recently killed by a construction worker because she was telling him to keep the noise down a little!
QuoteI'd much rather life without parole than killing off anyone (especially since some who are killed turn out to be found innocent later on).
I'll just make the point that seems to went unreplied in the page before:
They'll ENJOY being put in life in prison! They'll enjoy the fact that they're still living instead of death. Do you now realize that prison has become more like an activity center? Some prisons even have computer and internet access! A lot of people's perceptions of life in prison is that the imagine the criminal sitting in a bed with his head facing the floor for 24 hours, which is not true at all.
I don't think the purpose of prison is to be a hell on Earth. I could be wrong. I always thought the purpose of prison was to separate the criminals from the rest of the human bunch. I don't think criminals should be living in luxury, but there's no reason to treat them worse than dogs...they're still human, even if criminal humans. They should be allowed to be active within their prison walls. If anything, it's the few small joys they have in prison that will give them hope of improving themselves. But again, we're talking about death penalty criminals...and once locked away, they'll never be seen by non-criminal society again. Hence, rehabilitation is not required.
This all comes back to the original question: should humans be deciding who deserves death? Or to put it another way: Should Christian humans, of which many who make these decision are, be going against the commands of their own god and the teachings of their own savior? Quite the predicament.
Unfortunately when we're talking about moral issues, we can't leave the basis for many people's morality out of it. Anyway, I'm getting tired of this thread. It's run it's course, and now it's just gonna keep going in circles. Maybe that's why humans have yet to come to any conclusions on the issue.
(aww come on JC, this is fun. We need more off-topic debates like this. :))
Quoteeven if criminal humans
I don't consider people who rape 4 year old girls "humans".
QuoteIf anything, it's the few small joys they have in prison that will give them hope of improving themselves.
Which only happens in fairy tales. The sad truth is that most people who come out of jail commit the same crime and return only a few months later. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Quoteshould humans be deciding who deserves death?
If humans didn't, who would?
Quote from: FamicomJL on November 10, 2006, 01:28:25 pm
Quoteshould humans be deciding who deserves death?
If humans didn't, who would?
Since JC insisted on it...
God :)
This is a tricky topic to address, I have been following this topic for a while, and all three of you have valid points. I would have to say, that first of all, our lives are numbered. God knows, from the moment of our conception, how long each of us have on this earth.
I believe that life without the possibility of parole in a maximum security penitentiary is the ultimate solution for murders. A "murderer" is what Saddam is. Does he deserve to be killed, maybe even tortured in the same way that so many innocent people under his ruling fell victim to? He probably does, but that is not our decision, and by killing him, in turn, murder is committed. Does that make the court system any better than he is?
Ultimately, his punishment will happen after death, for all who have not accepted Jesus Christ as their personal saviour will not enter Heaven. ...for the only way for us, as imperfect humman beings, and in turn as sinners, to enter the gates of Heaven is through the son.
In prison, he will be kept away from the public, and have all the time he needs to think about what he has done. Of course, this will also provide time for him to repent as a sinner.
>>I know where you are comming form FamicomJL, "Justice must be served!", and it shall, but not by our hands. God created us, and it is his decision. Revenge shall be his.
>>I also know that you will probably have a conniption fit over this post, after that last post of yours, Jedi QuestMaster, but why not bing God into this? It is a world without God that is causing so much trouble in this world today.
They should impale him, but not before forcing him to listen to an Eminem CD.
Quote from: super56k on November 10, 2006, 07:28:03 pm
Does he deserve to be killed, maybe even tortured in the same way that so many innocent people under his ruling fell victim to? He probably does, but that is not our decision, and by killing him, in turn, murder is committed. Does that make the court system any better than he is?
My point exactly. It's a matter of having compassion even for the most vile of humans, because, though it's not in out nature to be compassionate under the circumstances, it's what the transcendent morality asks of us.
Yeah, I think he was executed 2 hours ago now.