Sorry if theres already a topic like this, i just want to know everyone's opinion.
Mine is Magical Taruruto Kun for the Famicom! Simply put, it is the most cruel game ive ever played.
Super Mario Frustrat- Oh, real games? Recca, I guess. Some games are really difficult, but I can't really think of the single hardest game I've ever played.
Zombies Ate my neighbors. So hard especially those latter 25 or later levels. Those giant Ants are insane! Nevermind the giant baby running around the mall like it''s his playpen.
Single hardest game I ever played was Shinobi on PS2, but I love that game.
Hardest Famicom game I played would be something like Mr Gimmick's hack of Gimmick! I know it's not official, but it reminded me of Shinobi on PS2 - hard but fair if you know what I mean. I think stupidly hard games that are also 'unfair' are better described as broken games.
If you fail miserably at a game it should be because you're not learning, not because the game gives no other option through poor design.
Yeah, these are all pretty tough. Ill have to try shinobi on ps2! Im surprised noones said the obvious, like battletoads or something.
Battletoads is hard sure but you can learn the pattern. Imagine that amount of timing skill needed PLUS a little luck thrown in and you are close to Shinobi on super hard. BUT the gameplay is amazing and frenetic. Check out some speedruns on YouTube it's intense. Very old school style of play too. I'd really love to see a 2D retro version I've been meaning to mock one up for ages.
Super Pitfall is just impossible with all of the glitches.
Monster Party is freaking ridiculous with the difficulty, but it's really tough for all the wrong reasons.
Quote from: MasterDisk on November 13, 2009, 01:06:40 pm
Lode Runner II on some kind of old computer (I don't remember if it's a Apple II or another computer)
I thought of saying Lode Runner actually, I played it with a girl who never plays games and she was really good at it (or I was really bad) - so my excuse was that it was a really hard game :D
yie are kung fu for the famicom. cant get past the swinging chane
LOL i love yie ar kung fu. I beat the game! It looped to 00.
For some reason I find some of these "hardest games" ever not so hard, like:
-Battletoads
-Double Dragon 3
-(Mike Tyson's) Punch Out!!
-TMNT
Since there are different levels of "hard" , I find it better to categorize them:
Frustrating:
These games usually aren't really hard, the obstacles are just so annoying you can't concentrate well enough to get through said obstacles, usu. because you have to keep repeating the same parts of levels you beat 100 times in a row but can't beat the next part on your first, second, third, or even tenth try.
-Ghosts 'n Goblins (man, you have to beat that freakin' thing twice, freakin' Crapcom! Plus, it wasn't even developed by them. Outsourcing can be a bad thing)
-Perfect Dark (there, I said it!)
-Star Fox (Why am I the only one who had trouble with this? Beating this game was a serious miracle because I was down to my last life after losing countless others on Andross & suddenly I "lucked out" at the very last shred of hope)
-Street Fighter 2010: The Final Fight (I can't believe I actually had to use Game Genie to beat this game!)
-Super Mario Bros. 2: This is not Super Mario Bros. 2 USA
Challenging:
These are what all "hard games" are aspiring to be, with a lower-than-usual level of head-inducing trauma, these gems stand out far from the crowd... very, very far
-Bionic Commando
-GoldenEye
-Gradius II
-Super C
Meticulous Memorizing of Repetitive Pattern Guesses (MMORPG):
These are the games you will not beat the first time around, either because you simply won't know what obstacle is going to happen next in time to sufficiently avoid it, or because you're too dumb to use the 'pause' button as a lifeline (hey, it's all fair game):
-Battletoads
-Donkey Kong Country (to a lesser extent)
-Ninja Gaiden
-Back to the Future (DeLorean part - I think, unless the cracks in the street are placed at random)
Last (& least), due to laziness &/or the creations of subsidiary companies such as (dare I say it?)
LJN! (http://www.websitegoodies.com/smilies/sick0021.gif) we have an accidental category that attests the wholeheartedly good idea of final testing & not setting release dates. We have:
Glitches!
These games are not hard, they're nearly impossible, if not impossible, to humanly beat usu. because some mofo decided to "tweak" the physics without running one last final playthrough... or only running one last final playthrough. We have:
-Action 52 ( I haven't even played through half these games yet because some of them won't even let me "jump" right, or start up)
-Gotcha (Is it just me, or did I miss something? You're a one-man army against two teams - everyone shoots at you, regardless of their color)
-X-Men (this game cannot be beat, for the code printed on the front of the label that you are supposed to enter after beating every stage is wrong - unless you knew that.)
Interesting links:
http://www.retrojunk.com/details_articles/2161/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30834121/ns/technology_and_science-games/
Good list jedi. About games that somepeople think are hard, but arent, i feel that way about silver surfer. Its been called the hardest game ever, but ive beaten it a few times. Took some effort, but its not too difficult.
Awesome stuff Jedi I do agree with your post right there.
Some can get frustrating but once you get passed it, you get the best feeling in the world only to die at the beginning of the next harder level lol...
One of the more recent games I put a strong effort into, but couldn't beat, was Holy Diver. There are certainly other games I've had trouble with (Kid Icarus), but not that I've tried to make a point of beating, so I'm uncertain how hard they really are. I can get to the boss of stage 4 (in Holy Diver) without a single hit (once everything was memorized), but just can't beat that boss. One day I'll likely try again, as it's a great game, but that Eye Tower thing is ridiculous (largely due to the flickering shots that have a chance of knocking you to your death in one hit [and of course I'm basing this on playing the actual cart--a rom I could save right before the the boss room would certainly make it easier]).
Otherwise, I was able to beat Battletoads with little difficulty as a kid. If I were to play it today, I'd probably put it in the Kid Icarus file of being too frustrating to bother with, but as a kid, I didn't have the option of playing many other games, so it was easy to enjoy focusing on the one and doing it over and over until everything was memorized. I was able to beat every game I had as a kid (expect for the Gauntlet games). Oh, and I've never beaten Ghosts 'n' Goblins, and I did try at one point.
So, Holy Diver and Ghosts 'n' Goblins for sure.
La-Mulana. Basically a huge love note to the MSX, which is great. But also insanely hard. I do love it though. the game and English pat ch can be found here.
http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=lamulana
Championship Lode Runner for Famicom, also. >_> That one is just unreasonable. But it's for experienced Lode Runner players, like SMB2J was to SMB.
I seriously cannot get past the first level of NES, Ghosts N Goblins.
That game is insanely difficult, no kid in the 80's would have enjoyed that game. ::)
Quote from: The Uninvited Gremlin on November 22, 2009, 12:51:45 pm
I seriously cannot get past the first level of NES, Ghosts N Goblins.
That game is insanely difficult, no kid in the 80's would have enjoyed that game. ::)
I liked every game I could get my hands on back then... and early 90s...
Need to add something to my list here...
Solomon's Key is much harder than I expected. Fire 'N Ice (Solomon's Key 2) is much easier, and I had played and beaten that before. They really aren't similar games at all. Solomon's Key is more focused on physical movement, and it can be a bit of a pain controlling the character IMO. Doubt I'll ever bother trying to beat Solomon's Key...
>:( Bloody Dragons Lair for NES. Its imposible. Glad I didnt have to pay anything for it. NOW I know why :P
Quote from: The Uninvited Gremlin on November 22, 2009, 12:51:45 pm
I seriously cannot get past the first level of NES, Ghosts N Goblins.
That game is insanely difficult, no kid in the 80's would have enjoyed that game. ::)
That game is hard, If it's hard to began with
Why didn't NoA just release SMB2J?? if GnG is Super Hard for the NES why not Mario 2J
Ask Nintendo.
Hmm I would say Battletoads but that one can be beaten with a lot of practice still a hard game I have come across.
Quote from: Medisinyl on December 11, 2009, 01:32:41 pm
Solomon's Key is much harder than I expected.
100 times yes to this statement!
I just recently tried to pick up and play this game as my dad said that it was his favorite puzzle game, but he had to call up the hotline to get the later puzzles and such...
Besides the fact that you have to collect each sign of the zodiac, you also have to find hidden symbols by placing blocks at specific spots and then make them disappear. (If you've never played the game, you have the ability to make blocks appear and disappear at will.) These hidden symbols plus collecting each sign of the zodiac are the way to get the true ending of the game. If you forget that there's a hidden block in a room, you have to start all the way back from the beginning. Last gripe I have about it: Why is it necessary that you hold down and press A to continue at the game over screen?
tons I can name
Super c
Ninja guydan (I got no clue on the spelling)
Super mario 2 us (yse)
and I can go on, most nes games I can not beat, but still are fun to play ,
The Ninja Gaiden games are pretty steep, I'll give you that.
Looking back, I have NO idea how I beat Ninja Gaiden III without cheating.
I'll be using savestates & die hundreds of times! :o
Ninja Gaiden 2 and 3 get insanely difficult near the end (can't remember about the first game), but GnG still makes them both look easy (I only managed to get to the last or second to last level of the NES and arcade (psx port) versions, and it's actually only the middle of the game!
to beat ninja gaiden... you'll have to try and try more. and watch also youtube for tactics :D :D :D
my hardest to play
Famicom
- GunNac
- Ninja Turtle 2 Arcade Version
Sega
- Space Harrier II <<< I suck at this game T_T.
Playstation
- R-Type series
- Einhander <<< beat this but it takes lot of trials T_T
Zombies ate my Neightbors is somewhat hard after the first 25 stages but I'm upto 35.
The one that sticks out most vividly in my mind is Ghosts 'n Goblins. That game is so frustrating! Another one is Kid Icarus. I was never able to beat either of these games although...they ARE on my bucket list :D
Ghosts 'n Goblins is just evil.
Despite the fact that the NES versions was made by Micronics (See thread):
NESDev (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5133&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
the arcade version was still made by Crapcom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgsA01gJvQ
& Micronics went off of Capcom's "Beat the game twice" scheme.
Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on March 13, 2010, 11:45:46 am
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgsA01gJvQ
That's just WRONG! Part 1 made me sick enough. ;D
Let me just add one more game to the list: Mission: Impossible <- forgot about that one; was reminiscing about it just now. Good times. Good times. Wouldn't have the patience to do that again:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uiWoqvYi6rk
Final Mission >:(
and Green Beret on C64
I think I'd have quite a few candidates, but it may be tough to narrow them down. I think the toughest I have beaten might be Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, Ninja Crusaders, and Wario's Woods (all for the NES).
Though most of Punch-Out isn't that hard, it took me years of practice to beat Iron Mike (and that's with the convenient password I still have memorized that allows you to go straight to him).
Ninja Crusaders is ridiculous because you have to fight your way through a game with crazier enemies than Ninja Gaiden, and do it without getting hit because you have no life bar and no checkpoints. It would be impossible without infinite continues. It took me at least five hours across a week of obsessive playing to complete what is only about a 10-minute long game.
Those last 10 or 15 stages on either game A or B of Wario's Woods are super-hard, too. The garbage is stacked pretty much to the ceiling, and you have to be lightning-fast, error-free, and get a little luck on which random pieces you get to start the stage. If you don't have all three, you're toast within 30 seconds. And you can only get continuing checkpoints at every five stages! I obsessed over this one; I had to practice about two hours a day for about a month to completely beat this thing.
Other nasty NES games I haven't been able to beat yet:
- Ninja Gaiden trilogy - obvious, I know
- Ghostbusters - broken! Those stairs seem impossible without a Game Genie. This was one my first five games, so I suffered through way too many hours of this one growing up.
- Who Framed Roger Rabbit? The game is pretty manageable up until the final boss fight against Judge Doom. So frustrating!
- Ghosts n Goblins - I don't see why this one is considered a classic. I consider this one pretty broken as well.
- Ultimate Stuntman - I've been trying to knock this one for the Nintendo Age challenge, but the time limit is so strict and the platforming levels suffer from too many "gotcha!" pitfalls. This game seems to require memorization to beat.
.. Id say Macross for the famicom.. or transformers is a bit rough too.
I'll second that on Transformers for the Famicom. It's incredibly frustrating that you die in one hit, while confronted with a majority of enemies that require multiple shots.
Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on March 13, 2010, 11:45:46 am
Ghosts 'n Goblins is just evil.
Despite the fact that the NES versions was made by Micronics (See thread):
NESDev (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=5133&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0)
the arcade version was still made by Crapcom:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CkgsA01gJvQ
& Micronics went off of Capcom's "Beat the game twice" scheme.
I don't know why everyone craps on ghosts and goblins as being too hard.. This game has rock solid controls. Yes you don't change direction in mid air, thats part of the game.
You do have to beat it twice to get the "true" ending, but the second playthrough is a breeze once you do it once.. and G&G is a great game. the NES version is a *great* port, it's one of the best arcade ports on the NES really. very faithful in all aspects really Micronics did a very solid job. Ghosts N Goblins is one of those hard games that is done right imho. If you die it's because you screwed up. It's also super fun.. Even when I died on level 3 every game I loved that game.
Wow, I was an idiot when I made this topic. Well anyway, I second smeghead's choice of Final Mission. I've never played a more difficult game, and I doubt I ever will.
Milions Secret Castle --- with out having any guides or nintendo power its mind numbing :crazy: :'( :'(
The hardest non-broken game I've ever played is most likely the arcade version of Gun.Smoke; Level 6 in particular is just a nightmare to beat.
I would vote for Week of Garfield on the Famicom.
It is crazy difficult and I can`t get anywhere on it, but I love it. It is actually hilarious to watch Garfield die at the slightest touch and then the game immediately switches to `Game Over`.
Double Dragon 3 on the Famicom kickin it Solo is not
Easy but still worth playing. Out of this World SNES. by far most frustrating games at times especially when you can't make it past level 2. :(
Quote from: nerdynebraskan on October 27, 2013, 08:51:07 am
I think the toughest I have beaten might be Mike Tyson's Punch-Out!!, Ninja Crusaders, and Wario's Woods (all for the NES).
Ninja Crusaders is ridiculous because you have to fight your way through a game with crazier enemies than Ninja Gaiden, and do it without getting hit because you have no life bar and no checkpoints. It would be impossible without infinite continues. It took me at least five hours across a week of obsessive playing to complete what is only about a 10-minute long game.
Funny, you seem to be a much better gamer than me, but I really enjoyed beating Ninja Crusaders recently. :)
See blog here: http://japanspel.blogspot.com/2014/01/ninja-crusaders-on-famicom.html with videos and pictures.
Probably took me around 6 hours as well and for a mediocre gamer that's pretty good. I enjoyed every one of those hours. 6 hours is a short game.
I seem to have a different taste in games than most people have.
I still don't enjoy Duck Tales and Punch Out. :)
Ninja Crusaders is an awesome challenge without being overly difficult.
The hilariousness when you can't make it more than 10 seconds into a level... on the first 20 tries... Aaah, those were the games.
I think when one loves a game, one is more likely to keep on playing. I can't make myself complete Duck Tales, SMB or Puyo Puyo, but the crazyness of Ninja Crusaders is so fun. Crazy Japanese fun.
The Castlevania Adventure was really hard but I enjoyed it and kept on playing until I beat it. It took around 40 hours and I kept the game boy on during the night... (so thankful I have a GBC power adapter) If I hadn't been a game boy fan I wouldn't have bothered. I still haven't played any Castlevania game on NES.
Mega Man: Dr Wily's Revenge was super hard because I hadn't played mega man before and thought I had to take the bosses one by one with my blaster. Didn't know how to use their weapons against each other. That game took me around 40 hours, with the first boss Cutman alone taking at least 7-8 hours (maybe more). And I thought "wow, they say mega man is hard, but I didn't know it would be THIS hard just to beat the first boss". Of course, after that I have realized that it is the most difficult game in the series (maybe second to mega man 1 on NES). Mega Man II on the GB was like a vacation after Dr Wily's revenge. Seriously, after having finished Dr Wily late at night I thought I should try out Mega Man II and I finished it that same night....
Mega Man 2 & 3 on NES/Famicom is also comparatively easy, because at least you keep on making progress.
The hardest games I've ever beaten are: Castlevania, Journey to Silius, Kid Dracula(Famicom), MegaMan 9 and Batman.
The hardest games I've played is another story because I likely haven't played them that much, just a bit and then threw my hands up and went "NOPE! This is impossible!" Such examples include:
Ninja Gaiden - I think this game is great and fun but also too frustratingly hard to get far in, as it seems to me the enemy respawning kills the strategy the game aims for and it goes into just randomness which is impossible to plan for.
Battletoads -This game is just unfair...
Conta Shattered Soldier - Did they put any thought into this? There's just enemies everywhere and the bosses have way too much health and you die yourself in one hit.
Ghosts n Goblins NES - The stiffness of the controls kills this game for me, I don't mind the arcade or Megadrive versions as much but the NES version just seems poorly programmed in my opinion.
Blaster Master - 3 lives and no continues, that's unreasonable.
Super Mario Bros 2(J) - I say, that beating this game with Luigi, is impossible. The difficulty of the game coupled with his inabiltiy to stop after running...
FredJ said it. If you love a game you can't stop playing it even if you die all the time. Eventually you have learned all the traps by heart. Due to this I can easily get to the last level in Ninja Gaiden (beating the last level is another matter though).
Battletoads is ridiculously hard but try the Japanese version Protoman. I can confirm that it's possible to make it to the Ice Cave in TWO PLAYER MODE.
Super Mario Bros 2(J) is harder with Mario IMHO. Luigi is harder in the beginning because of his poor brakes but once you learn to control him the game becomes much easier with him. In later levels there are some gaps that pushes Mario's jumping ability to the limit but with Luigi's powerful jumps it becomes a cakewalk and you often just jump over several traps at once with ease. It feels like you are cheating sometimes. I would say beating the game with Mario is super hard and I haven't done it yet.
Ghost n Goblins is probably the hardest game I can think of. Try the Japanese version, no continues!! Arcade version also didn't have any continues.
Wizardry is also real hard. Having your entire party killed off by the first encounter in that series is common.
I also haven't been able to learn Luigi. I hate frustrating controls more than anything. Rather Mario, difficult as it may be.
I did beat it with Mario without warps, although I did use the 1up trick in the beginning and only had 7 lives left when i beat it. :) ( Blogged about that too, with videos http://japanspel.blogspot.se/2013/12/smb2-lost-levels-original-vs-all-stars.html )
I haven't beaten SMB yet on original hardware. SMB2j is so awesome that I love playing it. But I think one has the play an original version without save function, saves spoil the game experience.
I beat SMB last night with Luigi, but didn't have time to beat it second time round. Oddly, I did the whole thing really fast and developed a habit of running under enemies, turtles, hammer bros. and Koopa repeatedly.
Fred, I must admit that I envy your ability to laugh off frustration. I do a lot of yelling at my TV while I'm playing something brutal. (It actually freaks the girlfriend out sometimes...)
I enjoyed your review of Ninja Crusaders from your blog. As for the two-player mode, I find it much easier that way (assuming you're both skilled, anyway). In two player games, you respawn at the point of death like in Contra. (As long as you're both still alive anyway; if one of you game-overs, it reverts to 1P rules.) I was able to power through the game in an hour this year with a partner, even though he'd never played the game before (but he's someone who's beaten the Battle Kid games). It's also nice to use a diversity of weapons; we played through the latter stages with me holding the katana (for massive damage, particularly against bosses) while he threw shurikens at the especially fast and erratic enemies.
Holy diver is hands down the most ruthless, relentless, and unforgiving game I've ever played in my life and the hardest know on the famicom. The second to last room before the final boss with the wall faces is agonizing. When I finally got past the room this happened to me. http://youtu.be/lHqFCe8G-3E it was a devastating turn of events.
wth is wrong with the video? jumping all around.
Quote from: Jay-ray on July 15, 2014, 06:21:26 pm
Holy diver is hands down the most ruthless, relentless, and unforgiving game I've ever played in my life and the hardest know on the famicom. The second to last room before the final boss with the wall faces is agonizing. When I finally got past the room this happened to me. http://youtu.be/lHqFCe8G-3E it was a devastating turn of events.
That's pretty weird effect, this didn't happen to me while playing this game also on my Famicom AV.
Fortunately I did manage to beat it and almost all of the games mentioned here: Wario's Woods, Ultimate Stuntman, Ghostbusters (JP version triggering that infinite money glitch though), Battletoads (after beating it over 50 times I just remember every detail and beat the entire game in 1 shot), Ghosts 'n Goblins, Silver Surfer & Dragon's Lair ;D
How exactly do you do the infinite money glitch in Ghostbusters anyway? Also, is it also true that the ghosts in the ZUUL building move slower in the Japanese version?
Simply buy ghost alarm for 2000$ and sell it for 3000$ and keep repeating the best business in video gaming history as you like ;D
That's funny that programmers probably overlooked something like this
Quote from: Protoman on February 08, 2014, 02:58:32 am
Conta Shattered Soldier - Did they put any thought into this? There's just enemies everywhere and the bosses have way too much health and you die yourself in one hit.
Shattered Soldier is an extremely well-designed game and takes some practice to beat, but it's doable. I've done it myself, here's my 1CC, no deaths, S-rank playthrough (http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL0F8D806A99014FB0).
Also, for most games listed here, you're supposed to beat them without continues. Otherwise you can't really consider having cleared them. Continues are good for practicing, but 1 Credit Clear is where it's at.
Battletoads. Those damn hoverbikes! Now to be fair, I haven't put enough hours in to memorize the jumps and whatnot, I mean, I just get so frustrated and rage quit before I'm able to spend a decent amount of time on it. Also, is 2 player possible on an original Famicom? I believe player 2 has to press the start button, which is missing on the mic controller.
Quote from: Ghegs on July 24, 2014, 03:11:38 am
Also, for most games listed here, you're supposed to beat them without continues. Otherwise you can't really consider having cleared them. Continues are good for practicing, but 1 Credit Clear is where it's at.
I remember we had this discussion a while back, but I'd still have to disagree with you here. As an enthusiast of 1 credit/1 life playthroughs myself, a game is still, at the very least, "cleared" even if continues are used (within reason.) Hence why 1CC warrants its own term. It'd be redundant if it was absolutely necessary for game completion, because then it'd just be synonymous with "completion".
Yeah within reason. Beating some games that are really hard but has unlimited continues feels like cheating when you have been abusing continues hundreds of times.
Quote from: Zero107 on July 25, 2014, 01:21:20 pm
Battletoads. Those damn hoverbikes! Now to be fair, I haven't put enough hours in to memorize the jumps and whatnot, I mean, I just get so frustrated and rage quit before I'm able to spend a decent amount of time on it. Also, is 2 player possible on an original Famicom? I believe player 2 has to press the start button, which is missing on the mic controller.
Yes that's like the one game that requires controller II start button (only game I know anyway). But the Japanese version has the "1 Player, 2 Player" options on the title screen. It's also much easier than PAL/US versions, including the hoverbike section.
Quote from: Ghegs on July 24, 2014, 03:11:38 am
Also, for most games listed here, you're supposed to beat them without continues. Otherwise you can't really consider having cleared them. Continues are good for practicing, but 1 Credit Clear is where it's at.
This is obviously the first time I hear anything like this and also it must be the weirdest theory I've ever heard. Beating the game means you see "the end" screen or something like this after playing the game without using any cheats. As soon as the game lets you use continues/1ups/powerups or anything and you don't use cheat codes, you still beat the game. I have no idea where this lame quote came from....
Yeah, the hoverbike sections of Battletoads are pretty insane. They almost require memorization, or a huge reserve of extra lives farmed from the tunnel stage before it. And it's really harsh that they make you restart the section every time you fail; if they played under Contra-rules, it wouldn't be nearly so unfair.
I actually played a little bit of the Genesis version yesterday, which is easier than the NES version. (I've not played the Famicom version.) I probably had ten or more lives because of how easy it is to score them in the tunnels; the Genesis version often stops scrolling while the bird is still on screen (even after you've killed it and are just flogging it for bonus points/extra lives). I still only cleared the first hoverbike stage (which is slightly slower, for the most part) with one life to spare. (I've never beaten that stage in the NES version; I've lost my last life on the last handful of obstacles on my best run.)
And I'd also disagree with Ghegs here. Clearing a game is just a matter of reaching the end in one piece. Just surviving a game like Kiwi Kraze or Ninja Crusaders is a serious test of patience, and it is a profoundly-satisfying achievement to see that final boss blow up. If you're badass enough to take one of those games down on one credit (or one life), you've got my sincere admiration and I'll gladly admit you're a greater player than I am. But we've both beaten the game.
Quote from: MaarioS on July 26, 2014, 05:06:14 am
Quote from: Ghegs on July 24, 2014, 03:11:38 am
Also, for most games listed here, you're supposed to beat them without continues. Otherwise you can't really consider having cleared them. Continues are good for practicing, but 1 Credit Clear is where it's at.
This is obviously the first time I hear anything like this and also it must be the weirdest theory I've ever heard. Beating the game means you see "the end" screen or something like this after playing the game without using any cheats. As soon as the game lets you use continues/1ups/powerups or anything and you don't use cheat codes, you still beat the game. I have no idea where this lame quote came from....
Not a lame quote and not a theory, that's how these games are played in many places. It originates from the arcade scene where using a continue would cost you actual money. So players would try to see how far they can get just using a single credit, until eventually being able to get through it with just one. If you played these games for score, you'd notice they actually reset your score (or mark it as invalidated by adding a 1 at the end, to let others know how many continues have been used) if you use a continue, so all scoring runs naturally use only a single credit. There are many games that don't even allow you access to the very last stage or boss if you've used a continue.
Hence, 1 Credit Clear is the true mark of clearing games that use credits in this way.
Go to any forum or community that plays arcade games and tell them how you beat Metal Slug or R-Type with 10 continues. See what kind of responses you get.
Quote from: Ghegs on July 26, 2014, 09:44:37 am
Go to any forum or community that plays arcade games and tell them how you beat Metal Slug or R-Type with 10 continues. See what kind of responses you get.
Probably not showered with praise, but that wouldn't make the game any less "beaten"... it just wouldn't make it 1CC'd, hence, as I stated before, why it warrants its own separate term.
Quote from: Ghegs on July 26, 2014, 09:44:37 am
Not a lame quote and not a theory, that's how these games are played in many places. It originates from the arcade scene where using a continue would cost you actual money. So players would try to see how far they can get just using a single credit, until eventually being able to get through it with just one. If you played these games for score, you'd notice they actually reset your score (or mark it as invalidated by adding a 1 at the end, to let others know how many continues have been used) if you use a continue, so all scoring runs naturally use only a single credit. There are many games that don't even allow you access to the very last stage or boss if you've used a continue.
Hence, 1 Credit Clear is the true mark of clearing games that use credits in this way.
Go to any forum or community that plays arcade games and tell them how you beat Metal Slug or R-Type with 10 continues. See what kind of responses you get.
Don't compare arcade games to home consoles' games, it's a completely different story. For example, have you seen Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads (I mean the NES version) as an arcade cabinet?? You mentioned Metal Slug where you continue playing right where you left off, so that's OK, I'd agree with that but I would not when it comes to any NES/SNES/Genesis games. Don't tell me beating Ninja Gaiden isn't challenging at all even when you use unlimited continues. The game just puts you back at the beginning of the damn world....
You even mentioned arcade high-score games but I don't know why you started talking about them since we talk about games you can actually beat...
Quote from: MaarioS on July 26, 2014, 12:40:43 pm
Don't compare arcade games to home consoles' games, it's a completely different story.
Only in your mind.
QuoteFor example, have you seen Ninja Gaiden or Battletoads (I mean the NES version) as an arcade cabinet??
That's irrelevant. How you play these games has nothing to do with where they're available.
QuoteDon't tell me beating Ninja Gaiden isn't challenging at all even when you use unlimited continues. The game just puts you back at the beginning of the damn world....
I never said it wasn't challenging even with unlimited continues, but even with restarting the world you can just try it over and over again until you get it right. That removes a lot of the challenge, and I count being able to keep your cool from beginning to end while you're doing the 1CC run as part of the process. Ninja Gaiden even takes pity on you here, if you beat the penultimate bosses and then die at the final one, you don't have to fight the previous ones again. The game becomes easier after you continue, you're no longer playing with the same level of challenge as before. Beating the game without continues is still a nice achievement, and a great start for the 1CC. Now you know what to do, all you have to do is execute it in a single run.
QuoteYou even mentioned arcade high-score games but I don't know why you started talking about them since we talk about games you can actually beat...
Ah, here's the true problem. You're defeating yourself before even starting the game. I've beaten, and by that I mean I've 1CCed, many arcade titles and I don't consider myself a super-expert player. Going for the 1CC isn't as difficult as you may think. Sure, it's harder than just creditfeeding and you'll have to practice a bit more, but it's not some insurmountable beast from Hell.
Here's what I'm saying:
Playing for the 1CC makes you a better gamer in the long run and gives you a better appreciation of the games and the developers, because you notice things you might not notice when constantly continuing. These games, and I'm absolutely including Famicom titles here, can be beaten on a single credit. It's not impossible and in a fair amount of cases, quite doable with a bit of practice. If you want to get technical, it also gives you more bang for your money, since the same game will now keep you occupied for longer. It's a style of gaming that has, quite unfortunately in my humble opinion, fallen out of favor in recent times. That's why games like Dark Souls are so popular, because they bring a little bit of that old "Hey, I gotta actually practice and think before I can beat this thing"-mentality back to games.
All I'm asking is that you try it with something easy like Contra first, you might find you enjoy the additional challenge.
Namco's Star Wars is straight-up unfair. How do they expect you to get anywhere with no health meter and no continues? >:(
I feel like we keep misunderstanding each other. Are you trying to tell me beating a game using continues is less enjoyable or it doesn't count as a beaten game?? Hell, please explain it more, give me some kind of source or anything confirming arcade games and home consoles' games aren't comparable only in my mind. Comparing a fish to shark makes a lot of sense LOL. Home console games have their own rules and so do arcade games. I'd say unlimited continues don't count only in your mind :P
Most action games are ports of arcade games so of course they are very similar to arcade games (think about why continue is also called credit). Even if the credit rules may differ a bit on many arcade conversions from their arcade originals, you can't deny that you play them pretty much the same way.
Ghegs definitely has a point, I don't feel like I really saved the world in Ninja Gaiden if my score was reset several times due to using continues. But I think we should keep the terms "beat" and "1CC" separate for games like Ninja Gaiden that has pretty fair credit rules. Unlike for example Bubble Bobble which pretty much only punishes the player when continuing by resetting his score.
Quote from: MaarioS on July 26, 2014, 01:52:06 pm
Are you trying to tell me beating a game using continues is less enjoyable or it doesn't count as a beaten game??
That's how it is for me, yes. I don't want to take a mulligan when playing a game. If you've never beaten a game without continuing, you can't exactly know how the difference feels. Like I said, go play Contra this way. If you've already beaten it with continues, doing the 1CC shouldn't take too long. We're talking a couple of hours at the most here.
QuoteHell, please explain it more, give me some kind of source or anything confirming arcade games and home consoles' games aren't comparable only in my mind.
QuoteHome console games have their own rules and so do arcade games.
Just look at how they work. Like I said earlier and P just pointed at as well, these games have arcade roots and you play them pretty much the same way. What's the difference between Metal Slug and Contra? Similar games in theme and gameplay, both give you three lives, and after you lose them, you get a GAME OVER screen but also the possibility to continue.
What's the difference between Ninja Gaiden (NES) and Strider (Arcade)? Both are ninja-tastic action-platformers, you got some sweet moves, you can hang on walls, both give you three lives to start with. Notice how in Ninja Gaiden the screen even starts flashing red when you lose your last life, this doesn't happen upon dying for the first or second time. It directly tells you that this time is somehow different. And then you get the GAME OVER screen and the option to continue.
Just like in an arcade game.
At this point, you're talking about the difference between beating a game and completely conquering it. Many gamers will never completely conquer a game, simply because there are thousands of different games worth playing out there. Many, if not a vast majority, prefer to move on to something new after seeing the credits after the final boss goes down.
I do think the quest for utter conquest is stronger in the retro scene, since many of us have been playing roughly the same set of games for the last 20+ years. I've beaten almost 150 NES games, but I've only conquered about a third of that total. And most of those were games I played over and over in childhood, before I had the slew of options I have now. I finally beat CastleVania for the first time the other night. If I thought as Ghegs does, I'd go back and play it again right away since it took me almost an hour's worth of continues to get Dracula down. But to be honest, now that I've finally beaten it, I'd much rather move on to beating CastleVania III and then the Ninja Gaiden games. (That is, when I'm not busy knocking off obscure titles for the Nintendo Age Beat Every NES Game in 2014 challenge.)
Actually I'd still make a difference between 1CCing a game and completely conquering it, but perhaps I've already talked enough about the subject for a while. ;)
I don't count using continues as not completing a game - but I do recognise that 1CC ing a game is a different breed though - to me that's a hardcore completion and absolutely worth chasing.
For example, 1CC ing a game like Strider or Street Fighter 2, or even SMB1 is a harder feat than just finishing it altogether anyhow.
Quote from: L___E___T on August 09, 2014, 10:22:20 am
I don't count not using continues as not completing a game
What does this sentence mean? ??? Too many negations. :)
You are technically always 1CCing SMB1 when you clear it because that game doesn't have continues. But I guess in that case 1CC could mean one life clear.
I meant to say I don't count using continues as not completing a game ;)
On SMB - You don't know about the Up and Start Continue?? :D It is technically a cheat but it's so widely known that it's more like a continue option.
Ah now it makes more sense.
Oh yeah I remember reading about that trick in a Nintendo Magazine back in the day but I never got a chance to try it (I didn't have the game at hand when I read about it, and I forgot about it before the next time I borrowed it from friends). I didn't have any problem of starting from the beginning of the game and eventually I was good enough to never get a Game Over in that game so I completely forgot that trick existed. It's needed in SMB2j however, but that game has continues normally.