As you may know, Famiclones are everywhere in the developing world--and tons of them are tricked out with keyboards. Furthermore, since the patents have expired, these devices are now (mostly) legal! The devices are often sold as "educational computers" and typically come with BASIC programming and multi-carts.
Do you know about playpower.org? We're trying to support the open-source community that makes new 8-bit games... and then build relationships with the clone manufacturers... give the games away to the manufactures, so that the new games will be bundled with the clones... which means that the games would end up in the hands of millions of low-income kids every year. That's the goal, anyway!
This 5 minute video explains it all... http://poptech.org/popcasts/derek_lomas_open_source_games
In the process, we are trying to re-imagine world cultures through an 8-bit lens. Like our 8-bit learning games based on Hindu Mythology. Seriously, Hanuman makes a great game character. http://poptech.org/blog/educational_games_for_a_10_computer_news_from_indian_student_teams
Last december, we hosted a workshop in Hyderabad India. Our next workshop is in Sao Paulo, Brazil. As part of this, we've made a bunch of programming tutorials available at wiki.playpower.org, if you want to help make games/graphics/music. And we have a volunteer site at volunteers.playpower.org
We'd be really open to any ideas or suggestions that you guys have...
Any personal experiences with clones? Met anyone who has learned BASIC from the keyboard clones? Game suggestions? Or maybe you think we are sick and twisted for promoting 8-bit computers to low-income kids... I'd love to know what you think.
Cheers,
Derek@playpower
I think its a great idea, as the Famicom rocks. I think bringing such a console even in clone form to developing countries is a great idea.
Do you sell these units to regular people? Honestly, I think they look amazing.
From what I've read here, most (if not all) keyboard famiclones don't let you save your programs. It's very hard to lean how to code if you can't save your programs!
This sounds pretty good, I like the idea behind all of it. Hope you guys reach a good level of success with this. Would be interesting if there were workshops that had people doing all sorta of new neat games that piraters can't even dream of trying to accomplish.
wow, I'm so glad to hear what you're trying to do for the third world!
The Family BASIC keyboard was designed for programming in a version of BASIC called Family BASIC, and it also came with a simple music creator. Over time mouse support has been added and from the looks of the contents of your video, they've also added in some very simple games to go along with them as well.
If homebrew games can be made for these clones to up their software quality, I would be rather interested in getting one of these Famiclone keyboards myself actually.
I truly hope you'll get the support you need to see this project is a success.
I just watched the video now. I would suggest posting this over at the nesdev forums (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/). I think that's probably the forum with the largest concentration of homebrew NES developers.
I remember first hearing about this project, and it seems like a pipe dream so far with unrealistic goals. They need to take these ideas directly to the manufacturers of these products and not just hope to tack on these things later on in an add-on cartridge. They should be hiring the Chinese developers that make the existing cloned software to tailor it to the targeted markets, expecting free programs from the NES dev community is asking a lot. Money will make any of these dreams happen.
Instead of using off the shelf clones, they should really have their own version manufactured. Do you really need the ability to change out cartridges? You could save money eliminating the cartridge slot. Think about how the original 8-bit community used their hardware, an audio in/out jack could be used to save data to cassette tape. Not everyone could afford the expensive floppy drives back then, and cassettes were a cheap alternative. I'm assuming this is a good idea if internal save memory isn't an affordable addition.
Also, I'm not sure the mosquito killing game is culturally sensitive. There's nothing wrong with wanting to stamp out malaria, but isn't prevention of mosquito breeding is considered better karma? I'm sure it will be more entertaining than an educational clone of a Mario Paint game, whose original purpose was simply to teach better mouse usage.
Quote from: hiroshi on March 15, 2010, 08:12:59 pm
Instead of using off the shelf clones, they should really have their own version manufactured. Do you really need the ability to change out cartridges? You could save money eliminating the cartridge slot. Think about how the original 8-bit community used their hardware, an audio in/out jack could be used to save data to cassette tape. Not everyone could afford the expensive floppy drives back then, and cassettes were a cheap alternative. I'm assuming this is a good idea if internal save memory isn't an affordable addition.
i dunno, i think working with existing clones is probably the best way to go if the aim is to keep costs down. any change to the design would cost money, and there's no real need for changes as it is - there's nothing wrong with current keyboard clones, apart from the lack of a means to save. eliminating the cartridge slot might make it a *tiny* bit cheaper, but IMO the loss of functionality - the ability to add new software or use any of the thousands of existing famicom compatible carts out there - wouldnt be worth it.
the cassette thing is an interesting idea though. i'm honestly not sure how widespread cassette players are in the developing world, but if the average tv-owning household would have one it could be worth looking into. especially since it could be done entirely in software. although battery backup-equipped carts would be a million times better if its feasible (which i assume it is - waixing certainly used them, and they're still around (http://www.waixing.com.cn). they might even still have a factory set up to produce them.)
Quote from: mrdomino on March 15, 2010, 09:07:23 pm
i dunno, i think working with existing clones is probably the best way to go if the aim is to keep costs down. any change to the design would cost money, and there's no real need for changes as it is - there's nothing wrong with current keyboard clones, apart from the lack of a means to save. eliminating the cartridge slot might make it a *tiny* bit cheaper, but IMO the loss of functionality - the ability to add new software or use any of the thousands of existing famicom compatible carts out there - wouldnt be worth it.
I'm not just saying they'd save money removing the port. It's supposedly a $10 computer, but then you'd have to add their custom cartridge(s) to the mix. They're going to have to go to someone to get
something manufactured if this plan is real, they might as well do their own version of the famiclone. Providing add-on cartridges to existing famiclone customers should be the afterthought.
The original Family Basic saved to cassette, so I'm not sure how hard that would be to re-implement via their hacked version they're using. I think cassette would benefit over internal memory because the data could at least be shared. It could be used to save documents and "back up" data. This is especially true if they want to make use of the Visicalc program they were offered (for spreadsheets). If cassettes have finally disappeared from the third world, then, I guess my argument would be moot.
Quote from: hiroshi on March 16, 2010, 04:42:45 pm
I'm not just saying they'd save money removing the port. It's supposedly a $10 computer, but then you'd have to add their custom cartridge(s) to the mix.
In the video, he says the plan is that they make everything free. They're not going to put out their own carts, they're going to give the games, for free, to the cheap famiclone producers. They would appear on new famiclones since it would mean new and unique games for their multicarts and it wouldn't really cost them anything.
Quote from: UglyJoe on March 16, 2010, 05:17:56 pmIn the video, he says the plan is that they make everything free. They're not going to put out their own carts, they're going to give the games, for free, to the cheap famiclone producers. They would appear on new famiclones since it would mean new and unique games for their multicarts and it wouldn't really cost them anything.
If that's the case, they're going to need to be a little more proactive than simply making free educational famiclone software available. How closely tied are they to these producers? I don't think they're going to care one way or another about the free software until someone actually pays them to do it.
I agree. Without throwing money around, little is likely to happen.
Quote from: hiroshi on March 16, 2010, 06:19:28 pm
If that's the case, they're going to need to be a little more proactive than simply making free educational famiclone software available. How closely tied are they to these producers? I don't think they're going to care one way or another about the free software until someone actually pays them to do it.
Watch the video if you're able to, since he explains it all very nicely in about 5 minutes. He says they've already contacted a few producers and they're very interested. It's free R+D. They get new software to put on their consoles and it doesn't cost them anything.
i spread the word on www.chipmusic.org :) http://chipmusic.org/forums/topic/977/famiclones-to-help-the-developing-world/
great work with this!
I saw one on eBay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Famiclone-bizarre-Famicom-inside-a-keyboard-8-bit-NES_W0QQitemZ350195192985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Games?hash=item5189429499 (http://cgi.ebay.com/Famiclone-bizarre-Famicom-inside-a-keyboard-8-bit-NES_W0QQitemZ350195192985QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVideo_Games?hash=item5189429499)
If I had the money, I'd pick that up. ;)
I took so long to comment on this post because I was coming up with my own contribution to this awesome project:
133MHz's Junk Box - Famicom Compatible Printer Port Interface (http://133fsb.wordpress.com/2010/03/21/famicom-compatible-printer-port-interface) :)
Some of you may remember my keyboard Famiclone with built in PC style printer interface for printing hard copies of documents typed into the Famicom word processor (I did a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl1R4f5sKMA) about it back in 2009). Since these port-equipped units are so rare and the information about the is next to none, I thought I could contribute by reverse engineering the printer interface at a hardware and software level so that the PLAYPOWER guys could make good use of it in their programs. The hard work of driving the port is done entirely in software, which allows for a whole world of possibilities. :D
I've already submitted this to their site and I'm eagerly waiting for their input on the subject ;D
The printer thing is really cool. I would love to see more support for this interface in famiclones, especially in the BASIC programming section. I wonder how accessible old dot matrix printers are in the third world, and if they're affordable.
Wow the printer port is amazing ! I have simillar famiclone GLK 2001
(http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/consoles_files/famiclone/glk_1.jpg (http://jpx72.detailne.sk/collection_files/consoles_files/famiclone/glk_1.jpg))
but it doesn't have the parallel port. But there is a hole on the same place so I will try to add one according to your schematics. Hope my old robotron printer will work with it :P
Is the BASIC version on these compatible with the Famicom Keyboard and 'Family BASIC'?
I would love to buy one to make new games and ports some old C64/Apple][ games in BASIC! Where do you sell these and where do you distribute the games that you have made?
-Xious
If You mean the "printer port famiclone" from 133MHz's post - the BASIC (F and G-Basic) is on the separate pirated Multi-game cartridge, and Yes, the cartridge runs on original famicom. But I don't have Famicom keyboard to test the compatibility.
BTW: does anybody know how to type " (double upper quota) in basic? I can't type it on my famiclone, with or without "Shift". (maybe it's "chinese-design-flaw" of my famiclone, missing key or something...)
On the Family Basic keyboard it's Shift+2.
I found this site
playpower (http://playpower.org/)
(http://playpower.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/windows-on-the-tvcomp.jpg)
They are making and $12 famicom clone with an OS!!!
We know. Pretty cool project.
Quite awhile ago, we were alerted to this project by one of the people involved as MS-DOS4 pointed out.
Wait? what project?
I would love to get in there and translate that chinese to english.
Quote from: linkzpikachu on January 19, 2011, 05:44:32 pm
Wait? what project?
The one I've just merged tonev's thread with.
not what i was expecting, give me a real answer next
Please read the thread before asking questions. Both OPs have the link to http://playpower.org (http://playpower.org), which is what we're talking about.
I find it amusing that it has images of a CD-ROM drive, hard drives and floppy-disk drives; none-of which would actually do anything. Not exactly F-DOS. :)
Is there any website that sells a Famiclone with a built in keyboard? Would love to try one out.
Quote from: cobracon on March 09, 2012, 09:04:21 pm
Is there any website that sells a Famiclone with a built in keyboard? Would love to try one out.
Im selling,pm for details.
PM Sent
Extremely interesting! I support this project. Going to watch the vids and go on NESDev later.
When you do something good, something good may be returned. By helping Third-world countries with gaming, education, and programming, I hope first-world countries will benefit with better OS/Famicom hybrids, and smarter foreign programmers ready to make games and apps because they learned and loved programming, and have better families. A job at Microsoft will get these people better living conditions, food, clothes, etc. instead of being below the poverty line with terrible jobs, and absolutely no luxuries, and barely any food and clothes. Cheaper, and better educational computers can get the world farther. I may be wrong. Who knows?
here is mine famiclone :) With printer port! so cool! :o ;D but...
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05694_zps28d065d3.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05694_zps28d065d3.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05695_zps8b964d29.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05695_zps8b964d29.jpg.html)
when I opened it I was so disappointed because of this! : :( :'( >:(
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05693_zps875055ab.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05693_zps875055ab.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05698_zpsf01f8f3b.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05698_zpsf01f8f3b.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05697_zps949b7a42.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05697_zps949b7a42.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05691_zps07c421c1.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05691_zps07c421c1.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05690_zpsda7937d6.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05690_zpsda7937d6.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05692_zps51e66065.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05692_zps51e66065.jpg.html)
So even the parallel port was FAKE! >:( :fire: notice the missing pins! I do not even know how this part passed production line without those pins -crazy!! :gamer: :crazy:
then I decide to add missing parts! thanks to 133MHz I managed to do that! thanks very match :-[ :D ;)
and now printing is working! 8) ;D :crazy: the results are:
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05710_zps0f63fc46.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05710_zps0f63fc46.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05709_zpsab7589c0.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05709_zpsab7589c0.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05708_zps6d478c97.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05708_zps6d478c97.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05707_zps65eb0555.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05707_zps65eb0555.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05706_zps66fa8a2c.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05706_zps66fa8a2c.jpg.html)
(http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g113/IBMDOS/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05705_zps876ac054.jpg) (http://s54.photobucket.com/user/IBMDOS/media/MODS/Famiclone%20keyboard%20Print%20GLK%206561/DSC05705_zps876ac054.jpg.html)
:star:
Quotenotice the missing pins! I do not even know how this part passed production line without those pins -crazy!!
LOL someone took golden plated pins ;D Not only missing pins, but mistake in the silk screen(74LS
237)
Very nice compact keyboard, but layout a bit weird.
Another interesting thing is a line of holes next to the cartridge slot. BIOS subboard?