I have been following this topic closely and the first few posts already proved to be interesting.
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1829706#post1829706
I sent the owner an email with the hope to acquire, probably purchase, at least one of them so that I can dissect it and find out for it ticks, then document it for everyone. Thanks for the pointer mate! :bomb:
That would be me.
Has anyone seen anything like these before?
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-GLGQCfMuE98/TgdtAm3vvYI/AAAAAAAABHs/e7eksY9D2Yw/s800/IMG_2256.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-gEOFuvBJkVI/TgdtApdoxHI/AAAAAAAABHw/mZ7m46XWt_8/s800/IMG_2258.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-5VHAXhvZMsA/TgdtAgWmB_I/AAAAAAAABH0/i3ZmYWjPWo0/s800/IMG_2257.JPG)
(https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-hp5yiKkTThI/TgdtBadDfqI/AAAAAAAABH4/0FO9j0WQ7zk/s800/IMG_2261.JPG)
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-ErfgSxh33TM/TgdtBaShCyI/AAAAAAAABH8/_1FXwfFVkNI/s800/IMG_2260.JPG)
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-SirPGDsaggI/TgbNOsAC3xI/AAAAAAAABHU/xOveyQQxu2Y/s800/IMG_2254.JPG)
Seen, and had in my hands are notably different... Yes, Ive seen them in the past, but I've never seen the guts of one or had any opportunity to examine one thoroughly. I've also seen the ROM-packs used in the machines, but again, I don't know much about their internals.
I've been hoping to find a complete DW cabinet one day... That would be quite an amazing system to examine... :bomb:
Seems my curiosities are getting quite popular. I am getting emails and PM's from both sites from people who want to free me from my new children.
Obviously these carts are quite rare and the chances of finding them outside Japan are pretty rare.
However there may not be any data on them at all and there is no way for me to determine that personally.
Im not sure what course of action is best.
Quote from: Cheaplightning on June 29, 2011, 09:04:29 am
Im not sure what course of action is best.
Sell them to me. :D
Nah, just kidding.
The best course of action would be to send or sell them to someone who has the equipment to try and read the data on them.
Yes but to who.....
Round 1 FIGHT!
Tomy from Tototek.com comes to mind. And maybe a few others.
Some people have resources for dumping prototypes over at digitpress. Just one of the possible places to try asking as an attempt to excavate the carts.
Well, if you plan to pass me over, make sure the person has the following equipment (as I do):
CopyNES
EEPROM/PROM Dumper
Logic Probe Tools
Proper knowledge of schematic capture and appropriate tools.
Correct experience and contacts to go to for additional assistance.
Chances are about fifty-ffifty that there is little or nothing on the EEPROM or that it contains the datum to write on disk game; but the questions are how the DW programs the unit and how difficult that would be to replicate in operation. From there, it's a question of how the EEPROM is wired to the 60-pin bus (standard/non-standard) and if the design would work on an off-the-shelf Famicom; also if it contains FDS support hardware to permit this. :bomb:
CaH4e3
or
Tomy on tototek.com
There are of course two carts. If I had one in my possession, I would also pass it to Joe/Memblers and Kevin (even if I have to buy it), so we can all examine it. That's a three-for-one kind of proposition.
I''m not sure if this is Tomy's cup of tea, as this is really more of a curiosity. Cache maybe would want a look at it, and if I get one, I will be happy to loan it to any respectable, interested party, though I should have no issues fully documenting it on my own.
There are things to consider beyond the cart itself, and the guys I know could be fantastic aid in discovering some of the truth behind the truth of it. I won.t say more until I can see the guts, at least photos of them. I need to know what's inside before I assume too much. :bomb:
Memblers is only working on Homebrew... no ? Could be interesting to see with Kevin but it would be better to send it directly to him, right ?
Post Merge: June 30, 2011, 05:40:08 am
EDIT: I guess either Kevin (KevTris) or CaH4e3.
Kevin: http://kevtris.org/
CaH4e3: http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/
Tomy may do the job to dump them easily but I have no idea if he can find something in the ROM, CaH4e3 is a professional dumper and ROM hacker, same for KevTris.
Very nice, I'm really curious what these cartridges will turn up to be (is this grammatically correct ? :crazy:)
I have one PCB that is meant to be programmed directly from the connector - topic here:
http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7497
but those are UV EPROMS and not EEPROMS.
Quote from: MasterDisk on June 30, 2011, 05:31:05 am
Memblers is only working on Homebrew... no ? Could be interesting to see with Kevin but it would be better to send it directly to him, right ?
Post Merge: June 30, 2011, 05:40:08 am
EDIT: I guess either Kevin (KevTris) or CaH4e3.
Kevin: http://kevtris.org/
CaH4e3: http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/
Tomy may do the job to dump them easily but I have no idea if he can find something in the ROM, CaH4e3 is a professional dumper and ROM hacker, same for KevTris.
I'm close with Joe though, and we've worked on things together, and he's very close to Kevin. Joe's main thing is the Garage Cart, but he's very versatile, as am I. Kevin would be best involved if this has some kind of FDS mapper support... I rather doubt that it does, but the possibility exists. If it's just a straight EPROM wired tot he 60-pin bus, i can do a schematic capture in a couple hours (max) and publish the results alongside detailed photos and notes. if it has a custom mapper of any kind, I can ensure we document it in full over time.
See, you guys are more curious if there is datum on the EPROMs... They're probably blak, and if there is anything, i can hook them up to one of my test-boards and dump the contents with my CopyNES. Frankly, I'm more interested if the HW can be used to make boards that allow FDS games to be easily converted to cartridge format.
I'm thinking pretty far ahead with this one; likely too far. Any guy with a dumping kit can check the EPROMs, but it takes more work to figure out both how this thing operates and what can be made from its hardware that's of practical use nowadays. :bomb:
Yeah but now the best about this stuff is CaH4e3, no ? (Wasn't the garage cart made in 2003 and released in 2005 ? I know he is working on homebrew but isn't that all he does ?).
What is the point to send it to 3 people btw ? Kevin or CaH4e3 would dump it, examine the board and hack it, then send it back to the owner. Kevin and CaH4e3 sometimes hack stuff together. CaH4e3 recently worked on a lot of famicom games that had different pinouts or were working with a different CPU (such as VT03, which improves the NES hardware).
I know you'd like to get one in your hands, same for me but I'm thinking that it should be better if it goes directly to the good person. Also shipping 4-5 times may damage the game. And I'm not talking about airport stuff sometimes the games go through :p
But I don't want to go further in a WHO TO SEND IT war. It would be a bit ridiculous. The owner will decide what's the best solution ;)
Just put it on eBay for 1000$ and use words like RARE or L@@K in the description. ;D
also remember to type in ALL CAPS for maximum results :D
The point, MD is 'footing the bill' and being responsible for the cart, if loaned. In the terms of my offer, even if I sent it to a third party, I'm still liable for it. Obviously, I have the technical ability to document it, unless there is some super-obscure IC in there that requires more than a reasonable amount of time to examine, in which case I would send it off to one of several people in the Dev community that also have a professional interest in this sort of thing.
Being both a tech and a collector, I can appreciate both aspects of this item, and I understand I'll likely end up paying for the privilege of documenting it and providing that information to everyone., unless some terms are made with the present owner that prevent that.
Frankly, I'.m not terribly interested in the EPROMs, or any datum on them, beyond how the datum is stored for retrieval and how it is encoded/erased. Any actual game code would be identical to that on the FDS disks, and there are no lost games that would come out of a DW machine. This isn't prototype territory where something would possibly be different... In fact, the only possible variations would be from bit-rot.
It's the PCB and its HW that interest me, and I'd even be happy to post back the EPROM after going over the thing and buying it so that he could send it to Chris or G in case they want to examine the code (if any) further, which goes beyond my interests. .
Essentially, I'm gambling that thee is anything of value, in technical terms, regarding the PCB and I also would want to ensue it is correctly documented for the book that I'.m co-authoring for collectors (all systems). The rarity of this item is dubious, as there were many made (and still exist), but few are in circulation. The fact that two turned up at a junk market illustrates the potential for more in the future, and until i actually examine one in detail, it.s not even possible to say that it's genuine.
My overall point is that I can likely document it on my own, have no qualms paying for the priveledge, or even paying for any possible damages on a loan request, and I'm still willing to pass it into the hands of other people should the need arise.
FYI, Joe is a very skilled HW engineer, and you have to know quite a lot about the NES/FC hardware to make something like what he's working on at present. The original garage Cart was a few years ago, yes, but Joe hasn't been idle in the interim. This may also go hand-in-hand with another idea that I've discussed with him at one time.
Ultimately, it's a curiosity, and may as I've said numerous times be nothing more than an EPROM connected to a 60-pin connector, and may not even be wired to work with the D/A lines on a Famicom whatever; I've never had the chance to rip apart a DW machine to examine its design, and there aren't exactly a plethora of them floating around like Pepsi machines so that i can buy one to dissect it. .
In the end, either I come to terms with the owner or someone else does. There are two carts, and I'm not going to sweat it. Even if it does go to someone else, I may be able to pick one up from them in the future to go over it myself. I simply wouldn't really want to see both of these go to a storage box, owned by one person and never see the light of day again. I seem to recall you not wanting to sell your JY-120 cart because you didn't just want it stowed away by a collector for one game out of forty-five (which sucks for me, as I'ven't a clue what the games on it are even good, not owning one, so I don.t even know if your reasoning is sound), so it's very much the same here, from my perspective.
(I'm rather curious as to what else is on the JY-120 cart that's worth playing: Maybe someday I.ll find one to buy and I'll find out for myself. I'd murder for a legitimate SMB4 FC Alpha prototype cart though... Did you ever notice the SMB4 cart on the AVGNs shelf? I'm rather curious what that is, and/or if it's just a joke.)
Anyhow, unlike many people, I'd be willing to loan these out to respectable people in the community to examine without asking for money. How many people do you know that would do that? For raw prototype stuff, Scrybe is the guy I'd suggest as the best candidate; however, in this case, everything except the game datum is an unknown, so it's really a hardware documentation project, and not a ROM dump that's needed.
Additionally, I sincerely doubt that the average 'bidiot' on eBay would consider the technical implications of them either, but at the end of the day, if they go elsewhere, it won't change anything in my life... :bomb:
I don't want to sell my JY-120 anyway and if I had to sell one, I would never sell it to someone who doesn't care about JY and the other games. (Tons of people here).
Also there's a ROM dump, you can check the other games yourself.
And in which AVGN episode that SMB4 cart appears ?
EDIT: 1000 !
Quote from: MasterDisk on July 04, 2011, 10:55:31 am
I don't want to sell my JY-120 anyway and if I had to sell one, I would never sell it to someone who doesn't care about JY and the other games. (Tons of people here).
Also there's a ROM dump, you can check the other games yourself.
And in which AVGN episode that SMB4 cart appears ?
EDIT: 1000 !
As I recall, you can see a cart with the label 'Super Mario Bros. 4' when he pulls 'Super Pitfall' from his shelves. It perplexed me, but it could simply be a joke, or a hack of something with that as its label, which as I recall, was hand-written.
For the record, I don.t use emulators. I run everything on real HW, with the exception of some titles on a dedicated MAME system. I find zero satisfaction in playing FC games on a PC: There is just something missing in the experience.
I certainly like some of JYs games, but as I've only had access to a few of them, l can't say how many of them are even decent. They made magic by retrograding SFC titles to the FC, but some titles, especially Vs. Fighting games, are never going to work rightly on FC hardware. Others, like the DK Country ports are brilliant, but are tough to locate.
It's really a shame they're no longer in business, or at least no longer producing these games. Honestly, I found it difficult to get much in the way of information about them, in terms of their business, where they were/are located (address/telephone/website), etc.
They were miles ahead of Waxing though, and their flex-mapper is an incredible piece of technology. Hopefully Kevin does something with it, or releases it one day, as beyond just reproducing games, it would be neart to make new games that use it. I'd love a better version of 'Triforce of the Gods' for one thing, and 'Link's Awakening' for the Famicom.
I played through a good deal of TotG from Waxing, but the inability to both use the sword (or an item) and move at the same time is crippling. The music is terrible too: Couldn't they even
try to re-imagine some Zelda music for it? It seems not, as all you get is typical Chinese music that randomly changes whenever you enter or exit a building. The bosses are also a joke, as they rarely hurt you, and it doesn't look like you are hurting them, even when you are. The game's a mess, but it's fun to see TotG on the Famicom in all its 8-bit glory. (I think JY couldv'e done it with better colour too.)
As tot he 45-inp1 cart, when I get one, I'll try it out and see what I like. There must be a pile of these somewhere out there, and it may be possible to wire one of the more common games to support different, switchable ROMs in order to play the rest of their library. :bomb:
Quote from: Xious on July 06, 2011, 07:37:02 amI certainly like some of JYs games, but as I've only had access to a few of them, l can't say how many of them are even decent. They made magic by retrograding SFC titles to the FC, but some titles, especially Vs. Fighting games, are never going to work rightly on FC hardware. Others, like the DK Country ports are brilliant, but are tough to locate.
Worth pointing out that they only published the games, Hummer Team were the ones that developed them.
The mapper do not make the game. There's some awesome games on MMC3 and pirate MMC3 like (Master Fighter VI' comes to mind). It's mostly programmer's fault if they can make a good game.
For fighting games: Kart Fighter is quite good, Fatal Fury Special too.
That SMB4 game is a pirate, white cartridge like the SuperVision ones. Kaiser's SMB2j NES release says: Champion Brothers 4. There's also a pirate of SMB2j names Super Bros. 4.
EDIT: I don't know if the guy is checking still but I guess Xious could do the job perfectly. I got in touch with CaH4e3 and it seems he had not yet a good dumping hardware.
I know I'm bumping an old thread, I was wondering if anybody ever got to examine one of these carts?
Quote from: Xious on July 02, 2011, 04:46:22 am
FYI, Joe is a very skilled HW engineer
QuoteJoe
QuoteJoe
So.... Joe... And what is your name now, boy? ???
2 Phosphora "Inside the cat" should not be much interesting - just cart for Disk Writer Kiosk. Prove me wrong. ::)
P.S. was a bit overquoting...
Sorry for the Zombie resurrection.
I have decided to sell one of these. :redcart:
Feel free to bid:
HEREhttp://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150962743462&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150962743462&ssPageName=STRK:MESE:IT)
What's the reserve? Hidden reserves are auction killers, people don't bid just to find out what it is so I hope you don't mind letting us (or me) know.
I will say that it is LESS than $100.
Ah ok, that's something to consider, but I don't think I'm ready to pay that much for an empty cart.
No way you could find a famicom and try to see if it loads? Or did you already do that?
Can anyone read the Kanji? DK3? How many more of these do you have, the original DigitPress links are long dead.
It says shuuriⅢ and shuuri just means repair. I guess this is some kind of service cart?
Thanks P, dat cool.
8 hours left. Guess eyes got on it. Got way too rich for my blood. Hopefully this is someone on this thread that is going to get this for researching:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/321126590371?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/321126590371?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1426.l2649)
Strange.
I sold it to him less than a year ago and I have another one still yet he says there is only 1 known to exist...
Maybe he means only 1 exists in the USA.
Hehe.
Might be time to sell the other one!
I'd have bought it if it didn't have the sticker.
Hmmm
The one I have left has no sticker...
Perhaps it is time to sell it...
Its up for sale in case anyone is interested, no reserve:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-Famicom-EEPROM-Disk-Writer-Japan-JP-JPN-NR-/151052874740?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232b73f3f4 (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-Famicom-EEPROM-Disk-Writer-Japan-JP-JPN-NR-/151052874740?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item232b73f3f4)
QuoteI have a smoke and pet free home but almost everything I own is second hand and have no way of knowing the previous owners had smoking pets.
I never new that there are pets that smoke ;D
;D
Wahh it should have been sent to a dumper before :'(
I understand your feelings but I really dont know anything on the technical end of things and I had at least 5 different people emailing me here and on retrogame and through ebay asking about sending it to them for dumping and documentation.
Working the logistics of choosing the right person and then shipping it and trusting they wouldn't destroy it is more than I wanted to deal with.
I would also be sad if some lost treasure is forever lost but at the same time it isn't doing any good sitting on my shelf.
The way I figure it is if someone REALLY is curious about it they can buy it and then resell it later.
Actually I suspect that is what the last guy did after he bought the first one off me.
Or who knows maybe he decided now is a good time to flip it.
At the moment its $1.28
Feel free to bid on it, who knows you may get it for a song.
Quote from: MasterDisk on May 28, 2013, 08:29:30 am
Wahh it should have been sent to a dumper before :'(
And if the dumper discovers that the cart is blank, then its value quickly approaches zero :-[
Value is relative. It is still a rare piece of Nintendo hardware.
Even if it contains data it maybe not be a playable game.
I am sure we don't need to discuss collecting for the sake of collecting.
I should have VGA'd first. Then it could sit in its glass coffin forever taunting people with whatever mysteries may or may not be waiting inside...
Just don't disassemble first!