Thought this mod was worth sharing: http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7880 (http://nesdev.parodius.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=7880)
I tried it out myself and it seems to work alright. The PowerPak audio is a bit too loud and audio from actual Famicom carts is kinda quiet but it's well worth trying!
instead of resistors, try potentiometers. That will allow you to adjust the volume.
You also want a 1-turn=1000 pot with a range of around 1000 to 4800-Ohms. A lower bottom-end is fine; you don.t really want a higher top-end.
I need to amend this, as there is little need for a multi-turn pot. A basic 1-turn pot will work, as long as you select a good track resistance; 2KΩ is probably just about right, or maybe 2.5KΩ, as you can dial it back as needed, in an audio configuration. :bomb:
good that saves me having to try and find unused expansion pins on the nes 2. I have a game genie that I'm soldering a nicer nes socket to. Then I'll just wire the game genie as a passthrough with that expansion port pin swapped for the powerpak.
Ah man. If I'd known this I wouldn't have sold my AV mod NES top loader in favor of AV famicom. :(
You still made a good choice there. AV Famicom rocks.
I love the av famicom too. I did make a discovery that the nes 2 has just as nice video quality as the av famicom...I even desoldered the rf box/back plate from my nes 2 and installed a back plate that I took out of an av famicom and wired up a multi av to my nes 2 to a rgb / s-video / composite video kit
(http://imgboot.com/images/Drakon/caseback.jpg)
Don't worry the av famicom I took the back plate from still works fine it just has no back plate. It still has the multi av port and I soldered in a power jack that I took from a parts toaster after I desoldered the entire rf box from that toaster.
Still the av famicom is just as good and it doesn't need any special modding to add a multi av port.
And you can run the av famicom off of a model 1 sega genesis / sega megadrive power brick.
Thought I'd post here again in the hopes that Xious can help me out with this one. Anyway, when I use my modded PowerPak with my NES-to-Famicom converter, which has been modded for PowerPak audio, I only get expansion audio. However, when I disconnect the wire going from pin 51 to pin 54 on the PowerPak, all audio is normal. What exactly is going on here?
Oh my, it seems that I'm now taking requests. :)
The way I'm reading this, with the jumper wire inside the PP disconnected, you are getting no EXP sound normally, and with the jumper wire bridging (PP Pin-51 to PP Pin-54) you are hearing the EXP sound, but not the base sound? Is that correct? I'm somewhat confused by your choice of words ('all audio is normal'), as that to me means that you are getting properly mixed sound, which I presume is not the case, so i want to verify that in advance.
Assuming this is the case...
What resistor value did you use on the NES-101 mainboard? I would say that it is possible that the audio is overpowering the base sound, or causing distortion. Did you use a pot, or did you use the 1.2KΩ resistor, and (if the latter) are you sure you used the correct value?
If you used a potentiometer, did you wire it as an audio dial, or as a trimmer?
I should correct my original potentiometer values: Although 1KΩ=1 Turn is usable, you actually want something much finer with a base near 1.5-2.5KΩ, due to the audio design for the NES-101.The original suggestion was what I used on a different project, and I didn't give it enuogh thought at the time as it is less appropriate here. I think using a 1-Turn trimmer somewhere in the range of 1.2KΩ to 2.5KΩ, is ideal. (4KΩ is likely going to be far too high.) Log may also be preferable, although I have not tried a log versus a linear one for this application.
It would be easier if you could fetch an audio sampling somehow with rthe supposedly mixed signal, and if you posted photos of the modification that you have done (clear, high-resolution) so that I can visually inspect it and see if I note anything incorrect.
I would need to check your solder work, as there isn't a very good reason that it should have stopped working on you unless you ended up overheating something, or with a cold joint, etc.. Did this work correctly before; or did it give you trouble? :bomb:
Quote from: Xious on December 27, 2011, 03:40:00 am
The way I'm reading this, with the jumper wire inside the PP disconnected, you are getting no EXP sound normally, and with the jumper wire bridging (PP Pin-51 to PP Pin-54) you are hearing the EXP sound, but not the base sound? Is that correct? I'm somewhat confused by your choice of words ('all audio is normal'), as that to me means that you are getting properly mixed sound, which I presume is not the case, so i want to verify that in advance.
Actually, this is when I use the PP on a Famicom, not the top loader. With the jumper wire disconnected, I'm getting normal sound along with the expansion audio, but with it connected I only get expansion audio and no 2A03 audio, no matter the game. I checked all my solder joints on the mod to my NES converter and it all checks out fine.
You also wired your NES-->FC converter to use the modified PowerPak EXP pin and no other pin; correct?
If you are going to attempt to use the same pin for every system, then you should have wired your converter as follows: NES-72F Pin-51 (EXP-09) to FC-Edge (60M) Pin-46 and Pin-45 via 10KΩ (1/8W) resistors.
Inside the NES72F-->FC60M Adapter:
NES-Pin-51* o-------------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]---------------o FC-Pin-45*
| R1
|-------------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]---------------o FC-Pin-46*
R2
Be sure that pins 45 & 46 are not otherwise joined on the PCB; some adapters use one gold contact for both pins, or bridge them, or tie them to GND.
Should you also need fix the MMC5 compatibility at the same time...
Inside the NES72F-->FC60M Adapter:
VRAM /CE (NES-Pin-57)* o----------------------------o FC-Pin-48*
CHR A13 (NES-Pin-58)* o----------------------------o FC-Pin-49*
Be sure that pins 48 & 49 are not otherwise joined on the PCB; some adapters use one gold contact for both pins, or bridge them, or tie them to GND.
I modified my NES-to-Famicom converter like you described, but I'm still having the same problem. I get 2A03 audio now with games that don't have external audio, but for those that have external audio, I'm not getting the 2A03.
EDIT: The PowerPak's NSF player also has the same problem, no 2A03 audio whatsoever.
On the adapter, you only have Pin-51 wired for audio, correct? (e.g. not Pin 51 and 54,or pin-54)
Does it work correctly on your NES-101, or does it exhibit the same symptoms?
Please post photos of your converter so that i can check for any problems. :bomb:
Quote from: Xious on December 28, 2011, 11:02:46 pm
On the adapter, you only have Pin-51 wired for audio, correct? (e.g. not Pin 51 and 54,or pin-54)
Does it work correctly on your NES-101, or does it exhibit the same symptoms?
Please post photos of your converter so that i can check for any problems. :bomb:
I only have pin 51 wired up now, as per your instructions. I originally had it at pin 54 after I got the PowerPak. It works fine on my top loader, no problems there. I've tried my converter on three Famicoms, an AV modded original Fami, an AV Fami and a Twin Fami. Here's my converter...
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b144/ApolloBoy/DSCN0031.jpg)
(http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b144/ApolloBoy/DSCN0033.jpg)
Although it doesn't really show it in the second pic, both pins 45 and 46 on the converter are not bridged.
Disconnect the solder point on P-54 on the adapter first, then test and report back. I assume that you bridged the PowerPak P-54 to P-51 internally, on the PowerPak itself, correct?
I also think that either you need only bridge to the system audio input, or you need to use the two resistors in series. I'd need to check what I actually did to be sure; I only checked my reference docs earlier. The original mod that I saw was actually more like this:
Inside the NES72F-->FC60M Adapter:
NES-Pin-51* o-------------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]------o---------o FC-Pin-46*
R1 |
|---------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]-------o FC-Pin-45*
R2
You may also want to use a continuity tester to ensure that your solder points and resistor leads aren't bridging. It certainly looks as if they are... :bomb:
Quote from: Xious on December 28, 2011, 11:32:16 pm
Disconnect the solder point on P-54 on the adapter first, then test and report back. I assume that you bridged the PowerPak P-54 to P-51 internally, on the PowerPak itself, correct?
I also think that either you need only bridge to the system audio input, or you need to use the two resistors in series. I'd need to check what I actually did to be sure; I only checked my reference docs earlier.
You may also want to use a continuity tester to ensure that your solder points and resistor leads aren't bridging. It certainly looks as if they are... :bomb:
By disconnecting the solder point to pin 54 you mean leave the pin on the converter floating, right? I don't have anything connected to it anymore now that I relocated the wires. The pictures make it look like the solder points are touching but in actuality they aren't. I also checked the continuity and my solder joints and everything checks out on that end.
It looks like (on the NES-72 side) you have the audio output line connected both to pins 51 and 54. The FC side looks like pins 45 and 46 are bridged. On the NES-72 side, assuming you already bridged the connection inside your PowerPak, then yes, Pin-54 should be floating.
I think the problem may have something to do with how the signal is mixed using the audio in/out lines. If both are required to mix the signal, which off the top of my head I don't recall, though I think they are, then you may need to do this on your adapter, which is what has been proven to work:
Inside the NES72F-->FC60M Adapter:
NES-Pin-51* o-------------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]------o---------o FC-Pin-46*
R1 |
|---------[ 10KΩ 1/8W ]-------o FC-Pin-45*
R2
(http://atariusa.com/FamicomWorld/NES-FC-Adapter-PowerPak-Audio.jpg)
Note how R2 is connected to R1; R1 connects through to the audio pin (46 IIRC) and R2 joins the lead of R1 (on the FC connector side of the resistor) and then to the other audio pin, which I recall being 45. I think that one feeds part of the 2A03 signal into the mixture, and then adds the exp sound back on the neighboring pin. The easy way to tell is to disconnect one or the other and see if it changes anything, but I think that the way the resistors are bridged is potentially somewhat important here. I also recall that 1/4W resistors produced far too much noise, and that only 1/8W resistors are good for this.
Bridge the Famicom side with the two resistors as shown, then tie them via a jumper wire to Pin-51 on the NES-72 end, which is the reverse side of the board on your adapter (unlike the one in the photo). :bomb:
I've done everything you've suggested and I'm still getting the same results.
That really doesn't make much sense, as it should work; in theory, you should get mixed audio either way, and I know it works on my setup...
Is your PowerPak producing properly mixed audio on your NES-101 top loader? This is important (I asked before) because that would rule out if the adapter is causing this, or if it is a PP issue, or something else.
Did it work correctly when you had the audio modification on the adapter wired to Pin-54 and no jumper wire inside the PowerPak?
I used to have one of those Family Converter adapters; i would need to search for it to see if there is anything odd that would prevent this from working, but I sincerely doubt that there would be.
You can ring me if you wish at 908-616-8747 to discuss this. :bomb:
Quote from: Xious on December 30, 2011, 12:01:31 am
Is your PowerPak producing properly mixed audio on your NES-101 top loader? This is important (I asked before) because that would rule out if the adapter is causing this, or if it is a PP issue, or something else.
Did it work correctly when you had the audio modification on the adapter wired to Pin-54 and no jumper wire inside the PowerPak?
I used to have one of those Family Converter adapters; i would need to search for it to see if there is anything odd that would prevent this from working, but I sincerely doubt that there would be.
Yes, I get mixed audio on the top loader, albeit a bit bassy due to the circuit I used inside the top loader. It worked fine when the PowerPak was unmodified, and disconnecting the jumper wire fixes everything. I'm thinking it might be an issue with the Family Converter, which means I should start looking into another NES-to-Famicom converter fairly soon.
If you'd like, you may send the converter as-is to me to examine, and will see if I can deduce what's wrong with it. I need to examine both the solder joints and the PCB layout to see where the conflict is arising. I think it is trying to pick up the audio signal from both of the PowerPak connections, as if you disconnect the jumper inside your PP, then you should not get mixed (extra) sound at all, and games that feature it should have notable silence or bad sound.
Actually, thinking about it in detail, you should be connecting to Pin-54 for the FC adapter, not Pin-51, as it still has the original audio signal and there is no reason to swap it to another pin. The internal modification is bridging it onto a second pin, which is dandy on the NES-101 with un-amplified audio, but that may not sit well on the Famicom. It would be well if I could test it to see what is the matter, and try to both correct and document it.
Honestly, I would clear away all of the changes with hot air, and then re-build the modifications from the beginning. It's up to you if you wish me to look at it: I don't particularly want to modify my PP at present, but I suppose it's not much of a bother, as i will want to do this eventually.
I will be taking this into consideration when I manufacture my own adapters, and i am already making some slight changes to my design, which will include an internal jumper block or DIP-switch for 'mode select'. . :bomb:
(http://i68.tinypic.com/2jajad2.jpg)
Are the NES-101 pins marked on this picture the ones to pair with a resistor?
I have a (Honeybee apparently?) converter that came without a shell. Which are the pins I should connect with R1 and R2? Presumably pins in the front of the converter but which ones are the NES-51 and FC45-46?
(http://i65.tinypic.com/of4iv8.jpg)
Front
(http://i64.tinypic.com/iegp48.jpg)
Back
Double checking before doing something wrong.