I picked up a vintage TV yesterday off kijiji that was too cool to ignore, but I need some help from tv experts to help me figure out what I have to get the most from it. I bought a Panasonic 24" Color TV from 1984 that's loaded with features. I have no doubt in my mind that this would have been one EXPENSIVE tv back then. The TV in case anyone can find any info other than replacement parts is a Panasonic PC-26K79RS.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6175/6169253985_a36ab382c7_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6169253985/)
So check this tv out! it's a 24" CRT with a glass screen protector! I've never seen anything like that outside of arcade cabinets! and it's in such good shape after all these years!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6161/6167889229_08e0fb1dcb_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6167889229/)
This TV oddly has some sort of windowed vents on each side of the tv. What's with that?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6154/6167892143_3fee5589c9_z.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6167892143/)
This is what caught my eye. Notice where it says RGB?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6155/6168430848_43f1e7892b_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6168430848/)
The back of the TV. Check out all the inputs this thing has!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6169/6167895443_2a48555589_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6167895443/)
The right side of the TV has two sets of composite inputs (the first is on the right side) and two others I have no idea what they are/do: "Through Out" and "Program Out". Can anyone help me figure out what these are?
Also note that it's got hookups for external speakers. Pretty cool. I'm going to have to try that.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6158/6168511532_c51250c5e0_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6168511532/)
Here's the real star of this show - an RGB Panel Box(!).
I don't pretend to be anything of an expert on RGB via tvs, but I know that whatever this is it isn't SCART. I have so many questions about this I don't know where to begin.
There's a switch between RGB (TEXT) and RGB (TTL). What do each of these mean?
What is the olive green 8 pin connector?
What about all those other inputs? What about the YM and YS ports? the more info I can get on everything this panel box does the better!
I'm crossing my fingers I'll somehow be able to use this to perhaps get some RGB system to work. Perhaps there's some sort of TTL to SCART adapter? In any case I just want to figure out what I got. Thanks in advance!
The "vents" look like speakers to me.
The greenish connector was supposed to replace AV or Scart (I forgot) but it didn't work that well and ended up disappearing a bit after it was introduced. And you've got some really good TV.
Wow! Now that's a sweet find! :o :o :o
How's the picture quality?
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on September 21, 2011, 09:19:14 am
There's a switch between RGB (TEXT) and RGB (TTL). What do each of these mean?
TTL level RGB is digital RGB, as used in IBM CGA, EGA and some other video adapters of years past.
Regular analog video uses 0.3V for black and 1.0V for white, with the values between those representing all the grays in between.
TTL RGB is just like a digital input. 0V means black, 5V means the color is full-on. No steps in between.
At least we know you can use it as a CGA monitor for an old Tandy or something. :P
As for RGB (TEXT) I've got no idea, maybe something to do with Teletext (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teletext)?
Hopefully that's the analog RGB setting you're after. :bub:
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on September 21, 2011, 09:19:14 am
What is the olive green 8 pin connector?
That's a VTR connector (http://www.labguysworld.com/8Pin_002.jpg), used for professional video cameras. Carries composite video and audio. Boring.
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on September 21, 2011, 09:19:14 am
What about all those other inputs? What about the YM and YS ports?
YM and YS? No idea, maybe some sort of early S-Video on two separate plugs?
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on September 21, 2011, 09:19:14 am
I'm crossing my fingers I'll somehow be able to use this to perhaps get some RGB system to work. Perhaps there's some sort of TTL to SCART adapter? In any case I just want to figure out what I got. Thanks in advance!
What you should do is set the switch to RGB (TEXT), wire up RGB from a game console to the white RCA plugs and feed composite video to the yellow RCA plug marked as SYNC IN. There are simple SCART to Component adapters you can buy (which are just pin adapters) which will do this if you can wire up the composite video lead they don't usually carry, or you can build your own from scratch out of a component cable, a composite AV cable and a female SCART plug.
Good luck! ;)
EDIT: Actually I just had a closer look at the back panel and the supposed VTR connector says RGB(TTL) while the white RCA plugs say RGB(TEXT). No VTR connector then. Go ahead and wire up some RGB to the TEXT inputs!
Wow! That TV is simply awesome. I need to broaden my retro searches for some vintage hi-tech TVs! :)
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6170332320_3b0f605d59_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6170332320/)
Forgot to mention the remote. Yes, you saw right - the remote slides directly INTO the tv and is spring loaded for easy removal. This is such a brilliant design that it's a SHAME that this is the only TV I've ever seen to offer such a handy feature. I dunno about you guys, but I'm always losing the remote and have to dig around for it.
As for picture, well here's some pics I've taken of NES gameplay via composite. The colors seem to be slightly off, but maybe that's because I'm used to seeing NES graphics with HD goggles on. I own a huge library of NES and Famicom games as well as the Powerpak, so I'll take on any requests anyone has for a specific title.
Here's what I've taken thus far.
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6163/6168494768_7cc6296f43_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6168494768/)
Super Mario Bros. 1 - note how blue the sky looks!
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6177/6170335148_605c580088_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6170335148/)
Super Mario Bros. 3 - was the sky always that color?
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6152/6168493412_17a3930e84_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6168493412/)Gradius II - Lookin' good
(http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6163/6170331464_837384a065_b.jpg) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/56076975@N02/6170331464/)Rockman 2 also looks spectacular on this tv!
Simply amazing! You mind me asking what the price was? Had I found ray and brought it home, my wife would kill - just don't have the room in our apartment. Nice find indeed :)
Moved to Other Gaming. This isn't a Famicom. :P
The best thing about the tv? it was free.
Wow, doesn't get any better than that. Must have been a beast to move.
Not so bad. it's 24" and I can move it by myself. It's not something I'd like to be lefting up and down a flight of stairs anytime soon, but it's no 40" flatscreen CRT either.
QuoteWhat about all those other inputs? What about the YM and YS ports?
I believe it has something to do with Luma and Chroma used in S-video connection...
The colors seems to be normal. Indeed between CRT and HD there's always some big changes...
Quote from: satoshi_matrix on September 21, 2011, 07:39:02 pm
The best thing about the tv? it was free.
Can' beat that price! :bub:
I also have a nice Panasonic TV. It's not as retro and cool though.
Off-topic here, but what Rock Man 2 is that?! :o\\\
And since when did Gradius II have "PHOTON" on the HUD? ???
Quote from: Jedi QuestMaster on September 22, 2011, 09:49:01 pm
Off-topic here, but what Rock Man 2 is that?! :o\\\
I was wondering the same thing. That Rockman sprite looks really detailed and more like an SNES sprite than the Rockman 2 sprite.
Yeah that is definitely a pirate/hack of Rockman 2.
both of those are off the Powerpak.
Rockman 2 replaces the Megaman sprite with one that mimics the Megaman X sprite. it makes the game look really cool. The Gradius II screen is from the graphically enhanced hack that a prolific Japanese hacker made. I found both about a year or so ago.
Here's a little video I made of this tv http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ttd8D2wvWTM
This is gorgeous. Is the bezel actual silica glass, or Plexiglas? I have displays that use both, but silica glass is far less common. I agree that the 'vents' look like speaker grilles and that the seem to have a dust-door. This looks to be a studio-display, or studio-quality display, probably for broadcasting purposes. It would have been very expensive new, and is still quite costly today. What a beautiful find...
I love the elegance of the remote control docking area too. Simply lovely.
RGB (Text) and TTL (CGA) were display methods used on early RGB computer systems and some broadcasting systems. TTL was digital, 16/64-colour, and the Text display is, as I recall, analgoue RGB. TTL used fixed colour ranges, whereas analogue RGB allowed any using part of the video spectrum.
The TEXT mode however, may also be a different form of digital RGB that used tri-colour or special monochrome modes for sharper on-screen textual displays. This is also not uncommon for monitors at the time. That odd port could probably be adapted to a range of systems, including early PC and Commodore systems that support TTL output, such as the Commodore 128 and IBM 8088 PC, or some Apple II and Apple II systems (with digital RGB cards).
I think the other connections are YM and VS, which are for Y-signal (halftone, luminance--and I think the video signal mask as well, but maybe not) and Vertical S-Curve (gamma correction). That 8-pin connector is for TTL-in: Most systems had a DE-9 TTL video port, so I presume this display had a range of adaptable cables--again possible for special broadcasting usage--though normally TTL is a 9-pin or greater connection. This is the fairly standard DE-9 CGA-16 TTL port pinout:
Pin 1 - GND / CE
Pin 2 - GND / CE
Pin 3 - Red
Pin 4 - Green
Pin 5 - Blue
Pin 6 - Green Intensity | or | General Intensity
Pin 7 - Blue Intensity | or | Luma / Monochrome
Pin 8 - Horizontal Sync
Pin 9 - Vertical Sync
I will presume that this 8-pin port forgoes the second CE/GND pin and ties them together. You can probably contact Panasonic directly to request a manual for the operation of this display, which may have the pinouts in it, or possibly even a repair manual which will give you detailed technical specifications.
Here is another pinout used (rarely) that would connect via an 8-pin DIN to the system:
1. Special TEXT signal
2. Red video signal
3. Green video signal
4. Blue video signal
5. Intensity signal
6. Signal ground
7. Horizontal or Composite sync.
8. Vertical sync.
This may be in use here as well.it.s hard to say without either a manual or physical examination; I'm not really familiar with this quasi-SCART-ish 8-pin RGB connector.
You can also order a reproduction service manual for this display from thus website (http://www.analogalley.com/m_panaso.htm) in printed or PDF format.
I hope this is all helpful. Overalll, a brilliant find. :bomb:
new video showcasing more of this awesome tv.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctnFFU9FXJ8
That video is great! I'm so jealous of you having that tv. :D I wished you would have shown some modern systems on it though, I'm intrigued as to how they'd look.
What would you like to see? Any games in particular? i can easily do a follwo up video.
Oh idk...some fps maybe? I actually really like how modern games look on crts.
That tube is baller.
Xious your info is helpful, but TTL is a digital format of RGB, which makes it usless for my needs.
I need to get RGB (TEXT) working so I can use analog RGB systems like my PC10 RGB ppu'd AV Famicom, SNES,and possibly Genesis.
I have European SCART cables for the SNES and am hoping I can adapt that or something else to work on this beautiful old tv.
I've been told "The YM input switches RGB to half-brightness, for video overlay use. The YS input is used to activate the RGB input. You just use 75 ohm terminators to activate the necessary modes."
I tried this using a RCA composite male plug that I cut and split and soldered a 47ohm resistor to (ghetto terminator) and although not quite 75ohms as asked for, it still didn't do anything. I should have noticed something I would think.
I know neither are RGB, but I've also tried hooking up component video and composite video to each of the RGB channels while supplying composite video (or component Y) to the sync input, but the TV seems to ignore the RGB inputs altogether. It instead syncs to and displays the composite video in full color and the component Y luma signal in grayscale, but nothing happens through the RGB channels.
I think I should try with a clean composite sync signal devoid of video information in case the TV senses the video and disables the RGB but I don't have any means to get such a signal from my gaming systems.
I know I can build a simple circuit with a LM1881 to strip the sync from the composite video but I <insert favorite reason for not doing it here>
I should add I don't get a rolling picture if I don't connect the sync, just a black screen.
Help?
I purchased the thoroughly useless manual. Maybe you guys will find something useful in it? here. http://www.megaupload.com/?d=IGZAO5UN
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fix the link megaupload is dead
Yeah. Unfortunately, the link died with megaupload. I might still have it somewhere though.
you have a crappy old tv ;D
Seriously though man I have no clue
cool! those screen protectors are common place on high end panasonic models from 1982-1987. Mines a smaller, completly different model and has one too. I had a 2nd as well but the protector was unfortunately snapped off... Anyway, this is definitely an awesome CRT tv score, which is an absolute necessity for the vintage gamer!
Awhile back I picked up an American Bang & Olufsen BeoVision MX5000 or MX5500 CRT that had Scart RGB input. This is generally unheard of on American TVs. I guess the TV must have been both NTSC and PAL to support such a feature? Japanese RGB cables didn't work, so it's definitely a SCART input. I racked up many a' gaming hours playing SNES and Sega Saturn on my new beloved known as RGB! :D
I encourage any US gamers to seek one of these out if you can find one on the cheap. Only downside is that the thing weighs a ton, and the remote control functions are very confusing.
NTSC/PAL doesn't enter the equation when using an RGB SCART connection, as RGB has no colour encoding.
I live in Australia and SCART TV's aren't too common here, but they do exist. I picked up a nice Grundig CRT TV for console gaming and it has an RGB SCART connection, looks awesome!
Here are some shots I took with a crappy digital camera of my Master System running in RGB:
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/fjs/MS-RGB.png)
(http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y189/fjs/MS-RGB-Zoom.png)
Sorry about it being Alex Kidd, that probably won't go down too well on a Nintendo forum lol, but Sega were nice enough to include native RGB output on most of their consoles whereas Nintendo seemed to want us to be content with RF or composite output only. :'(