Sorry in advance. I'm kind of a newbie and amateur with these. I also speak English and electronic language quite poorly. But I just started to study the anatomy of my Famiclone (Subor D21). I know that these "NOAC:s" are usually very bad. But this one is nearly good cause it supports the Famicom features well. So i would like to try mod this anyway. I just have two problems:
- Proplem one is that this has the AV outputs, but with jailbars... I suspect its partly caused by cheap parts. So can i make or buy better composite amplifier? Seems like there is some different ways to do the mod version. And according to GameTechUS on Youtube, it counts if i use same quality components as the old NES. I could just buy the AV chip from him but he does not do clones... So does this have the pins for original signal?
- Proplem two is that it runs too slow. But seems like this uses external crystal oscillator. So can i "overclock" this to normal speed somehow? I know that the videopicture might go wrong and that it can cause other problems too. But i want to try anyway. According to some old forum post it might work.
Here is some pictures of the console =
Mainboard:
The missing pinmarks between P2D1 and GND are on other side of the wire that goes to controllers. From right to left =
- P2D0, P1D0 and Reset.
The upper wires that go to outputs are also marked on other side. From right to left =
- GND, VO / VCC (video out?), A (audio?), VI / VCC (video in?) and VIDEO
Seems like that KSY thing is crystal oscillator?
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/1365121387.png)
Under the mainboard (Those long wires with hot glue are the "oscillators" legs. It looks like it was made after the board. They have not even used all parts and jumpers that are marked on circuits):
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/5303333_orig.jpg)
And the output / powerboard:
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/1365123211.png)
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/1197972_orig.jpg)
V-IN comes from 7805 output (5V)
between V-in and VCC it has a power switch (of/on)
VCC is a power supply (+5V respestive to GND)
you definitely have pal system and it's known to be slow. So you can try to replace crystal for NTSC counterpart and set some jumpers for NTSC. Shit there are no silk screen marks about it
for the jailbars try to shield the NOAC glob-top chip with some piece of adhesive foil to ground
i have the similar board and it has jumper settings exposed to silk screen. Just wait for the pic a day or two
Thank you very much Famifan! All help, critic and information with this project is appreciated. My main goal is to make it small as possible. So maybe i could fit it in NES cart. I will take away the circuit for controllers and connect them to mainboard. But i was thinking if i can take the outputboard away too? If i take the video and audio from the mainboard and make separated power transformer from the parts.
And yes, i forgot to mention that it is indeed PAL-B. But I'm from PAL region and used to slow. This just sounds extra slow. So what oscillator should i use? 3.579545Mhz? And can i just replace it with the current one, or make switch for it? I could test to overclock it too if i figure out what crystals to use. Is it 4.433619Mhz for overclock? And would tunable capacitor maybe help for that?
I didn't realise that i could make the ground foil for NOAC too :crazy: Is it possible use like slice of aluminiumtape, or would it be better to use peace of real aluminium or copper and hotglue it on the chip?
And sorry 80sFREAK for the hi-res, i assume you mean the pictures. I'm not that used to post on forums. I got this rubbish cheap with some multicarts and NES-adapter... And cause Japan is almost other side of the world, i haven't even seen real Famicom with my own eyes. Or top loader. Of course i would use one if possible. But even this rubbish is currently asked about 150€ in here (boxed with zapper and some games), if i can see one on auction. I was really supriced how good it is for a clone, cause at least it has the AV and external crystal.
i was thinking about doing the same. I'm joining to the project :diskkun:
Post Merge: April 06, 2013, 09:23:47 am
I'm still not sure about anything what i do but I'm going to try something with this info:
Plan A:
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/1793406_orig.jpg)
- Overclock =
=============
Traces for crystal:
NOAC > Crystal > Thing 47/C2 (32,2k or 0,246M?!) > GND
NOAC > Crystal > Thing 22/C3 (38,7k or 0,323M?!) > GND
Maybe i could replace other "Thing" with 9-50pF Variable Capacitor for tuning?
I'm gonna use these crystals and maybe World championsip style switches for them + goldcart :)
- PAL Clock = 26.6017 MHz (original)
- NTSC Clock = 21.47727 MHz
- Optimal Clock = 28.3220 MHz
- Power transformer =
=====================
Will this work?
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/9212460_orig.jpg)
7805:
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +9v to GND = 43,2k or 0,276M?!
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +5v to GND = 5,9k or 0,005M?!
(I try to add led for power too. From +9v)
- Controllers =
===============
Controllers need to be all rewired with more and longer wires. I'm still not sure what connector to use.
I need at least 9 wires for P1, so Playstation style would be option. But DR15 15 Pin Female would fit to style. Also many old joysticks are used by DR15 15 Pin Male (same as famicom exp), so it would help with other controller mods.
2 Player switch can be used to pass the controller. But if you put both on, you can play Contra with two synchronised guys at same time :D
- AV Mod =
==========
80sFREAK style:
Video + GND > PNP Transistor > 100ohm Resistor
+5v > 150ohm Resistor
100ohm + 150ohm Resistors > 6.3v 33uF = Video out
NINTENDO style:
(http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e36/DarthCloud/hvc-101_video.gif)
Video + GND > 2SA937 PNP Transistor
+5V > 300ohm or 330ohm Resistor
PNP Transistor + 300ohm or 330ohm Resistor > 6,3v 220uF or 10v 100uF Capacitor > "ferrite core" > 75ohm, 110ohm or 120ohm Resistor
GND > 560pF Capacitor + 75ohm, 110ohm or 120ohm Resistor = Video out
Both say they are the best way.. This one originally has only 16v 10uF and its too little.
Jailbars mostly seem to be cause of bad power, long leads, bad insulation and external distraction, like RF unit etc. I think I'm gonna do it the Nintendo way cause it has been used to remove the jailbars. Seems like many people also underrate the value of good insulation, ferrite core and ground foil.
I found some "MULTICOMP - MCAB 035090-33 - FERRITE CORE, CYLINDRICAL, 105ohm".
http://uk.farnell.com/jsp/displayProduct.jsp?sku=9265252&CMP=e-8976-00001011
Maybe i could use it in the end with 105ohm resistor? I'm gonna use external ferrite core too, it could reduse the jailbars also.
For audio i will use only mono output. And split the sound with cable.
Here is similar mod that someone else have made: http://www.overclock.net/t/323057/ign-nes-console-on-a-chip-mod-the-console-is-in-the-cartridge
(with jailbars :D) This shows good idea. That extra controller ports are not really even needed if i just use the expansion port.
But i remember that i read some game supports even 5 players. So maybe the controller ports need to be there, just in case..
QuoteNOAC > Crystal > Thing 47/C2 (32,2k or 0,246M?!) > GND
NOAC > Crystal > Thing 22/C3 (38,7k or 0,323M?!) > GND
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +9v to GND = 43,2k or 0,276M?!
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +5v to GND = 5,9k or 0,005M?!
what do these bold texts mean?
Quote from: famifan on April 09, 2013, 03:23:13 am
QuoteNOAC > Crystal > Thing 47/C2 (32,2k or 0,246M?!) > GND
NOAC > Crystal > Thing 22/C3 (38,7k or 0,323M?!) > GND
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +9v to GND = 43,2k or 0,276M?!
Thing 203 + 16V100uF, from +5v to GND = 5,9k or 0,005M?!
what do these bold texts mean?
Measuring resistance ???
C2, C3 and XTAL is common "externals" for build-in oscillators. One of them could be variable for fine adjusting frequency.
Whats gonna happend with syncro, when you will change XTAL ::)
Yes, those texts are the components, connections and resistance measuring. For example "Thing 47" is the component and the number that's on the side of it. And C2 is written under it, on the board. And 32,2k is the resistance.
I really don't know much about electronics. Or component names, functions, or how to draw them properly. But i understand some basics. Sorry. I'm just quessing and assuming most of this based on what other people have written and done. And using it with the little i know.
I'm not even expecting this to work. But i think its better to try than just let it be. And i posted this just to get more information and tips if someone knows better, or has been testing some of this. I don't think i will brake the consol with this. And even if i do it doesn't matter. Just like to experiment with these kind of things. Most worrying thing for me at the moment is the power transformer.
Whole overclock assumption is based on that someone was saying it might be possible if the crystal is external. And even he doubted it right immediately after that, in his next comment. Cause of the issue with cpu and ppu. But i would like to test this. Maybe there is some Subor magic that could make it work at least with NTSC crystal. The variable capacitor idea just came from some Sega NTSC mod.
You can replace XTAL with ceramic variable capacitor, but it's the last thing on the "to do" list.
Measuring resistance will give you no useful information.
6561 chip might have switchable(by grounding some pins) prescaler for CPU/PPU and colour coder(PAL/NTSC), but that's all. Once frequency out of TV's tolerance, you will have no syncro and wrong pitch of sound.
If you want overclock, go for Famicom/NES. You still loose proper pitch except, probably, using extra CPU in test mode(only curtain revision support this, when registers accessible from outside), clocked with regular frequency.
what you called a "thing" is capacitor. No need to measure resistance on it unless you know how do it properly.
just use any equals ceramic caps laying around 12-22p for crystal's low/high pass filters
Thanks! I was looking at the board with some more attention and realiced that all parts are marked clearly :D CN* = Connection, C* = Capacitor, R* = Resistor, J* = Jumper...
This obviously is originally designed to be one board. All missing parts in right top corner seem to be original video output. They go like this:
Video > 6.3v 22uF
GND > 12k Resistor + 6.3v 22uF > -6K8 Resistor + PNP 2SC945-B
GND > 150 Resistor > PNP 2SC945-E = video out
VCC > +6K8 Resistor
VCC > PNP 2SC945-C > 104 Capacitor > GND
Only thing that seems to be different than it supposed to, is the Capacitor 6 middle of the board. Its marked as 47uF but this is only 50v 1uF. It connects to GND and Reset.
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 09, 2013, 07:07:50 am
Only thing that seems to be different than it supposed to, is the Capacitor 6 middle of the board. Its marked as 47uF but this is only 50v 1uF. It connects to GND and Reset.
it should be marked as 0.47uF (or 474). 1uF is okay. The bigger the capacitance the longer reset on power-up occures
Post Merge: April 09, 2013, 08:04:24 am
a doc about C2,C3 values > http://ecee.colorado.edu/~mcclurel/iap155.pdf
Thanks for all the information. This really goes way over my league. I'm more trial and error kind of guy :D
I just assumed that the Subor was so cheap that they used same board and parts for PAL and NTSC. And it reads so on the board too..
For what i have seen, most PAL to NTSC mods recommend the variable capacitor. Seems like usually other PAL consoles are made by using other crystal and adding capacitor or jumper to some point.
So I originally had only two ways for trying NTSC:
1 - Put in the NTSC Clock and try to remove some capacitor or jumper.
2 - PAL NES runs a 26.601712MHz crystal using a 16x divider (1.66MHz CPU speed)
NTSC NES runs a 21.47727MHz crystal using a 12x divider (1.79MHz CPU speed)
Perhaps the 28.64 MHz crystal trick method would work for NTSC.
But i will order and try the 21.47727 MHz crystal. Witch will take some weeks.. And replace the 47p capacitor from C2 to same as C3 (22p).
If i understand Famifan right?
And yes,didn't see that there was hidden 0. before the 47uF. Sorry again ;D Its always good to ask stupid questions before making stupid actions...
QuotePerhaps the 28.64 MHz crystal trick method would work for NTSC.
for CPU, how about PPU?
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 09, 2013, 01:19:37 pm
But i will order and try the 21.47727 MHz crystal. Witch will take some weeks.. And replace the 47p capacitor from C2 to same as C3 (22p).
If i understand Famifan right?
absolutely right!
Found some new, maybe useful information. And i have some final guestions. Apology's for long posts :/ I just want to be thorough with everything.
I stumbled on "Kinamania"s Youtube channel and started to realize the big wonderful world of Famiclones. And cause the Finland is neighbour of Russia, we seem to have lots of these imported clones here. But haven't ever seen Dendy.
It would be helpful if i could understand some Chinese or Russia. And if i could find picture of NTSC Subor motherboard. Best pictures i could find are here: http://dendygames.wordpress.com/category/famiclone/
Many NOACs seem to use the Subor board or very similar. Lifa, Liko etc.
I also found this other Finnish guy who has modded his clone "NTDEC" board. But it has proper chips in it. He also recently made new toploader PAL AV mod.
According to him the regular AV mod wont work on PAL flatscreen TV! The PAL picture is dark and unplayable.
I have just tested this with the original AV and old tube TV. That supports NTSC, RGB etc.. So cant say how this acts yet.
He was testing it and found out that the most important parts was the PNP transistors. Here is the diagram for his PAL AV mod:
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-UkFdZc5Alyk/URuBtmaPB7I/AAAAAAAAAHk/Wq6mMCuUtdg/s1600/Toploader_AV_mod_final.jpg)
So all you need is two 150ohm resistors, original/2SA937 transistor or similar, and magical "GR1815" transistor. He took it from "Playchoice10" motherboard. It acts as amplifier.
The last resistor depends from the flatscreen TV. With other TV it was optimal at 39ohm and other 47ohm. So maybe there could be switch or potentiometer in the output?
The stereo diagram is for internal stereo mod. I'm not sure if i want to do that, yet. There is 3 different points for audio before its starting to mix on the board. But i assume that i had to take the connections from J6, after R4 and pin 46. Maybe this could balance the the possible sound fx issue that i mention later?
And if i understand right, i can take only the extra fx from pin 46? Or do i need to feed power with some resistor to pin 45?
All respect for this information goes to "Mirsku" and his friend "Timux".
Here is the original posts: http://mirsku.blogspot.fi/
On the clone "NTDEC" board he fixed the low cart sound fx issue by adding 100 ohm resistor to before pin 45. That goes to cartridge slot. And adding 10/16V 100uF capacitor before audio output. Capacitor minus towards output. He also mentions that if the original picture is too bright, you can ad 68-100ohm resistor before video output.
On the "NTDEC" board he just replaced jumpers that was next to audio output, with the parts. They are in this picture:
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JXnMHuVd8v4/UJ_mNrYoA9I/AAAAAAAAACs/LgjLyQvdqDg/s1600/sound_and_videomod.jpg)
I don't have any original games (with VRC6 chip. Akumajou Densetsu, Madara, Esper Dream 2 or Lagrange Point with VRC7) to test the sound fx chip support. So if anyone has, please test?
I noticed when i tested to use this with RF, the sound was very bad. But sounded clear trough audio connection.
Here is what i have done so far:
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/8317798_orig.jpg)
I'm pretty sure that i can fit this to fami size catridge, but i think i will use some Steepler style. As a tribute to Dendy stuff :D
Its just difficult to pick the colour. Black is cool, but i think yellow would be nice too. And more "Dendyish" :D Best would be the kind witch has small dustcover too. But never seen those live.
So i turned the cartridge slot to make it better and have some room. I also took a little slice from the top of the board. Now i can trim much away sides of the cartridge too. When i tilted the cartridge slot, i added wire from pin 46 and added jumper for sound to pin 45. The board is now little smaller than the cartridge. And if i make it so the connector is out from the "mouth", there will be even extra space.
But maybe i cut some of the cartridge too. Best would be if i could make it "stiletto" style. So it would act little like dustcover too and could be pushed out to connect...
Maybe i add another ground jumper to the under the board too, later. Just to make the connection stronger to other side of the board.
There is the power transformer above, that i made too, from original parts. I need to test does it work, and how much it heats up if it does. And do i need to ad bigger heatsink.
I decided that controller ports will be Famistyle 15pin. And cheapest pushbuttons and switches to fit the "Dendystyle".
Now i just need to order and wait for the parts. If someone knows good place to order single parts, please recommend? I don't want to order 20 crystals from eBay cause i need one. I couldn't find the Playchoice10 "GR1815" transistor. But someone was complaining at deal extreme that he got them..(200pack..:D):
http://dx.com/p/3-pin-triode-transistor-for-diy-project-black-200-piece-pack-132760 Maybe contacting them would help.
And for the crystal mod. If it works someway, i was planning to make switch for region.
So, if i need two same size capacitors for the crystal, why cant i use the same, or double sized capacitor? Or is it just cause that's the way it sends information?
And does it matter if i use 3 differend capacitors (the originals and the one added), so both crystals are connected to same 22p? Or do i really need 3x 22p and the 47p capacitors?
Thank you again for all quick help and good answers! I will update this soon as i get to testing point. And if anyone has some extra expansion 15pin dustcover (the red one) pm me!
7805 done perfect. It's another thing, where pins/wires have be as short as possible.
No need to split audio in left/right. No need 2SC1815, just pick the signal from from spot,where is 150 Ohm resistor connected to each other and replace 150 Ohm resistor, which connected to 2SA937 transistor with 100 Ohm resistor. Use decoupling capacitor. Smaller, better, start from 22uF and if you have troubles with syncro, replace it with 33uF or 47uF. Oops, it looks like circuit from my thread... ::)
If you want to go as shown on your pic, no need to buy 200 2SC1815, 2SC945 or any other genegal low power silicon NPN transistor will do the job. Look around,you might have some dead TV's, radio, tape recorders, AT/ATX power supplies around - use them as donors, just test desoldered parts before use. It will save your time, while something looks like transistors/whatever willcome from China ;)
About capacitors around XTAL - they actually shift frequency little bit, so your colour subcarrier might be out of TV's tolerance, so you will get b/w picture.
Hint - whatever you doing, do step by step. If something went wrong and you are not sure what/why/... you easily can "undo" and try different way.
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 11, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
It would be helpful if i could understand some Chinese or Russia. And if i could find picture of NTSC Subor motherboard. Best pictures i could find are here: http://dendygames.wordpress.com/category/famiclone/
Many NOACs seem to use the Subor board or very similar. Lifa, Liko etc.
what do you want from the above link?
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 11, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
I also found this other Finnish guy who has modded his clone "NTDEC" board. But it has proper chips in it. He also recently made new toploader PAL AV mod.
According to him the regular AV mod wont work on PAL flatscreen TV! The PAL picture is dark and unplayable.
it's just improper video amplifier. Why don't you use original famiclone circuit for av part?
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 11, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
I couldn't find the Playchoice10 "GR1815" transistor.
use any general purpose low voltage at least 0.25W bipolar transistor with hFE current gain higher then 40. Be sure to choose appropriate type (PNP or NPN). That's all.
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 11, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
So, if i need two same size capacitors for the crystal, why cant i use the same, or double sized capacitor? Or is it just cause that's the way it sends information?
And does it matter if i use 3 differend capacitors (the originals and the one added), so both crystals are connected to same 22p? Or do i really need 3x 22p and the 47p capacitors?
just use any pair of equals capacitors between 12-22p. You'll never notice the differencies.
Thanks again very much to both! All that additional information and alternative components really helps.
That "Mirkku" dude had made the mod by the hard way. Just testing different parts and styles. And hes also not an expert with electronics.
But all that PAL stuff totally made me change my mind on the AV mod. I will do it just like 80sFREAK :P
And i don't have anything special that i wanted Famifan to translate :D Thanks anyway. I can manage with Google translator. With the pages that i find. For example i cant find almost anything from internet with name "Subor". But when i search "СЮБОР", its a whole different thing ;)
Its just quite difficult / funny sometimes trying to read the Google translations. Here was something about the topic:
http://gbx.ru/lofiversion/index.php/t82851.html What i could read, they ended up speaking about melting the microchip cover or something? ;D
But back to the point. I was making my shopping list and turns out that i do need to order some family packs and i will get them 100x cheaper, or same price that single parts from Finland...
I was looking this transistor: 2SA937R C Silicon PNP Power Transistor SIP3. I think its made by ROHM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Nzc5WDcxNw==/$%28KGrHqFHJDEE-pY9qdY-BP1jJgKdKg~~60_1.JPG)
Could it be as good as original or does the "C" mean something? Its 1,50€ + postages 4,20€, but i could pay that easy if its the same transistor.
I also found some supplier who has 20Pcs of the 2SA937R. And they are listed made by Japan. But i couldn't contact the seller and I'm not sure if they are the cheaper style transistors.
If the "C" transistor is good, then will i need to get the ceramic capacitor 0,1uF between GND and +5V?
If its not right one, i suppose i buy 100Pcs "2SC945 C945 50V 0.15A NPN BIPOLAR TRANSISTORS"? 1,40€ with postages :D
I was also planning to use surface mount resistors (150ohm+100ohm 100Pcs) 2x 1,40€
And surface mount 22uF 10v capacitors (10Pcs) 3€
The regular mini 33uF and 47uF 10V capasitors was cheaper (10Pcs) 2,50€ + 1,50€
Im also planning to get Ferrite Bead Core with Lead 3.5x9mm (50Pcs) 2,15€ + postages 4,65€
For controllers i will use 2x DB15 Male + Female Right Angle PC Mount D-Sub Connectors (couldn't find black ones without angle) all 4x 4,40€
I finally decided the colour too. It will be red and black. Got two fami baseball games for the case. 3,50€
Basic black push buttons (4x N/O + 4x N/C) and switches (10x 6Pin ON/OFF/ON). And rgb leds. But those i will use with other projects too.
Other things was 5 sets DB15 Plastic Hood Cover for D-Sub 15 Pin 2 Rows. Grey, so have to paint them. 3€.
And cheapest 21.47727 MHz Quartz Crystal Resonator, oscillators was the dwarf model. 20x pack 4€
Finally for the sound 20Pcs x 220uF 10V capacitors. 1,40€
Found good page for some led mod resistor calculating: http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/ledcalc.php
Need to think some of them too. But i have to think them later when i know what goes where.
This mod will cost more than the console + games :D But if i get it working i guess i can do some AV mods to someone else too or something.
And i also have so much other projects that i think the parts wont go to waste.
Quote from: famifan on April 12, 2013, 02:50:52 am
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 11, 2013, 05:08:15 pm
I also found this other Finnish guy who has modded his clone "NTDEC" board. But it has proper chips in it. He also recently made new toploader PAL AV mod.
According to him the regular AV mod wont work on PAL flatscreen TV! The PAL picture is dark and unplayable.
it's just improper video amplifier. Why don't you use original famiclone circuit for av part?
If you are asking from me that is because simple amplifier with one transistor didn't work on toploader when used with flatscreen tv.s here. I tested it on about five different flatscreen televisions and it always gave me too dark picture so I had to add extra transistor to it.
That "famicom chips in ntdec board" thing started when I bought famicom with dead mainboard. After about fifty wires I still wasn't able to find out which lines in the mainboard were damaged so I took out the chips and xtal and used them to replace the ones that were in my pal ntdec. Currently it is only using the original circuitry for video amp and there are vertical lines, but I'm planning to fix that soon. That little audio fix was necessary because the voice effects in games like Akumajo Densetsu were too loud compared to music that was too silent, so with that they are about as balanced as in original famicom.
btw that "Mirkku dude" gave me a good laugh. ;D
Edited: After reading the whole thread.. I didn't convert ntsc toploader to pal, just simply made it work with pal televisions without too dark picture. It still gives out ntsc signal.
Dark picture=wrong level of signal.
2SA937=2SA1015=2SA733=...
Ha, oops! I'm very sorry about the gender confusion and sloppy shortened translation Mirsku :) Good that you spotted this so fast.
Didn't check your personal information earlyer at all. Seems like you are very rare kind of a lady. Respect. Nice to have you on the topic too! I was going to contact you about this matter later through the "Nesretro.com".. I couldn't find any contact info from the blog. And i thought it would be better to test this first. Now i can understand better the Scootaloo sticker too ;D Hope it doesn't bother that i posted this up here for international conversation :D Let me know if you need some free spare components later...
Thank you 80sFREAK again! All your knowledge is priceless. You should add some reasoning and arguments to the AV mod post for stupid people like me. It sometimes takes very much time for me just to find some simple answers with different languages. Just to do some things that i could otherwise do in minutes.
Like that transistor :) I will get them cheaper 2SA733 ones (50Pcs/1,75€) ) if it really isn't that much of a difference.
I'm almost tempted to do all the different AV mods with different transistors. To do some real objective tests for them with different regions and TVs. Just to get some fair answers and screenshots for all.
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 13, 2013, 06:39:17 am
With the pages that i find. For example i cant find almost anything from internet with name "Subor". But when i search "СЮБОР", its a whole different thing ;)
Its just quite difficult / funny sometimes trying to read the Google translations. Here was something about the topic:
http://gbx.ru/lofiversion/index.php/t82851.html What i could read, they ended up speaking about melting the microchip cover or something? ;D
actually they just assumed that if there is no jumper settings for NTSC on the board the crystal should be hardwired inside to PAL. You should try to find the PCB with jumper settings. Otherwise there is no chance to change the settings.
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 13, 2013, 06:39:17 am
I was looking this transistor: 2SA937R C Silicon PNP Power Transistor SIP3. I think its made by ROHM
(http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/Nzc5WDcxNw==/$%28KGrHqFHJDEE-pY9qdY-BP1jJgKdKg~~60_1.JPG)
Could it be as good as original or does the "C" mean something? Its 1,50€ + postages 4,20€, but i could pay that easy if its the same transistor.
I also found some supplier who has 20Pcs of the 2SA937R. And they are listed made by Japan. But i couldn't contact the seller and I'm not sure if they are the cheaper style transistors.
If the "C" transistor is good, then will i need to get the ceramic capacitor 0,1uF between GND and +5V?
If its not right one, i suppose i buy 100Pcs "2SC945 C945 50V 0.15A NPN BIPOLAR TRANSISTORS"? 1,40€ with postages :D
I was also planning to use surface mount resistors (150ohm+100ohm 100Pcs) 2x 1,40€
And surface mount 22uF 10v capacitors (10Pcs) 3€
The regular mini 33uF and 47uF 10V capasitors was cheaper (10Pcs) 2,50€ + 1,50€
Im also planning to get Ferrite Bead Core with Lead 3.5x9mm (50Pcs) 2,15€ + postages 4,65€
For controllers i will use 2x DB15 Male + Female Right Angle PC Mount D-Sub Connectors (couldn't find black ones without angle) all 4x 4,40€
I finally decided the colour too. It will be red and black. Got two fami baseball games for the case. 3,50€
Basic black push buttons (4x N/O + 4x N/C) and switches (10x 6Pin ON/OFF/ON). And rgb leds. But those i will use with other projects too.
Other things was 5 sets DB15 Plastic Hood Cover for D-Sub 15 Pin 2 Rows. Grey, so have to paint them. 3€.
And cheapest 21.47727 MHz Quartz Crystal Resonator, oscillators was the dwarf model. 20x pack 4€
Finally for the sound 20Pcs x 220uF 10V capacitors. 1,40€
Found good page for some led mod resistor calculating: http://www.hobby-hour.com/electronics/ledcalc.php
Need to think some of them too. But i have to think them later when i know what goes where.
OMG. Don't you have any local electronic parts retail shop?
i can send you some truly vintage КТ316 КТ361 from 80s-90s for free, just pay shipping ^_^
(http://dic.academic.ru/pictures/wiki/files/75/Kt315b.jpg)
them has the same shape as famicom's one, but i'm not sure about the pin-out
I live in small village and here is no any electronics retail shop :/ And even the "best" Finnish online shop has very poor selection of parts.
Price for single transistor there is about 0,70-1,20€. And hate to bring the politics in to discussion, but since our government started to privatise everything. One of the first being post office. After that, all prices have went insane.
Shipping and handling fees are usually about 7-10€. Even just for one part! So I'm not going to get anything from Finland. We also have these things called electrick device recycle centers. Many people here who play more with electronics, say that they are best places to get lots of free parts. But i don't want to carry piles of junk devices to my home, just to get some component.
I think I'm going to get that 2SA937R C because its mentioned in several places that 2SA937R transistor has superb amplifying quality compared to others.
Here is some usefull document about other NOACs on Benheck forums: http://www.box.net/shared/hpl63bh0js (The Definitive NOAC pinout/information document! - By "TheOnlyOneHeFears") It shows again another AV mod, used by NOACs:
(http://hitechretrojunkie.weebly.com/uploads/3/2/4/3/3243718/1318707_orig.jpg)
It also claims that "Generally, the raw video signal in NOACs, is strong enough to be playable. However, if you do want to amplify it, you will need to construct a booster..."
I was tying to find also a picture of NTSC NOAC. And there was this i think Italian guy, who claims that region mod worked just by changing the crystal: http://www.elotrolado.net/hilo_convertir-noac-pal-a-ntsc_1580626
That topic also shows on page 2, that there is some other NOACs with region jumpers. I found one other mention on some forum that the older NOACs might be able to support both regions. Without jumpers.
But i also find from these that Famifan really knows something. There was one 21 Mhz that uses 2x 22p capacitors.
On that Italian guys board it only shows the other capacitor but its 30p. And there is one that uses 2x 33p capacitors.
I really don't mind even if the NTSC crystal doesn't work. I just rather test it than speculate how it might work and leave it bothering me :)
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 15, 2013, 08:17:44 am
I think I'm going to get that 2SA937R C because its mentioned in several places that 2SA937R transistor has superb amplifying quality compared to others.
well, the amplifier in video curcuit is just the voltage follower with level shifter. No need for super amplifying thing. Just be sure that the its unity gain bandwidth is 10-20x more than actual signal's spectrum width
Quote from: Kangsteri on April 15, 2013, 08:17:44 am
But i also find from these that Famifan really knows something. There was one 21 Mhz that uses 2x 22p capacitors.
On that Italian guys board it only shows the other capacitor but its 30p. And there is one that uses 2x 33p capacitors.
I really don't mind even if the NTSC crystal doesn't work. I just rather test it than speculate how it might work and leave it bothering me :)
usually used 12-22p capacitors (as typical manufacturer rated values). The bigger frequency usually requires the bigger capacitor. However it will work with 33p or 40p capacitors as well. It depends on the actual PCB layout, capacitance of IC's pins and built-in oscillator circuit and the crystal resonator itself.
sorry for butting in like this,
but i'm toying around with some Subor D29's right now,
and i'm curious about how that glob-top NOAC shielding works.
if i put adhesive foil over the NOAC chip, it shouldn't touch any of the solder points around it right?
so a small patch would do?
and how do i connect it to ground, can i just run a wire from the foil to one of the rca-grounds?
i'm a total noob at this, so any help will be much appreciated,
please pm me if you have pics or other hints on this.