Famicom World

Family Computer => Famicom / Disk System => Topic started by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 12:14:51 am

Title: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 12:14:51 am
I watch a Video on YouTube about making Repros, I know there's couple people here that does it, I want to know some stuff like

What PC do you use to hook the Programmer up to?
Like how do you get the CHR info far XX Games Example: Mr Gimmick
How much does the Progammer cost?
How many Chips on the PCB do you need to desolder? 
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on March 29, 2015, 12:41:49 am
Quote from: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 12:14:51 am
I watch a Video on YouTube about making Repros, I know there's couple people here that does it, I want to know some stuff like

What PC do you use to hook the Programmer up to?
Like how do you get the CHR info far XX Games Example: Mr Gimmick
How much does the Progammer cost?
How many Chips on the PCB do you need to desolder?  


All current programmers use USB on Windows machines, typically XP and up 32 bit and 64 bit.

Famirom (http://1drv.ms/1DwjYnW) will remove the header and split the files for you, as well as tell you what type of board you need to use.

I highly recommend a solid programmer like the TopMax2 ($800), or the SuperPro 610p (china version is around $325 shipped). If you can't afford those, the GQ-4X is about $100 and very versatile as far as budget USB programmers, it will program EPROMs used Famicom/NES reproductions out of the box.

Some games you only need to remove the PRG, the majority of them 2, the CHR and PRG. I recommend buying a decent desoldering gun like this http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi474a.html
or if you have the money a Hakko FR-300. Many of the chips are soldered on both sides and will take forever to remove with a cheap desoldering pump, or desoldering braid.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: jpx72 on March 29, 2015, 03:23:14 am
I think the topic is already past all the secrecy and mysticism today, so let me just copy-paste one PM I once sent to a repro enthusiast.
Mods, please feel free to delete this post if you find it too "opensource":

Well the first steps must take you to bootgod's webpage, with all info you need about any cart in existence:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/
If you have some weird game rom, you need to find out it's requirements, I use Nestopia emulator and it's info page about game you're playing. Usually, what works in Nestopia, works in real hardware too. There are emulators like cah4e3's one, but there's no point in trying to make a real hardware cart with rom that doesn't work in Nestopia but does in that Fceumm from cah4e3.
http://nestopia.sourceforge.net/
http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/fceultra.php
Next I usually use a "rom to prg/chr" splitter to see what chips do I need. Most reliable is Ucon64, it doesn't have any GUI so you need to run it from old trusty command line like this:
ucon64.exe romname.nes --s       (yes, two slashes --)
http://ucon64.sourceforge.net/   (donwload either C++ or minGW version)
it will create three (or two if the game doesn't have chr) files - romname.prg, romname.chr and romname.prm. You can delete the PRM file, and directly burn prg and chr (or just prg).
What rom burner considers, I was very lucky to get my hands on a professional burner from ELNEC. But it's normally very expensive, so talk to some Polish members here to get info on the best WILLEM programmer. They're the cheapest.
Or I can burn you anything (that has 32 pins maximum), if you pay shipping.
The hardest part is desoldering original roms, but if you have a hot air gun with thin nozzle, it's very very easy, I also can help you with this if needed.
Next step is to understand the difference between different pinouts of original rom chips and normal eproms.
This two files make your life easier:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt
Also, not all games have this weird "NES" pinout, for example konami or jaleco companies use rom chips with normal eprom pinout (it's called "jedec pinout").
I usually don't trust this types of "manuals" for rewiring chips:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt
So after desoldering, I scan the board and trace the pins myself to find the best and easiest way to rewire the cart. I do cut lines on board, not many people like this, they usually "lift" pins on eprom.
I do it like this, I know it's tedious work, but my succes rate is 100%:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QB-zMDNGqaw/TXlB1KAShII/AAAAAAAAD6I/Gzce4pj7rBk/w626-h599-no/tt.bmp
Most usefull site is nesdev wiki with all the needed pinouts of mapper chips and so on, for example MMC3:
http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/MMC3_pinout

First buy a donor, but be aware that many games come in "globtops" (the ugly black bird-shit like drop on the PCB instead of classic chips), so check the versions (small yellow numbers from 1 to X on bootgods page) if there are globtop versions of the cart, and if so, be prepared to buy more than one donor.

Check the mapper, check the size of the game on the donor - buy donors with the same size like your dream rom! If you buy a donor that is for example 256kb game, and your rom has 512kb, you will probably need to do more rewiring. The adress lines (A1-AXX on the eprom pinout) are fewer when the size of the chip is smaller. On smaller games, the high adress lines aren't even connected so you would have to wire them by yourself.

Enough?  :)
All question please post on this topic, no PMs.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: number47 on March 29, 2015, 05:40:29 am
Jep. Thats right from my inbox :D

If you feel lucky and like to gamble then you can also order chinese LPT port Willem from Aliexpress for $30. Like I said it's a gamble, because some of them tend to corrupt EEPROM and their supported EEPROM list is short. Plus you'll need a PC with LPT port and 32bit Windows.

Chinese willem (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Willem-Universal-EPROM-pic-flash-mpu-Programmer-27C256-27C512-03/457137628.html)

A fairly good choice is GQ-4X.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: jpx72 on March 29, 2015, 06:51:06 am
Very cheap way to programm an Eprom is to use some old motherboard that has bios on an eprom like 27c020 or 27c040.
You only need the Uniflash http://www.rainbow-software.org/uniflash/ that can "flash" anything (not just bios) to the chip.
It's a bit tricky, cause you need to remove and reinsert the chips under full PC power, but you can do some adapter and cut off +5V from the chip with a simple switch just before removing/reinserting.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: P on March 29, 2015, 07:24:41 am
Wouldn't it be easier to use EEPROMs than EPROMs nowdays? You can erase them without the need of a UV eraser in case they get corrupted or you want to upgrade/change the ROM. Not that I have used it myself though.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on March 29, 2015, 08:03:56 am
Quote from: P on March 29, 2015, 07:24:41 am
Wouldn't it be easier to use EEPROMs than EPROMs nowdays? You can erase them without the need of a UV eraser in case they get corrupted or you want to upgrade/change the ROM. Not that I have used it myself though.


For 99% of the Famicom/NES repros EEPROM's would be a much better and slightly more expensive solution. There is no dip EEPROM replacement for a 27C801 though.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: jpx72 on March 29, 2015, 09:21:21 am
Also worth mentioning: to save donors, it is possible to use bigger eproms to have two (or more) games on one cart. Just install a small switch for connecting the highest adress pin to either GND or +5V to split the eprom in half. Or there are even more sophisticated solutions, like using the Reset switch for selecting the game.

Fun way to have multiple games on one cart is using ready made compilers like the Forbidden four: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Forbidden_Four
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 01:08:47 pm
I'm really cheap, What kinds of PC can I find to write to the EPROM's?

I know alot of NES Games are not cheap, For my own use is it still a no no to burn Expensive Games like DuckTales 2?

Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on March 29, 2015, 01:37:40 pm
No one really cares if you make a Super Mario Bros or a Duck Tales 2. The problem arises when people try to sell them as originals.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 01:50:59 pm
Yeah I know, Thanks for the info guys

Like I said I'm real cheap does any old PC's have EPROM slot to write games to?
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: jpx72 on March 29, 2015, 01:52:03 pm
Its not a question of exact motherboard type, but your luck to find such among one of those old mobos in your attic. At least I have maybe 10 old mobos from 386 to some AMD duron cpu type.. and only one or two have this type bios.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 02:10:30 pm
Another thing, Does it matter what PCB Class you have like

NES-UN-ROM-07 from a game I get cheap

DuckTales 2 have NES-UNROM-10 will it matter with the number at the end?
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on March 29, 2015, 02:12:41 pm
Look them up on bootgod and you'll be able go tell if the donor will work for which ever game you are trying to make.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 03:23:29 pm
I have bootgod bookedmarked

I don't have anything yet, I'm cheap..So I have to get lucky
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: number47 on March 31, 2015, 02:38:49 am
The number UNROM-## doesn't matter. You have to look for a matching iNES mapper, PCB class, SRAM size, mirroring and PRG size.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: Raverrevolution on March 31, 2015, 08:15:00 am
Seriously, thank you guys for all the info in this thread!!  I've been meddling in this myself.  Mostly I'm interested in translating some games. 

I just did FFII this past weekend and to my amazement it worked well.  Quick question, should I be soldering the two open pins together?  That's the 5V to pin 1.  I'm finding that I should and I will tonight, but I was just curious what you guys think.

Also one more question.  I see lots of talk about buying your own EEPROM writer, but you could order a chip off of Buyicnow.com and use their burn in service for a little extra money.  Has anyone here used this?  Thank you.

Title: Re:Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: jpx72 on March 31, 2015, 10:13:56 am
If you mean the VPP (or any other) pin, you should look in the datasheet of your exact eprom, just google a pdf of it. There is always a table with correct connections, look for row named "read" which means - what should be connected if you want to read the info (rom) from the chip. Usually there is just X which means either +5V or GND. Leaving it unconnected is not ok, so choose which is more comfortable to connect and do it.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on April 03, 2015, 09:41:18 pm
Yeah, Thanks for the info, How I wish I could end up making repros
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on April 03, 2015, 09:46:53 pm
Quote from: Raverrevolution on March 31, 2015, 08:15:00 am
Seriously, thank you guys for all the info in this thread!!  I've been meddling in this myself.  Mostly I'm interested in translating some games. 

I just did FFII this past weekend and to my amazement it worked well.  Quick question, should I be soldering the two open pins together?  That's the 5V to pin 1.  I'm finding that I should and I will tonight, but I was just curious what you guys think.

Also one more question.  I see lots of talk about buying your own EEPROM writer, but you could order a chip off of Buyicnow.com and use their burn in service for a little extra money.  Has anyone here used this?  Thank you.




If you aren't making many, then paying for chips to be programmed is smart. If you plan on making more than a few, just invest in an EPROM programmer like the GQ-4X or even the TOP3000 USB programmer, it can do Genesis games without any adapters as well as any Famicom/NES game.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TOP3000-USB-Universal-Programmer-MCU-PIC-AVR-51-MUK-/181516723750?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a433d6626&rmvSB=true
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: MarioMania on April 04, 2015, 01:02:58 am
That looks cool

Any videos about the link you posted?
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: muckyfingers on April 04, 2015, 01:10:31 am
Quote from: MarioMania on April 04, 2015, 01:02:58 am
That looks cool

Any videos about the link you posted?


No, but it's been around a few years, the TOP3100 is the newer more expensive model, not necessary for Fami and Genny.
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: Jabra on April 18, 2015, 02:40:02 pm
Are the repros and translations licensed ???  Are the repros and the translations considered ''pirates'' ...????
Title: Re: Repro Famicom/NES Games
Post by: number47 on April 19, 2015, 12:03:11 pm
It has been discussed here:
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=11714.msg159277#msg159277


OK. Just finished my first repro. Took one of many Dragon Quest III cartridges I own and gave it a new life as Zelda's US version.

(http://i.imgur.com/AIsVhnu.jpg)