Any middle ground on this to please techies, gamers, collectors all? Let's share our thoughts and opinions. :)
Sure, it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart! I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is. In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it.
I hope other users will be more polite. We did a hard job re-inventing the PCB, working with mapper, creating such beautiful cases and finding scans of whole papers that came with the game. We made only few copies and decided to share such a special game with other Famicom fans and collectors. Please, be respectful to someone else's work. It's our bona fides in the end
WTF "reissue"
Quote from: GKill on February 14, 2018, 02:27:22 pm
Sure, it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart! I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is. In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it.
I hope other users will be more polite. We did a hard job re-inventing the PCB, working with mapper, creating such beautiful cases and finding scans of whole papers that came with the game. We made only few copies and decided to share such a special game with other Famicom fans and collectors. Please, be respectful to someone else's work. It's our bona fides in the end
I'm not talking about cart so much as box and manual...
Food for thought: why should collector (like me) appreciate when people make fake copies of expensive goods, try to make them look similar to originals? At best it kills the market should collector want to resell his or her game (see thread on tiny toons mega drive), at worst it blurs lines so much that people get sold fake boxes and what not inadvertently (like happened to a serious collector here), or even becomes a situation like Super Maruo.
Then this does not even take into consideration any sort of feelings from the original developers...
Whether licensed by Nintendo or not, the game was still original. Licensing doesn't even mean much really, videomation was licensed on nes but unlicensed on Famicom, for instance. If the games original, just because it's unlicensed doesn't make it on to steal.
Maybe I will start being more "polite" and "respectful" of such projects when the other side acts in kind, towards original creators, collectors, etc.
Quote from: aodinets on February 15, 2018, 05:33:12 am
It's awesome! I want one! :bub:
PM email sent!
Quote from: fcgamer on February 16, 2018, 01:33:35 am
Food for thought: why should collector (like me) appreciate when people make fake copies of expensive goods, try to make them look similar to originals?
I respect your opinion, but if you're not interested in obtaining subject item, what are you doing here? If you want to argue about it, please proceed to PM or Famicom board. Peace
As for METAL FORCE game, it seems like old edition is nearly extinct, especially when we're talking about
complete condition. It's so rare, that you even will not find any pictures in Google! We've recreated technically identical to original hardware and made beautiful super-accurate custom boxes/arts. I was hard, I must say. And no one else succeeded with it so far! So, I believe we're doing a noble job, giving second life to such lost treasures like METAL FORCE.
Quote from: GKill on February 16, 2018, 03:19:57 am
I respect your opinion, but if you're not interested in obtaining subject item, what are you doing here? If you want to argue about it, please proceed to PM or Famicom board. Peace
As for METAL FORCE game, it seems like old edition is nearly extinct, especially when we're talking about complete condition. It's so rare, that you even will not find any pictures in Google! We've recreated technically identical to original hardware and made beautiful super-accurate custom boxes/arts. I was hard, I must say. And no one else succeeded with it so far! So, I believe we're doing a noble job, giving second life to such lost treasures like METAL FORCE.
See my friend, your answer is not respecting my opinion, or anyone else's who does not want to see his or her legitimate version of the game devalued, or even questioned as to its authenticity... Out of respect for you, I will start another thread regarding the selling of box / manual repros (fakes) for rare games. If the game were Battle Formula, Recca, Kung-Fu,Gimmick, etc, no one on FW would stand for this crap. So what makes Metal Force any different?
(https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/4975076100_1518789226_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/4975076100_1518789226.jpg)
You talk about the game being so rare, well yes it is rare, but I have had an authentic CIB one sitting on my shelf for several years now. If I wanted, I could print out dozens of inserts and manuals, etc, but I don't. It's not noble, it's shitty, trying to make 1:1 or quite similar of genuinely rare / expensive items, from a collector's perspective.
If you didn't want to piss off people that actually own the real game, why not just make a redesign version, so that your game / box / manual would be easy to distinguish from the original (real) one? If it is truly a matter of sharing a game so that the masses can play it easily, this seems like a perfectly middle solution, which would make both gamers and collectors feel happy...
...otherwise, it opens the doors for a lot of folks to getting scammed, folks who have legit versions to also get jacked, etc. Not very noble, imo.
Post Merge: February 16, 2018, 06:13:10 am
Edit: Also, the way you have worded everything in your posts:
"old edition" (implies that this is a new edition, somewhat implies this is a legit product from the company itself)
"reissue" (again somewhat misleading implies that the company itself did this)
"it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart!" (box and manual are also? Oh, and why use pink for the cart, case design is wrong, but why need to use the same color as originals?)
"I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is." (so what about people buying on second hand market, easy to tell difference?)
" In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it." (but the cartridge is not bootlegged either, it does not infringe on others IP. so why okay to copy and sell? If I copied and sold your android software, you feel is okay?)
In a way I will absolutely agree with fcgamer here. Just say REPRODUCTION for crying out loud. This word is not censored here so you can say it here as much as you want to. As I mod carts myself, I can say it is a very clean work and not absurdly expensive even for 99$ if you sell it CIB, not to mention some games were never released and can only be bought as a repro or some carts are just unobtainable. What everyone complains about here is that you are very misleading and unspecific whether you are selling an "OLD ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC" cart as egay calls it or rather a repro cart. Whether you are serious about describing your products 100% correctly or not, this will reflect on your reputation
I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.
I never knew of this game but I would say the cartridge finish is near perfect! It looks a perfectly fine Famicom cart.
Here is this guy's ebay auctions too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/METAL-FORCE-Famicom-game-Reissue-complete-Korean-import/323074141974
Nowhere does it say the game is a modern fake created by the seller himself...
While the work on this reproduction is very well done, I would really also say it is a reproduction instead of using work arounds to not describe it as such. Whether it's using a whole new PCB + CPLD and whatnot, it still wasn't made by Daou Infosys at all.
I've done a small calculation with average prices.
Donor SMB2 Cart (since it's purple) = $5.00
XC9572 = $12.00
2 EPROM = $2.00
1 SRAM = $0.60
Compoments = $1.40
PCB Prototyping = $2.00
Manual + Box (no idea, guessing) = $10.00
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
Quote from: xIceMan on February 17, 2018, 12:52:50 pm
While the work on this reproduction is very well done, I would really also say it is a reproduction instead of using work arounds to not describe it as such. Whether it's using a whole new PCB + CPLD and whatnot, it still wasn't made by Daou Infosys at all.
I've done a small calculation with average prices.
Donor SMB2 Cart (since it's purple) = $5.00
XC9572 = $12.00
2 EPROM = $2.00
1 SRAM = $0.60
Compoments = $1.40
PCB Prototyping = $2.00
Manual + Box (no idea, guessing) = $10.00
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
Talk is talk =) Please, make the same metal force at $33, I'll buy 10 :redcart:
Unfortunately, "shady" sellers who try to pass repros for reissues (lol) are only half of the problem. The other half are buyers. See, two copies sold. I really want to blame sellers but seeing how there's a market for modern repros, buyers are just as guilty, if not more (because if nobody gave a poop, sellers wouldn't bother). :(
Making a Metal Force (without box and manual) for $33-ish is absolutely possible. I don't see your problem. I don't mind if the price was $40-$50 but taking 3x as much as the material price is worth, no thanks. It's just my opinion, nothing else. I'm free to state my opinion. :)
Good luck!
Quote from: aitsu124 on February 16, 2018, 12:06:51 pm
I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.
Using word "reissue" instead of "reproduction" I try to highlight that this product is well-crafted and complete with all papers. It's not like repros other enthusiasts make: loose carts in used shells with stickers made of simple self-adhesive paper, cutted out with scissors, you know...
When I say "we created the cartridge", it's obvious that it can't be official realese of Open corp., doesn't it? Also, I can assure that if you compare our cart with original one side by side, you will see a lot differences. We just tried to make it natural and similar to common Korean or Taiwanese cartridges :)
Quote from: xIceMan on February 17, 2018, 12:52:50 pm
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
thank you!
I just can't figure out why are you care about the price so much... No one forcing you to buy it, huh. What I can say, is that $33 roughly the cost of housing only: papers, stickers, outer boxes, PCB shells... and not, it's not Mario donor ;D take a closer look! The carts are painted with metallic rose professional (super durable) glossy paint. You will not find anything like this anywhere else. We're really proud of it.
Quote from: xIceMan on February 18, 2018, 02:02:11 am
Making a Metal Force (without box and manual) for $33-ish is absolutely possible. I don't see your problem. I don't mind if the price was $40-$50 but taking 3x as much as the material price is worth, no thanks. It's just my opinion, nothing else. I'm free to state my opinion. :)
Good luck!
Before, you wrote $ 33 for everything, now $ 33 without boxing and manual.
And already $ 50 for everything.
Well, do it for $50 - I'll buy a pair. In other case, your opinion just a bullshit, nothing else. It's just my opinion, nothing personal. And good luck!
Quote from: GKill on February 18, 2018, 03:52:24 pm
Quote from: aitsu124 on February 16, 2018, 12:06:51 pm
I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.
Using word "reissue" instead of "reproduction" I try to highlight that this product is well-crafted and complete with all papers. It's not like repros other enthusiasts make: loose carts in used shells with stickers made of simple self-adhesive paper, cutted out with scissors, you know...
When I say "we created the cartridge", it's obvious that it can't be official realese of Open corp., doesn't it? Also, I can assure that if you compare our cart with original one side by side, you will see a lot differences. We just tried to make it natural and similar to common Korean or Taiwanese cartridges :)
Quote from: xIceMan on February 17, 2018, 12:52:50 pm
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
thank you!
I just can't figure out why are you care about the price so much... No one forcing you to buy it, huh. What I can say, is that $33 roughly the cost of housing only: papers, stickers, outer boxes, PCB shells... and not, it's not Mario donor ;D take a closer look! The carts are painted with metallic rose professional (super durable) glossy paint. You will not find anything like this anywhere else. We're really proud of it.
If you notice, during most of the conversation, the talk is about the paperwork, rather than the cart itself. But this is also the point that you keep failing to address, in any way, shape, or form.
Even though it can still be a bit of a trouble at times, especially on the internet when relying solely on pictures and the words of the seller, it is much easier to determine if the game is a legit item or not, just open up the cartridge and examine the PCB inside.
With paperwork though, it's much harder, whether it be manuals or boxes or whatever. Especially from a picture, and without having others of the same item in your hand with which to compare. That's where much of the flack in this thread is coming from, at least by my point.
I am not some greedy bastard that doesn't want others to play the game, and feels that I am the only one entitled to enjoy it; on the other hand, I am also a collector, and your product is crossing the line of hobbyist project to share with other gamers to enjoy and that of a project that takes the piss on real versions of the game, which collectors own. If it were Super Mario Bros. or something cheap, it would be one thing, but when we are talking about such an expensive / valuable game, such antics are definitely going to make you a few enemies in collecting circles.
As I mentioned in another post, maybe you could do some things to make the item you have here unique, maybe change some colors or some text or some design, to reach some sort of middle ground.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/318/507/080.jpg)
xlceMan, $33 is a cost of raw materials, and you forgot cost of prototyping.
aodinets, finally it's happened :)
fcgamer, i thought you are busy LOL
GKill, GO, GO, GO!!!
Prototyping was already considered.
Anyway, I'm tired of this kindergarten in this topic.
Peace out.
Butthurt? Collectors just don't like 1:1 fakes on high-end items.
I'm with fcgamer pretty much and surprised anyone that's been on these forums for years now would think this is OK for the collector's market. Make the item actually say on it it's a reproduction, it's that simple. Else you risk stuff like this getting out of people's collections somewhere down the line and no one knows how to tell it apart from the real thing until perhaps they get it and choose to open it up to look at the PCB.
The attempt at trying to sugar coat it with the word "reissue" is enough for me to dismiss this. Is "we" more than one person btw, or just a front? Maybe look at what Rose Colored Gaming does as reference for how to make repros that clearly are not the original.
Are there any clear guidelines how to make reproductions or custom cartridges? Really, what I can't figure out is why a couple of people decided that they can judge how that kind of stuff should look like and how to name it. Where is the border? Maybe I should put a big yellow stripe with black letters throughout the box saying: attention, repro! That's ridiculous
From my side, I am pretty sure that it is enough to state that this is not original old release. And the cartridge itself is not trying to mimic the original one, it's just looks similar. Even better in some aspects! There's absolutely no point to make a cartridge that looks completely different from original. That's silly
Quote from: GKill on February 19, 2018, 03:22:47 am
Are there any clear guidelines how to make reproductions or custom cartridges? Really, what I can't figure out is why a couple of people decided that they can judge how that kind of stuff should look like and how to name it. Where is the border? Maybe I should put a big yellow stripe with black letters throughout the box saying: attention, repro! That's ridiculous
From my side, I am pretty sure that it is enough to state that this is not original old release. And the cartridge itself is not trying to mimic the original one, it's just looks similar. Even better in some aspects! There's absolutely no point to make a cartridge that looks completely different from original. That's silly
When people collect originals, if people start making fake copies, especially of high end expensive rare items, those collectors are going to be upset. Its the same as making 1:1 retros of Nintendo world championship cartridges, Stadium events, etc.
I mean, you even make the game shell a similar color, and what about the manual and box? Are they really any easy way to distinguish from originals?
I think that's all some of us here are asking for, just some easy way to differentiate real from fake, and I'm not sure what the big deal with asking for this is...it doesn't even need to be the word repro in yellow, why not just stamp Your Own company's mark in Russian in the corner or something? Everyone is happy, still looks great, maybe even better
Quote from: GKill on February 18, 2018, 03:52:24 pmUsing word "reissue" instead of "reproduction" I try to highlight that this product is well-crafted and complete with all papers. It's not like repros other enthusiasts make: loose carts in used shells with stickers made of simple self-adhesive paper, cutted out with scissors, you know...
Using "reissue" there is absolutely misleading. If you want to highlight that stuff, here's a better text to use:
"This product is well-crafted and complete with all papers."
Quote from: GKill on February 19, 2018, 03:22:47 amFrom my side, I am pretty sure that it is enough to state that this is not original old release.
Where is that stated? Not in your original post and not in your eBay auction description that I can see.
Quote from: GKillThere's absolutely no point to make a cartridge that looks completely different from original.
Of course there is, fcgamer has already explained this. If you're a collector, you probably want the original and you wouldn't be interested in this. If you're a gamer but still want something nice to look at on the shelf, then a repro with a different colored cart and/or a label with your logo somewhere in the corner is not a deal-breaker.
Quote from: Ghegs on February 19, 2018, 06:36:11 am
Where is that stated? Not in your original post and not in your eBay auction description that I can see.
Of course there is, fcgamer has already explained this. If you're a collector, you probably want the original and you wouldn't be interested in this. If you're a gamer but still want something nice to look at on the shelf, then a repro with a different colored cart and/or a label with your logo somewhere in the corner is not a deal-breaker.
oh, man, seriously? Can you read? In my original post: we - redone - cart - accurate - quality. See it? Still think this is description for original cart? Sure not! To be honest I don’t want to use word “repro” because in my mind it associates with cheap and poor stuff.
I can understand now why some users forcing me to make the cart look different and call it repro: just to make sure their original precious one will be obviously better :) It’s so selfish. You fear that no one will dream about your version and not be jealous to it :)
Hey, we can make a better copy, it’s 2018, we have technologies etc. The only question is time&price. There are 3 people involved in the project. That’s why I usually say “we”.
Small offtopic. Does someone remember sveral years ago appeared perfectly made editions of Zelda 2, Metroid etc. in complete conditions for Famicom? The price was $400 per cart. And there were buyers. I think it was a great idea and great implementation despite the price tag. I feel here we have similar case
Quote from: GKill on February 19, 2018, 09:40:38 am
Small offtopic. Does someone remember sveral years ago appeared perfectly made editions of Zelda 2, Metroid etc. in complete conditions for Famicom? The price was $400 per cart. And there were buyers. I think it was a great idea and great implementation despite the price tag. I feel here we have similar case
This is totally different topic. These games were never officially released on Famicom cart format, and the ports that did exist had been lacking in some areas. So no confusion for collectors, totally different things, like mangoes to jujubes.
I hope you can make better analogies in the future ;D
Quote from: GKill on February 19, 2018, 09:40:38 amoh, man, seriously? Can you read? In my original post: we - redone - cart - accurate - quality. See it? Still think this is description for original cart? Sure not! To be honest I don't want to use word "repro" because in my mind it associates with cheap and poor stuff.
Can you post your intent in a clear fashion? First your say it's a reissue, then in the next sentence you say "Everything was redone very accurate and with perfect quality!". That is just playing to the sales pitch that this is an official reissue of the game.
QuoteI can understand now why some users forcing me to make the cart look different and call it repro: just to make sure their original precious one will be obviously better :) It's so selfish. You fear that no one will dream about your version and not be jealous to it :)
I don't have a Metal Force. Make all the repros you want. Hell, I might've even bought one (though not at $90). But your unwillingness to even consider a small, yet clear mark, that this is a reproduction, combined with your choice of words in the advertising, heavily suggests that you're hoping prospective buyers will think it's an official release. That's selfish and deceitful. Your eBay auction was also advertising these are Korean imports. Do these particular repro carts originate from Korea? Here I thought you were located in Russia.
QuoteDoes someone remember sveral years ago appeared perfectly made editions of Zelda 2, Metroid etc. in complete conditions for Famicom? The price was $400 per cart. And there were buyers. I think it was a great idea and great implementation despite the price tag. I feel here we have similar case
You mean games that were originally released on a disk for Famicom? And the repros are carts? Yeah, that's a very different case. Anybody can do five minutes of research and find the games were never officially released on cart. I have a NES repro of Miracle of Almana, complete with packaging, manual 'n all. Never once did I see it advertised as a reissue.
Quote from: GKill on February 19, 2018, 09:40:38 am
Small offtopic. Does someone remember sveral years ago appeared perfectly made editions of Zelda 2, Metroid etc. in complete conditions for Famicom?
Now this sounds interesting. How did the conversions compare to the FDS originals?
Also, GKill, I'm with everyone else on this, and I don't have the original. So it's not a matter of pride. I get why the word repro could be associated as something cheap, but just spelling it out as reproduction would help greatly with that. You could've easily done that.
The only thing I'll say is that I don't think you should have to change the label on the cart. Make the cart itself a completely different color, and there won't be any need to and buyers can still display the original label.
Yay for mods hi-jacking this thread with banter from a different thread...
Then again, it's nice to see how silent mods have been on the idea of making 1:1 copies of high-end games, I guess we can draw our own conclusions on what that means? Maybe even some of the mods placed orders by now.
With that said, mods, please do not hi-jack the thread I made here to use as a dumping ground for discussion from a previous thread....
In an earlier message, MaarioS said the following:
"In a way I will absolutely agree with fcgamer here. Just say REPRODUCTION for crying out loud. This word is not censored here so you can say it here as much as you want to. As I mod carts myself, I can say it is a very clean work and not absurdly expensive even for 99$ if you sell it CIB, not to mention some games were never released and can only be bought as a repro or some carts are just unobtainable. What everyone complains about here is that you are very misleading and unspecific whether you are selling an "OLD ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC" cart as egay calls it or rather a repro cart. Whether you are serious about describing your products 100% correctly or not, this will reflect on your reputation"
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:12:50 am
aitsu124 then said: I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:13:11 am
aarkay14 said: I never knew of this game but I would say the cartridge finish is near perfect! It looks a perfectly fine Famicom cart.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:13:31 am
fcgamer said: Here is this guy's ebay auctions too:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/METAL-FORCE-Famicom-game-Reissue-complete-Korean-import/323074141974
Nowhere does it say the game is a modern fake created by the seller himself...
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:13:49 am
xiceman said: While the work on this reproduction is very well done, I would really also say it is a reproduction instead of using work arounds to not describe it as such. Whether it's using a whole new PCB + CPLD and whatnot, it still wasn't made by Daou Infosys at all.
I've done a small calculation with average prices.
Code:
Donor SMB2 Cart (since it's purple) = $5.00
XC9572 = $12.00
2 EPROM = $2.00
1 SRAM = $0.60
Compoments = $1.40
PCB Prototyping = $2.00
Manual + Box (no idea, guessing) = $10.00
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:14:08 am
aodients said: Talk is talk =) Please, make the same metal force at $33, I'll buy 10 Red FC Cart
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:14:30 am
flying phoenix said: Unfortunately, "shady" sellers who try to pass repros for reissues (lol) are only half of the problem. The other half are buyers. See, two copies sold. I really want to blame sellers but seeing how there's a market for modern repros, buyers are just as guilty, if not more (because if nobody gave a poop, sellers wouldn't bother). Sad
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:15:03 am
xiceman said: Making a Metal Force (without box and manual) for $33-ish is absolutely possible. I don't see your problem. I don't mind if the price was $40-$50 but taking 3x as much as the material price is worth, no thanks. It's just my opinion, nothing else. I'm free to state my opinion. Smiley
Good luck!
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:15:27 am
gkill tries to justify: Quote from: aitsu124 on February 16, 2018, 06:06:51 PM
I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.
Using word "reissue" instead of "reproduction" I try to highlight that this product is well-crafted and complete with all papers. It's not like repros other enthusiasts make: loose carts in used shells with stickers made of simple self-adhesive paper, cutted out with scissors, you know...
When I say "we created the cartridge", it's obvious that it can't be official realese of Open corp., doesn't it? Also, I can assure that if you compare our cart with original one side by side, you will see a lot differences. We just tried to make it natural and similar to common Korean or Taiwanese cartridges Smiley
Quote from: xIceMan on February 17, 2018, 06:52:50 PM
This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!
thank you!
I just can't figure out why are you care about the price so much... No one forcing you to buy it, huh. What I can say, is that $33 roughly the cost of housing only: papers, stickers, outer boxes, PCB shells... and not, it's not Mario donor Grin take a closer look! The carts are painted with metallic rose professional (super durable) glossy paint. You will not find anything like this anywhere else. We're really proud of it.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:18:47 am
fcgamer then says: If you notice, during most of the conversation, the talk is about the paperwork, rather than the cart itself. But this is also the point that you keep failing to address, in any way, shape, or form.
Even though it can still be a bit of a trouble at times, especially on the internet when relying solely on pictures and the words of the seller, it is much easier to determine if the game is a legit item or not, just open up the cartridge and examine the PCB inside.
With paperwork though, it's much harder, whether it be manuals or boxes or whatever. Especially from a picture, and without having others of the same item in your hand with which to compare. That's where much of the flack in this thread is coming from, at least by my point.
I am not some greedy bastard that doesn't want others to play the game, and feels that I am the only one entitled to enjoy it; on the other hand, I am also a collector, and your product is crossing the line of hobbyist project to share with other gamers to enjoy and that of a project that takes the piss on real versions of the game, which collectors own. If it were Super Mario Bros. or something cheap, it would be one thing, but when we are talking about such an expensive / valuable game, such antics are definitely going to make you a few enemies in collecting circles.
As I mentioned in another post, maybe you could do some things to make the item you have here unique, maybe change some colors or some text or some design, to reach some sort of middle ground.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:20:25 am
fcgamer then says: If you notice, during most of the conversation, the talk is about the paperwork, rather than the cart itself. But this is also the point that you keep failing to address, in any way, shape, or form.
Even though it can still be a bit of a trouble at times, especially on the internet when relying solely on pictures and the words of the seller, it is much easier to determine if the game is a legit item or not, just open up the cartridge and examine the PCB inside.
With paperwork though, it's much harder, whether it be manuals or boxes or whatever. Especially from a picture, and without having others of the same item in your hand with which to compare. That's where much of the flack in this thread is coming from, at least by my point.
I am not some greedy bastard that doesn't want others to play the game, and feels that I am the only one entitled to enjoy it; on the other hand, I am also a collector, and your product is crossing the line of hobbyist project to share with other gamers to enjoy and that of a project that takes the piss on real versions of the game, which collectors own. If it were Super Mario Bros. or something cheap, it would be one thing, but when we are talking about such an expensive / valuable game, such antics are definitely going to make you a few enemies in collecting circles.
As I mentioned in another post, maybe you could do some things to make the item you have here unique, maybe change some colors or some text or some design, to reach some sort of middle ground.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:20:55 am
80sfreaksays: xlceMan, $33 is a cost of raw materials, and you forgot cost of prototyping.
aodinets, finally it's happened Smiley
fcgamer, i thought you are busy LOL
GKill, GO, GO, GO!!!
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:21:13 am
xiceman says: Prototyping was already considered.
Anyway, I'm tired of this kindergarten in this topic.
Peace out.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:21:45 am
fcgamer says: Butthurt? Collectors just don't like 1:1 fakes on high-end items.
Why was the thread's title changed? Why is the name of the topic of the first post different from the name of the topic on the rest of the posts?
I believe the topic was split apart because it went completely off-topic and as a few people said "I sense butthurt"
I love how the topic still continues with even more pain than before. Calm down, you will simply not delete the internet. All box arts, label projects and all video gaming artworks are available all over the internet and anyone in the world can print their own box, cart or anything similar right in the print shop next door. This has been happening for many years and is not about to be changed, so any potential buyers should make sure what they are getting before they buy anything. It's almost like complaining someone bought a burned Windows 10 disk signed with a permanent marker on the flea market, you must be aware of dangers and what you are getting and this is the way it works all over the world
I will not bother explaining again whether the OP of the certain topic cares about describing the product any more obvious way, although it was made openly clear that the cart was a repro anyway which was the main issue there. Case closed
GIve me 2 days and I'll do it on discrete chips for 25$ ;-DDDDDDDDDDDDD
I am probably going to get banned for this but honestly it needs to be said. If you guys care about thiis place at all, then you all need to back off on the issue here. It's not even an issue.
Dave, I get it. You don't like people selling 1:1 copies of games. I've bought loads of near 1:1 bootlegs off you in the past. Let's be honest, reproductions and bootlegs are the same thing and intellectual property is being stolen from someone. Who that is that is being stolen from is up to you(not really but you should get the idea) You collected Whirlwind Manu cartridges for a while. I had a bunch as well and except for the mention of their company and the back sticker being a bit different, a lot of them were extremely close to ther originals. These are the sorts of things I would buy from you. Not all it, but a lot. I remember some of the posts even "I have no idea if these are official or bootleg" yada yada. This isn't just Famicom. It's gameboy, it's sega genesis. What you're doing Is being a hypocrite.
This goes out to everyone else attacking the seller here. If you don't want to buy the persons cartridge, then take your money, and your opinion and go elsewhere with it. It is clear through the numerous messages that it is not original, and still everyone is going on and on about how this seller Is stealing from other people IP.
This is why I stepped down as Mod. We had gotten to a point where we were so lenient and laid back, that we allowed the members to dictate how we did what we were supposed to for the better good of the site and to try and satisfy as many members as possible. There is a reason that task is only given to a few people. Think of the chaos we'd be in if certain members had mod privileges. I have no idea when it changed but our happy community I'd been part of for almost 11 years now seems very tense and separated.
Anyway back to me being banned. UglyJoe is planning on making everything read only, archiving the site and closing down FW for good. He doesn't want this stress if this is how it's going to be. This is his baby and it is being so corrupted that he doesn't even want to bother. It makes no difference to me who believes this or not and frankly I have no interest in showing any proof, or replying to any posts pertaining to this one. The fact is that if you want to have a place to come to discuss the thing you love(which is why we are all here right) then fuck off let this pass.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 08:44:58 pm
Fuck it. Here's the proof. Now smarten the fuck up everyone. That's as official as an unofficial statement can get.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 08:51:35 pm
I'm sorry Mods for busting the info out of staff forums. I'm not deleting f my account because I want as many people as possible to see the post before it's removed. Feel free to block me or what ever. I miss this place the way it used to be before all the bull shit.
Sorry for breaking the trust UglyJoe.
I wouldn't like that.
fcgamer, be a man, follow Parodius Duh and Xious.
By the way, true collectors should understand, that small runs of bootlegs in a couple of decades will skyrocket their value. Plus "there is a story behind it".
krzy, i can try to find my sketches to make your life a bit easier ;)
Quote from: MaarioS on February 19, 2018, 06:20:11 pmThis has been happening for many years and is not about to be changed, so any potential buyers should make sure what they are getting before they buy anything.
Just because it can be done, and is done, doesn't meant it should be accepted and supported.
QuoteIt's almost like complaining someone bought a burned Windows 10 disk signed with a permanent marker on the flea market, you must be aware of dangers and what you are getting and this is the way it works all over the world
Your analogy fails, since that burned disk is obviously not legit, unlike this product which can easily be assumed to be the real deal just by looking at it.
crazyjesse expressed the problem very succinctly and clearly.
Quote from: crazyjesse on February 19, 2018, 10:26:32 pmThe point is that this game was being sold as a "reissue". This implies it is a fully sanctioned endeavour by the original authors. It is a well done reproduction, probably the best I've seen but it is a reproduction nonetheless. [...] the wording is specifically designed to mislead and that no efforts WHATSOEVER were made to distinguish this as a fake. I've seen countless copies been sold as the real deal and this just adds to it. It's not something you want to support.
That is what it was all about.
Also, I'll buy a repro of the game for $25. Can I have it in a blue cart?
I would like to say a few things, and then I'm just going to let off on this topic any further.
When GKill made his initial post about the Metal Force cartridges, yes I was rude. I also threadcrapped in his thread. Partway through that thread I decided to make a thread in the Updates and Suggestions part of the forum, titled (Making near identical carts / boxes / manuals of rare games), hoping that discussion could be moved to that thread, though after having been viewed over 30 times, no one had posted anything there, and discussion from the community (including me) continued in the Metal Force thread.
Last night before going to bed, I saw that someone had shifted all of the comments from the Metal Force thread regarding his product into the thread I had created (Making near identical carts / boxes / manuals of rare games), and I wasn't overly happy about it, as I was hoping that the topic could be addressed not as pertaining to Metal Force, but as pertaining to rare / valuable games /boxes / manuals as a whole, both licensed and unlicensed, but the random mish-mash of dialogue mostly pertained to Metal Force in and of itself.
I then see a thread appear on the main board, attributed to me as its author, with the following name (An Discussion About The Ethics Of Not Identifying 1:1 Reproductions), and within was the banter from the Metal Force thread. That's when I changed the thread name to what it is now, edited the first message, and called it a day, went to bed.
I will admit that I was quite rude in changing the title of this topic, and also with the modified text I wrote in the initial post. For this, I would like to apologize, to UncleJoe, to The Uninvited Gremlin, to L___E___T, to the mods as a whole, for my rudeness and attitude on the matter. Even though I did feel the way that I did when I edited the post, there are much better ways to handle the situation than how I acted, and I am sorry for being so disrespectful towards the mods and to those that keep the site up and running. I will not try to justify my actions, as they were in poor judgement.
Post Merge: February 19, 2018, 11:30:38 pm
A few final thoughts:
Ghegs and crazyjesse seem to understand my feelings towards the whole reproduction / fake cart issue. While I am not sure about jesse, I know that in the past, Ghegs has purchased some rare favorites of his CIB, such as Battle Force, so I suspect he can somewhat relate to my feelings.
@80sFreak: Let's agree to let the past go, okay? ;)
Quote from: MaxXimus on February 19, 2018, 08:40:57 pm
UglyJoe is planning on making everything read only, archiving the site and closing down FW for good. He doesn't want this stress if this is how it's going to be. This is his baby and it is being so corrupted that he doesn't even want to bother. It makes no difference to me who believes this or not and frankly I have no interest in showing any proof, or replying to any posts pertaining to this one. The fact is that if you want to have a place to come to discuss the thing you love(which is why we are all here right) then fuck off let this pass.
If it's this close to actually being closed, something I didn't even realize was in anyone's minds, I think we should just stay away from this topic. Just about everyone who didn't like what GKill was doing now knows about it and can choose not to buy from him, further discussion's not worth it at this point. We have to do what's needed to keep this open.
@MaxXimus: Also I just want to extend a personal apology to you as well. I sincerly hope that nothing comes from the post you made, and I also would just like to apologize for my attitude and behaviors over the past few months, in this thread and in some other threads. We've known each other for a long time, you're one of the good guys here :)
Quote from: krzy on February 19, 2018, 07:54:13 pm
GIve me 2 days and I'll do it on discrete chips for 25$ ;-DDDDDDDDDDDDD
25$ sounds very good! Let's not be petty. I give you a whole week. 8)
I hope the board does not turn out as crap as the previous ones. :fire:
Wow usually I'd have something witty and shitty to say but I'm way too star struck by this whole thing.
I say it again, we need to remember this stuff in the future but for now we need to stop posting in this thread. We can't be giving UglyJoe more reasons to shut down the site. Let's just stop.
Quote from: aitsu124 on February 21, 2018, 12:35:30 pm
I say it again, we need to remember this stuff in the future but for now we need to stop posting in this thread. We can't be giving UglyJoe more reasons to shut down the site. Let's just stop.
I feel the same on the whole matter. I've had quite a few revelations and reflections over the past few days, some good, some bad, some disturbing, though I'll just let it all be.
In a lot of ways, I've been a dick on FW lately, towards a lot of people, that much is regretfully true.