Famicom World

Family Computer => Famicom / Disk System => Topic started by: Great Hierophant on July 19, 2018, 02:05:45 AM



Title: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Great Hierophant on July 19, 2018, 02:05:45 AM
I have good news and bad news for everybody.  The acclaimed NES homebrew game Battle Kid: Fortress of Peril is getting an official release for the Famicom.  There appears to be a Japanese and an English language option.  The bad news is that it is being release by everyone's favorite manufacturer of crap Famicom homebrew cartridges, Columbus Circle : https://akiba-pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/news/1133581.html


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on July 19, 2018, 05:38:14 AM
Heh, Columbus Circle finally figured out they're not that good at creating actual games so they turned to licensing homebrews from others? I'm fine with that.

Pretty interesting, really. The first Battle Kid never got a boxed release on NES to my knowledge, only cart + manual. That box with its heavily japanized visual style + green cart do look pretty nice, I must admit.

I never did get too much into the game as the I Wanna Be The Guy-inspired gameplay isn't my thing, but that's still cool.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on July 20, 2018, 08:38:39 AM
I'm extremely excited about this, yet also feel that it has been long overdue, since the programmer (despite being a westerner) lives in Japan, and has done so for many years.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on July 22, 2018, 02:48:53 PM
It looks like they are still using dangerous 3.3 V boards but with a bit less crappy quality (http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=17557&start=15#p221629) this time so it will kill work with more Famicoms.
I can't believe they keep doing this shit. :(


I'm with Ghegs, I wanna be the guy isn't really my cup of tea, although I love Rockman games. I don't like zero acceleration platformers very much (in more primitive platformers like Donkey Kong it's fine though), even Rockman has a slight acceleration curve before he reaches max speed. Also I don't like the character design of the main character sprite, it is drawn way too simple. This release seems to have improved character portraits in cut-scenes though.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on July 23, 2018, 02:19:46 PM
Pre-orders up on Play-Asia (https://www.play-asia.com/battle-kid-dangerous-trap/13/70c6pz), release in September.

I already have the NES version so I'm not going to double-dip, especially since it comes on the potentially console-killing boards.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Retrospectives on August 09, 2018, 02:06:59 PM
Pre-orders up on Play-Asia (https://www.play-asia.com/battle-kid-dangerous-trap/13/70c6pz), release in September.

I already have the NES version so I'm not going to double-dip, especially since it comes on the potentially console-killing boards.

I see no reason about anything interesting in this. The NES version when it first released, I remember the hype. As comparsion, retro home computer. No matter MSX, PC88, ZX Spectrum, etc. You have Doujin/Homebrew games all over it.

Sure when a new NES/FC game is release as homebrew, I totally support it. But if releasing a game 8 year after the initial release just with some new fancy graphic, it take away the interest totally.

My point: NES/FC homebrew scene is very small = I totally understand we are not as generously provided with homebrews. But after 8-years releasing it on FC even using bad 3.3v PCB is telling me one thing = Greed.



Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on August 10, 2018, 03:42:37 PM
I think releasing Battle Kid for Famicom is only a good thing, since it's aimed at the Japanese retro audience who most likely haven't had a chance to play it before. Sure it's taken many years, but this might be the first time a Japanese company licenses a western NES homebrew. If things go well, maybe they'll get more into it and release more NES homebrews for Famicom, with faster "porting" times. They probably chose Battle Kid because it's likely the most well-known and competent NES homebrew.

Other than the board the release appears to be well-thought out, with the manual, green case and anime-style boxart. The PCB is the only confounding thing, why do they keep using it? Is this Columbus Circle's attempt to force people to buy their Famicom clones? I would've thought Japanese retro gamers prefer using official Famicoms since they're almost literally dime-a-dozen over there, but it's not like I can confirm this.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on August 10, 2018, 06:16:28 PM
 
 
 
 
Sure it's not great about the Columbus PCBs, but I'm quite surprised that some people are complaining about the release - isn't this what they wanted?

More options are generally not a bad thing - having a proper Famicom release, localised as well - who cares if it's late, you can't ask for more than that.

I wish the cost was a bit lower and the PCBs didn't harm the board, but I'll likely pick it up all the same.  And I really hope we see more proper releases.

- edit note "complaining about the release" in ways other than the ampage.  The choice of game, the localisation, the timing, the packaging etc.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Retrospectives on August 11, 2018, 06:02:03 AM
Sure, I agree is a good thing to have localized and such. But after eight year they want release it in anime style just because stereotype Japanese must like anime style? For me is much more respect if they release it under proper license from another company than CS and really make sure they market themself as westerner. Why? Because Japanese audience would love to see foreigner dev for the Japanese market and the interest would gain very much following.

Sure, most Japan casual retro gamer never heard of this, but just like other people outside Japan have a great interest and knowledge about Famicom. Japanese retro scene catching up very quickly just in the last ten years with twitter and such social networking I see at least for most "hardcore" collector into FC or retro game, they following or are followed by at least 10% westerner, and I get retweet of friends who retweeting thing from global community rather than Japan only. So in many way it go around both ways, and Japan is no exception nowadays as opposed to before when mostly message board, IRC, mailing list existed, because back then Japan scene was hard to get into, and international scene was hard for Japanese to get into I suppose.

Anyway I hope it can open a door to more games being released for FC so is not a bad thing, but I wish they chose not CS and in my opinion, no need of anime style.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 11, 2018, 12:07:38 PM
Anime style is great - the company is trying to localize and market the game towards a Japanese audience.  It is the very reverse of how Famicom games had been brought to the NES and then localized / altered, in an attempt to appeal to more people and sell more copies.  Whether making in an animation style will actually appeal to more Japanese or not, who knows, but that is surely the intention behind it all.  No harm in that. 

Likewise, I think it's great that the game is receiving a Famicom release, even after eight years or whatever.  Retrospectives, you may have stated that the motivations were greed, I beg to differ.  Years ago I had contacted the programmer of said game and asked him about making me a customized Famicom version of the game, paying full price+ for it (for a loose version at that), and even providing a proper donor board...I didn't collect NES, wanted to play the game, and didn't want to support piracy efforts either.  I likewise even offered to help him make a small run of Famicom versions of the games, all parts supplied by me, all profits going to him, and heard crickets for the effort.  It's no big deal on my part, I'm not offended or anything, but my point is, if someone doesn't take an opportunity up to essentially make money for free, then I think saying they are being greedy because later a professional company contacts them and asks to release a game is quite off base -- Sivak may be many things, but greedy he is not.

About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on August 11, 2018, 12:44:25 PM
About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

I'm just going to ignore the totally ridiculous comparison of human DNA and "Famicom's genetic code".

Are you seriously defending console-killing PCBs on the grounds that "the game's not developed for the original system, so it's okay"? How about developing the games for the original system first so retro gamers don't need to fear their systems being fried AND the game is compatible with all Famiclones as well? If your (=Columbus Circle's) Famiclone can't properly play games that are made for the original system, then it's a shitty Famiclone that doesn't deserve one bit of support. NES homebrews make it a point that the game is fully playable on a real, original NES and, y'know, doesn't destroy it. It boggles my mind that Columbus Circle doesn't have the same mindset, but if you consider it from a business standpoint of wanting to sell their Famiclones as well, then it makes sense. This is not a business model that should be supported by consumers. Worst case scenario it will only create a breeding ground for games that can only be played on a specific model of Famiclones and are completely unplayable on anything else.

Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.

Quote
Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 

Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 11, 2018, 12:58:22 PM
Regarding your last sentence:  You should think about what the person you are buying for would prefer, instead of purchasing what you would personally want yourself :P  Working with children myself, I can almost guarantee that Little Jimmy or Johnny won't notice the difference between a real machine and a clone, performance wise, and will indeed notice a HUGE difference in presentation.  I've been there and done that a billion times over.

If you were around long enough to remember the original homebrew efforts, there were tons of games and demos that were developed that (after flash drives and stuff lke that were developed), were discovered not to work on real hardware, but did run fine on emulators.  The list on NES World used to document this, no idea if it still does or not, but it would be worth a look.

Likewise, we should not forget all of the current multicarts, and the games from Waixing / Nanjing / etc that will not properly run on original hardware, yet will indeed run properly on clone consoles.  It doesn't make these unworthy of playing though...

One needs to keep in mind that clone machines were originally developed by reverse-engineering and copying original hardware, illegally.  Later, revisions would be made to make the machines cheaper, that's how we got things like NOAC.  Now the Nintendo patents have expired, I guess everyone can update and "improve" things even more, making them cheaper and what not. 

My point is though, it is what it is.  So many folks complain about the games not running in original hardware without potential damage, but what about those the world over, who AREN'T RUNNING on original hardware?  If there was a big enough market for clones to be released in Japan, surely that market is one million times larger, the world over.  Especially given the lack of AV on original Famicom machines.  I can pretty much guarantee that the folks on the island I'm living on really couldn't care less about the game running more safely on a clone console, and I'm sure in other parts of the world, the sentiment would be the same.  If it's such a big issue, surely after four+ releases, those in Japan (the main market, I would guess) surely would take issue? 

About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

I'm just going to ignore the totally ridiculous comparison of human DNA and "Famicom's genetic code".

Are you seriously defending console-killing PCBs on the grounds that "the game's not developed for the original system, so it's okay"? How about developing the games for the original system first so retro gamers don't need to fear their systems being fried AND the game is compatible with all Famiclones as well? If your (=Columbus Circle's) Famiclone can't properly play games that are made for the original system, then it's a shitty Famiclone that doesn't deserve one bit of support. NES homebrews make it a point that the game is fully playable on a real, original NES and, y'know, doesn't destroy it. It boggles my mind that Columbus Circle doesn't have the same mindset, but if you consider it from a business standpoint of wanting to sell their Famiclones as well, then it makes sense. This is not a business model that should be supported by consumers. Worst case scenario it will only create a breeding ground for games that can only be played on a specific model of Famiclones and are completely unplayable on anything else.

Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.

Quote
Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 

Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Retrospectives on August 11, 2018, 01:14:37 PM

Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.


Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.

This is the main issue for me and Columbus Circle. They have the experience, and they have the feedback to listen to customer, to make the small change that would not cost very much to change. I suppose they still sit on stock from their older releases and trying save cost. Or else it makes no sense.

Regards of FC original or not. Not my thing of discuss since myself own both original, fpga, famiclones with discrete logics, or more modern NOAC just for sake of curiosity, ... If thing cannot play on original hardware, is okay if stating it was not the intention. But if releasing something saying "Famicom soft", then is clearly marketed for Famicom as a system, and not for Famiclone.

They could go easy route stating "This is potentially harmful for the original Famicom, please use with caution", or "Not intended for original Famicom" or just some type of warning, for me is just a fair way regarding Columbus Circle. So in that regard is pure greed they do not change it, and about anime style or not, is just my subjective opinion. Many people I talk with from other country than Japan say "I collect Famicom because I want to experience the real original system and library", nothing wrong with that, and my opinion is just I think if it would be more appealing if release it as it was originally intended, then for me is feeling more genuine, but I understand people have different opinion. Of course.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 12, 2018, 09:09:32 AM
As long as they keep destroying our Famicoms we are not going to shut up about this. It's totally unacceptable. :(

I have nothing against Famiclones and I'm totally for supporting them too (I'm including Micro Genius-based Famiclone support in my homebrew myself since those are well documented), and I also understand that there are people growing up with Pegasus, Dendy and swapped duty cycles, but I still see little point in considering anything else but the original Famicom (and NTSC/PAL NES) as the standard definition.

Sure old homebrew only worked in emulators because the knowledge of the hardware simply wasn't as well known as it is today. Those games will fail on modern emulators as well and they can't be considered fully working Famicom games simply because they don't follow the rules. That couldn't be helped back then but now the hardware has been reverse-engineered into molecules and we probably know a lot more about it than many licensed developers did back in the day (many of their faulty assumptions and mistakes are well known at least). And the fact that it is no longer protected by patent is just an even bigger reason to consider it the the standard.

It's not like an MSX where only the programmable parts are standardized and companies could build computers with all kinds of stuff as long as they didn't change any of the programmable parts. Developers for the Famicom utilized all kinds of peculiarities of the hardware which are doomed to fail on clones that change things too much (although this happened on MSX too because developers wasn't used to this kind of possible variance in hardware and ignored the definition rules).

Things like Waixing must be considered another Famicom-derived system as their games are incompatible and do not follow the standard.
Sivak however did follow the standard as far as I know, and this game is marketed as a Famicom game. Yet Columbus Circle did such a shitty job despite being capable of better.

The part about anime style I think was about Retrospective not liking that they localized the game for Japan. I understand how he feels fully on this matter. Not because I dislike anime style or anything but because of the countless times I swore at companies destroying perfectly great games with their shitty localization decisions and faulty assumptions of what I like.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: UglyJoe on August 13, 2018, 02:29:30 AM
As per the Wikipedia page for Battle Kid, the Japanese release has been reworked quite a bit.  They did more than just update the art.  Also, regarding the anime style in particular, the sequel to Battle Kid also had anime-style cutscene graphics, so it wasn't something that was just done to cater to a Japanese audience.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Retrospectives on August 13, 2018, 07:59:15 AM
As per the Wikipedia page for Battle Kid, the Japanese release has been reworked quite a bit.  They did more than just update the art.  Also, regarding the anime style in particular, the sequel to Battle Kid also had anime-style cutscene graphics, so it wasn't something that was just done to cater to a Japanese audience.

I see. Yeah, I think is what P said about localization, just my subjective opinion. Many time thing tend to become "Japanized" in a way that intention might be good but result the opposite. Example is many year, we never had option of subtitles on English movies but they were directly dubbed into Japanese. Still on TV they dub. For me as I wanted study English and really getting grasp of the type of humour or context get lost in translation so I tend like when thing stay the way it "originally intended", but if already anime style was intended then I understand and for me is not really that big deal, especially not only for a platform game hehe.

I just wish they went through different retailer in Japan as I know there are other company totally competent of release the game with safe boards but that is again up to them and I apologze anyone if there was misunderstanding regarding my view. I am not that all negative to releases is just not that interesting for me personally since I knew about this particular game since many year, but if can open up more eye for other Japanese people to get a glimpse into more western devs I am more than happy.  :D


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on August 14, 2018, 06:27:30 AM
As per the Wikipedia page for Battle Kid, the Japanese release has been reworked quite a bit.

Oh, I didn't realize there were so many changes. With all that it's almost Battle Kid 1.5. The change from one-hit kills to hitpoints is especially interesting, that should diminish the I Wanna Be The Guy-feel of the game quite a lot. New stage and boss is cool as well.

That Wiki page also says bit-games re-programmed the game from scratch to encompass all those changes. That's pretty hardcore. Damn, now I'm starting to be really bummed out about the boards, I want to try this version out.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: SteelGeneral on August 18, 2018, 11:45:29 PM
I'm not familiar with Columbus Circle and their Famiclones/Homebrew carts but I'm interested in the Famicom Battle Kid and Neo Heiankyo Alien. What exactly is dangerous about them? I've read all the links from this thread but can't find much info elsewhere. If I bought them I'd primarily be playing on a RetroUSB AVS. Would they be safe on there or just as dangerous as on an original Famicom?


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: UglyJoe on August 19, 2018, 12:12:27 AM
Neo Heiankyo Alien

I'd recommend against that one :-[


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 19, 2018, 05:49:48 AM
I'm not familiar with Columbus Circle and their Famiclones/Homebrew carts but I'm interested in the Famicom Battle Kid and Neo Heiankyo Alien. What exactly is dangerous about them? I've read all the links from this thread but can't find much info elsewhere. If I bought them I'd primarily be playing on a RetroUSB AVS. Would they be safe on there or just as dangerous as on an original Famicom?

Long story short (from my understanding), the pcbs regulate the voltage differently and insuficiently. So playing the game on an original Famicom can supposedly cause damage to it.  Simply put, the game was developed for use on clone machines.  An unlicensed game designed for clones. 


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 19, 2018, 08:48:14 AM
The Famicom is built to use 5 V logic and the carts Columbus Circle keeps using are designed with 3.3 V parts without sufficient conversion between the two voltage levels, which means it's bound to fail at some point. Some of their earlier games didn't work on most Famicoms and other Famicoms broke down when the cart was used. It worked better on some Famiclones that had bigger tolerance to this kind of design (but of course it will probably fry many clones as well). Later games they released seems to have become better so it will work on more Famicoms. But the problem is still there, someone compared it to smoking, it will not immediately slay your Famicom but it will damage it over time and kill it slowly.

Fcgamer seems to think this is a Famicom vs Famiclone problem and keeps defending them for this reason. They are marketing a shitty cart as a Famicom game, making people killing their Famicoms, and that's the problem here.

Also relevant: https://db-electronics.ca/2017/07/05/the-dangers-of-3-3v-flash-in-retro-consoles/


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 19, 2018, 03:01:42 PM

Fcgamer seems to think this is a Famicom vs Famiclone problem and keeps defending them for this reason. They are marketing a shitty cart as a Famicom game, making people killing their Famicoms, and that's the problem here.


I am not the technical guy here, but I would like to ask one simple question, which would require one simple answer (yes / no):  Are the Columbus Circle clones 3.3 V -based or 5 V-based?  What about other modern (cheap) Famiclones being put out by companies such as Subor? 3.3 V or 5 V?  If the answer is yes, the clones are based using 3.3 V as opposed to the 5 of the original Famicom design, then I see absolutely no issue, as the product would essentially be an unlicensed product designed for use on an unlicensed machine.

Furthermore, one could even argue that since the Famicom's patents have expired, this is a Columbus Circle game pak for use on a Columbus Circle Game Entertainment Machine.  ;)  It wouldn't be the first time this has happened, such as the VT02/VT03 & OneBus (Famicom-based) technologies.  Likewise the AVS Machine (is that what the NES/Famicom clone made by bunnyboy is called?) had / has it's own line of NES-based carts, for that own machine.  Going forward we will probably see this more and more.  While the carts do run in some Famicom machines, perhaps it is time to recognize them for what they are, independent game designed for an independt product.

 


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Ghegs on August 19, 2018, 04:37:41 PM
Likewise the AVS Machine (is that what the NES/Famicom clone made by bunnyboy is called?) had / has it's own line of NES-based carts, for that own machine. 

Nope, those games adhere to NES standards so they work on the original NES, AVS, Analogue NT and anything that can run NES cartridges.

This is a really easy thing: If you keep to the NES/Famicom standards, then your game will work with the original consoles (of which 60 million were sold worldwide) as well as whatever clone systems that can properly play NES/Famicom cartridges. This makes sense for both the developer/publisher and the player, right? So your game is playable on pretty much anything.

If you don't stick to NES/Famicom standards, then you're limiting to the game to specific clone systems. Not many people are willing to buy a specific clone just to play a few specific games, if they already have an original console or something else available. The game's user base is limited for no good reason. This doesn't make sense, right?


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 19, 2018, 10:30:02 PM
Yes, those games may adhere to NES standards, but they were developed and being advertised as launch titles for the AVS:

https://www.retrousb.com/

If you go to this website and want to purchase those games, you can't even find them under the homebrew section.  You need to go to the AVS section.  They were AVS launch titles.

While Subor games often will run on real Famicoms, those games were designed for use in Subor Famiclones.  Therefore, as long as they did the job properly there, I doubt it would matter to Subor if their games ran in real hardware or not.

With the VT02/VT03 and OneBus it was the same situation.

Now we are with Columbus Circle, and the tradition continues.  They designed indepdent games for their independent machine, which just also happen to run on some Famicoms, albeit coming with a slight risk.  But if Columbus Circle was manufacturing these games for use on their machine, why do they even need to bother guaranteeing 100% compatibility with original hardware?  As long as they are open on the matter (and it seems as though they are) then I'm honestly not sure what the big deal is.  Does it suck for those who only own / use original hardware?  Sure, but the situation seems pretty much the same as what everybody else has been doing, in the past and present as well.

IMO, the games are doing exactly what the maker advertised and said they would do, i.e. run on their machines, and then possibly on some older hardware but with some potential issues.  Likewise, with some many hardware revisions with original Famicom machines (and then if also throw in official stuff like the Twin Famicom), I'd venture a guess that even if the game were designed to run on "real" hardware specifically, there would still be issues.  The NES has seen these issues before, with certain games (I think The Immortal is one)

Likewise the AVS Machine (is that what the NES/Famicom clone made by bunnyboy is called?) had / has it's own line of NES-based carts, for that own machine. 

Nope, those games adhere to NES standards so they work on the original NES, AVS, Analogue NT and anything that can run NES cartridges.

This is a really easy thing: If you keep to the NES/Famicom standards, then your game will work with the original consoles (of which 60 million were sold worldwide) as well as whatever clone systems that can properly play NES/Famicom cartridges. This makes sense for both the developer/publisher and the player, right? So your game is playable on pretty much anything.

If you don't stick to NES/Famicom standards, then you're limiting to the game to specific clone systems. Not many people are willing to buy a specific clone just to play a few specific games, if they already have an original console or something else available. The game's user base is limited for no good reason. This doesn't make sense, right?


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 20, 2018, 03:06:49 AM

Fcgamer seems to think this is a Famicom vs Famiclone problem and keeps defending them for this reason. They are marketing a shitty cart as a Famicom game, making people killing their Famicoms, and that's the problem here.


I am not the technical guy here, but I would like to ask one simple question, which would require one simple answer (yes / no):  Are the Columbus Circle clones 3.3 V -based or 5 V-based?  What about other modern (cheap) Famiclones being put out by companies such as Subor? 3.3 V or 5 V?  If the answer is yes, the clones are based using 3.3 V as opposed to the 5 of the original Famicom design, then I see absolutely no issue, as the product would essentially be an unlicensed product designed for use on an unlicensed machine.

Furthermore, one could even argue that since the Famicom's patents have expired, this is a Columbus Circle game pak for use on a Columbus Circle Game Entertainment Machine.  ;)  It wouldn't be the first time this has happened, such as the VT02/VT03 & OneBus (Famicom-based) technologies.  Likewise the AVS Machine (is that what the NES/Famicom clone made by bunnyboy is called?) had / has it's own line of NES-based carts, for that own machine.  Going forward we will probably see this more and more.  While the carts do run in some Famicom machines, perhaps it is time to recognize them for what they are, independent game designed for an independt product.
I'm not too technical either and I don't know the answer to that question for sure, but since it's a Famiclone that is compatible with Famicom games, I really doubt it would be 3.3 V or else it will probably damage normal Famicom carts.

The main problem is that they are using parts in a circuit outside of the tolerance, which is something that is widely known to be very bad. That article about flashcarts I linked is supposedly exaggerating some things according to some people, but most still seems to agree that mixing 3.3 V and 5 V is just a very bad idea. So what we have here isn't a compatibility problem but a bad build-quality problem that is potentially harmful for the ROM cartridge and the console. That's why I don't think it's worth defending.

If they really market it as a game for their own partly-Famicom-compatible system it wouldn't be a problem, although I'd prefer they'd use a different cartridge shape so it won't accidentally be inserted into Famicoms in that case, but they clearly wrote Famicom on it and just some small warning note that it may burn most systems its used on. Also even used on their own Famiclones it's still a shitty cart that probably will fail one day due to the 3.3 V and 5 V mixing.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 20, 2018, 03:59:51 AM
From what research I've done just now, I'm pretty certain that some (if not a lot) of the modern Famiclones are running 3.3 V instead of 5, which would make the unauthorized product running perfectly fine on an unauthorized, modern machine.

If (modern) clone machines are running at 3.3 V, and (old) clone machines / original hardware are running at 5 volts, then it demonstrates two diverging paths for the Famicom, if software from one branch cannot be safely ran in a machine on the other branch, but examining the purchasing habits of the consumers, I'd be interested in seeing how things went.

For example, I'd suspect that people purchasing modern Subor clones would also be purchasing modern multicarts or aliexpress singles to fill their game library, primarily.  Just like a purist would probably purchase a real Famicom, and a handful of legit, licensed carts.  Then there are folks that sit everywhere between these two positions, who own multiple clones and legit hardware, bootleg carts and legit carts.

As ironic as it sounds, I'd imagine Japan being the exception (just because of how easy it is there to access real hardware and real carts for an affordable price).  Elsewhere, worldwide, I am certain that many casual gamers would walk into an electronics store, see a cheap Famiclone and then some cheap multis or whatever, pick them up to get a nostalic thrill and then be done after a few months.  We've seen this before, basically, only with NES / SNES Classic (though both are legit products).

Likewise though, if new Famiclones are being made (and successfully selling) in Japan, maybe the same thing is going on there. 

That is why I am able to defend the product.  We are collectors, but for many folks, 3.3 V machines are the rage, and likewise, this unauthorized game is being developed for use on a modern, unauthorized system. 

Two different branches, basically how the Famicom evolved. 


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: SteelGeneral on August 20, 2018, 11:29:22 AM
Thanks everyone for filling me in! I never would've have thought about the voltages on repro boards if I didn't stumble on this thread. I suppose I'll avoid the Columbus Circle titles for the time being.

This whole thing makes me wonder who Columbus Circle's market is. They can't be selling that many famiclones can they? And the average famiclone buyer probably isn't looking for homebrew titles. I mean I consider myself a pretty diehard retro game collector and I didn't get into NES homebrews until a year or two ago.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on August 20, 2018, 12:04:29 PM
This whole thing makes me wonder who Columbus Circle's market is.

 
Thank you for raising this - this to me, is the key point.  Who is their target market?  Surely it is Famicom aficionados.  People in Japan that love the little official machine.
 
So why make a product that harms that machine?  Bound to be problematic and of course it doesn't make sense.  That's not to say the release doesn't have merit though.  

I think it's pretty silly honestly that they are in this situation where the people that should be buying and celebrating your game the most are actively put off buying it at all...  

In which case it's foolish from a business POV - it's definitely going to limit sales to some degree from their target market.  So it really seems foolish to go with that decision.

Trouble is they're now locked in to this decision.  They won't want to consider this a mistake, but this FW thread alone is testament to how much it put off your target market.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 20, 2018, 12:59:25 PM
The problem is though, imo, that we are examining the situation from the eyes of purist collectors - therefore I beg to differ on the whole situation.

As an example:  Over my lunch break I'll typically swing by the post office, to either mail out packages or to pick up items that I've ordered.  By 14:00, my students are waking up from their naps, and they get quite curious as to what I have in the packages, especially since they know I like gaming, and also have a wide variety of "nerd toys" at my desk, i.e. Mario and Pokemon toys mostly, picked up over the years.

Appropiate or not, my students often ask me for a sneak peak at what's in the packages, and I often oblige, as I can then consolidate things a bit instead of carrying huge boxes home. One of my students (five years old) saw one of my Famicom carts one day, and said "Oh I have some of those".  I thought to myself, "Yeah right, I don't even think you know what it is" but the next day, lo and behold, he brought his cartridge in and showed me.  It was a modern Famiclone multicart, the type that would be using 3.3 V and wouldn't run properly in real hardware.

While modern clone machines can still be easily found at game shops here in Taiwan (as well as modern multicarts), I highly doubt the kid said to his daddy, "Hey I want one of those!"  This especially holds true when the kids I am teaching are primarily from extremely rich high class families.  What more than likely happened is that the dad popped his head into a shop, saw a Famiclone, felt nostalgic, and plunked down $15 to purchase it and a game or two, played it for a few months, and then had his fix.

I feel quite confident that the same syndrome is happening world wide, with the price of clones so cheap, and the availability so high, especially after the Nintendo patents wore off.  With that being held true, I can quite easily see folks being interested and curious enough to purchase a few homebrew / aftermarket games for the machine, if they are being stocked readily available, at that point when the nostalgia bug hits.  It's simple, and brilliant really.  People see the machine, feel nostalgic, also see a new piece of software for it, purchase the machine (in this case Columbus Circles) and the software, call it a day.

Although it feels counter-intuitive to those of us here on these forums, this seems to be a better business strategy than to be marketing new games at a very small niche market of gamers.  ;) 

As an anecdote of sorts, even my gf knows of the Final Music Columbus Circle cart, and so does her friend, who had gone to Japan.  Although my gf occassionally plays games, she is definitely not into things on the same level as anyone here.   

This whole thing makes me wonder who Columbus Circle's market is.

 
Thank you for raising this - this to me, is the key point.  Who is their target market?  Surely it is Famicom aficionados.  People in Japan that love the little official machine.
 
So why make a product that harms that machine?  Bound to be problematic and of course it doesn't make sense.  That's not to say the release doesn't have merit though.  

I think it's pretty silly honestly that they are in this situation where the people that should be buying and celebrating your game the most are actively put off buying it at all...  

In which case it's foolish from a business POV - it's definitely going to limit sales to some degree from their target market.  So it really seems foolish to go with that decision.

Trouble is they're now locked in to this decision.  They won't want to consider this a mistake, but this FW thread alone is testament to how much it put off your target market.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on August 20, 2018, 03:36:32 PM
 
 
 
 
I get what you're saying and I know what you mean.  The product isn't made exclusively with people like us in mind, but you have to realise - purists are going to be the primary / target market (can elaborate why) and as such it really is a bad business decision to have something in your product that actively acts against purchases for that top target group.

Sure some kids and clone owners will pick it up, but when the game is double the cost of your average clone machine - don't bank on tons of orders, they're price sensitive.

Purists on the other hand will drop megabucks on stuff they have to own - there's just less of them.  You also rely on those folks to evangelise for you - not slay the product.

So that's why I think it's a poor decision - I can only guess they went with a cheap option, and found out a bout it later.  Too late / expensive to do anything real about it now.

Compare this with the Classic Mini series, or the Super NT - where the emulation has bee fine tuned and a pixel perfect option exists for example.  It really matters for sales.



Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 20, 2018, 03:45:31 PM

 
 
 
I get what you're saying and I know what you mean.  The product isn't made exclusively with people like us in mind, but you have to realise - purists are going to be the primary or target market (can elaborate why) and as such it really is a bad business decision to have something in your product that actively acts against purchases for that top target group.

Sure some kids and clone owners will pick it up, but when the game is double the cost of your average clone machine - don't bank on tons of orders, they're price sensitive.

Purists on the other hand will drop megabucks on stuff they have to own - there's just less of them.  You also rely on those folks to evangelise for you - not slay the product.

So that's why I think it's a poor decision - I can only guess they went with a cheap option, and found out a bout it later.  Too late / expensive to do anything real about it now.

Compare this with the Classic Mini series, or the Super NT - where the emulation has bee fine tuned and a pixel perfect option exists for example.  It really matters for sales.



I think you are over-estimating and ignoring the reality here.  ;)  We are the minority of the market, whether we like it or not.  Period.

Therefore, the so-called "bad business decision" actually aren't so bad, if we acknowledge the fact that we sit in the minority.

There are "purists" on this very site that talk about / actively purchase the so-called "repro" carts.

This is what, the fourth or fifth game in?  It adhears to any other Famiclone (i.e. unauthorized) "Famicom" game being produced in this day and age, or in reality, for the past 15+ years...

Only those "purists" that fail to see that Famicom diverged two paths during the turn of the century are up in arms about this.  It's basically the same as if we got upset and didn't want to recognize English and German or English and Dutch as separate languages.  


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on August 20, 2018, 09:18:36 PM
 
 
 
 
I struggled to read that as most of it has a strikethrough.  No I really don't agree with your stance because I was talking about the core target market - not the retro market overall.

Numerically, we are a minority as is any niche.  But that misses the point - you need your easiest to reach customers with most affinity to be the easiest sell, and they've broken that.

I don't mind clones myself (prefer original hardware though) but I've not seen or heard anyone talk about this two paths thing apart from you.  But there's nothing wrong with the opinion.

I don't agree that a price sensitive clone buyer is the main intended customer TBH.  A $40 Famicom game is not chump change, and why make the effort to have it look like the real thing?

It's simple in my eyes - that Famicom fans want to play on a Famicom, and play real carts out of nostalgic charm.  Even CC's retro machines are adorned with FC livery so they must get it.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 21, 2018, 09:54:48 AM
Yeah they probably picked the cheap option without realizing that it's defective and now they are sitting on a pile of defective carts they need to get rid of like Retrospectives said.

If they want to sell it as a cart for a specific clone then they shouldn't write Famicom on it. That's just false advertising, and also really bad, especially as it's harmful.


Columbus Circle games aren't just normal modern pirate stuff, the earlier ones failed on way too many systems and even broke some of them. This is really just bad build-quality, nothing else.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 21, 2018, 11:10:29 AM
I think we all need to take a step back here, and examine things from an unbiased perspective, as opposed to a collector perspective.

If we look at the boxes, they say the following on them:  "FC/FC互換機用". so basically Famicom + Famiclone.

These are unlicensed productions, however.  Per Nintendo's own website:

https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/licensed.jsp

"UNLICENSED PRODUCTS
If a product does not carry one of the seals listed above, it is likely not licensed by Nintendo. Unlicensed products and accessories do not undergo Nintendo's testing and evaluation process. They may not work at all with our game systems, and they may have compatibility problems with certain games or accessories."


I remember years back hearing Nintendo campaign about how unlicensed products *actually could damage* your machines.  Not sure if there was any truth to this or not, but it certainly seems relevant to this thread.

So by this point, we have arrived at the fact that the company advertises the games as being compatible with a Nintendo product, and that Nintendo states that compatibility issues are one of the known factors / risks from using unlicensed products.  If I dug through Archive.org, I am sure I could find Nintendo sending even nastier / scarier messages about the usage of unlicensed products.

As an aside, think about all of the unlicensed Nintendo NES game companies of yesteryear, and how there were so many compatibility problems, aside from modifying the machine and disabling the lockout chip ;)  This really isn't a new issue, at all.

Now I don't read Japanese aside from the shared Japanese / Chinese kanji, but here is a nice passage from the Columbus Circle website about their games.  Please use a translator like I did, or for those that can read Japanese, please read it in it's original form:

"◆ご注意◆
※本製品は任天堂社のライセンス製品ではございません。純正カセットの仕様とは異なりますので、
 純正FC・NEW FC・twin FCについては製造時期等により正常に動作しない場合があります。あらかじめご了承ください。
※他社FC互換機は、動作保証対象外となります。
※FC互換機については、純正FCと音が異なる場合や音が乱れる場合があります。
※本製品はコロンバスサークルのオリジナル製品であり、任天堂社のライセンス製品ではありません。
※記載されている名称または商品名は各社の商標または登録商標です"

So Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.  It seems like an okay thing from where I sit, they are selling machines and then making software to go with it.  Same thing with Famicom One Bus / V whatever it is called, etc.  Basically Famicom-based, but its own thing at the same time.  Just like Mr. Parker releasing a line of launch titles for his AVS. 

That is my issue with the complaints.  You guys don't know what or who the market for these games is, yet get up in arms when the unlicensed software doesn't work properly on licensed hardware.  Or to stir the pot a bit more, since the cartridge is a Columbus Circle game and was designed to be compatible with Columbus Circle game machines, I suppose one could argue that the Nintendo's Famicom would be the unlicensed version ;)  Anyway, we all complain that the games don't run properly on our original hardware, yet Columbus Circle did the exact same thing every other unlicensed company ever did, and they even advertise this. 

Just buy one of their cheap clones and be done with it, or just buy the game and run it in original Famicom hardware, taking a chance that it might get damaged, or just buy the game and run it in someone else's clone, which probably would also offer similar compatibility. 

One last thing regarding marketability:  If Columbus Circle is successfully selling Famiclones IN JAPAN then I think that says A LOT in terms of market.  As I said earlier, going to buy a game machine for your nephew, is he going to want a booger-stained Famicom sans box, or a cheap, shiny, sleek Famiclone, brand spanking new?  We all know wherein the answer lies.




Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Great Hierophant on August 21, 2018, 12:10:54 PM
Has anyone bought a Columbus Circle Famiclone?  It is pretty much a crapshoot when it comes to Famiclones and NES Clones whether they have accurate sound.  Columbus Circle's earlier titles focused heavily on music.  I would suggest that most of those musicians composed their music with the assistance of accurate emulators.  How ironic would it be for CC's own consoles to have reversed duty pulse waves whereas official consoles and other competitors have proper duty cycle pulse waves.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 21, 2018, 01:48:34 PM
Yes of course Sivak developed the game for NES, it's just that it got licensed and produced on crappy carts. How would he be able to develop for a crappy clone system that isn't even documented? Columbus reprogrammed it from scratch but did they really change the duty cycle just so that it would sound like it should on their clone?

Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.
So you mean we should forgive them for doing a crappy job despite being capable of better just because they admit it was a crappy job? They are still selling the harmful crap to people.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: krzy on August 21, 2018, 02:37:49 PM
I have finished my project of 5V->3.3V level translator that allows safe use of Chinese multicarts :)

(https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820.jpg)


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 21, 2018, 04:09:33 PM
Forgive them for doing what they said they were doing?  If you don't like the item then vote with your money, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they did.  It might not adhere to your standards, but that's just how it goes, and as it was explained before, there are plenty of reasons why what the did isn't some great sin against gamers, like you and some others on here make it out to be.

Yes of course Sivak developed the game for NES, it's just that it got licensed and produced on crappy carts. How would he be able to develop for a crappy clone system that isn't even documented? Columbus reprogrammed it from scratch but did they really change the duty cycle just so that it would sound like it should on their clone?

Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.
So you mean we should forgive them for doing a crappy job despite being capable of better just because they admit it was a crappy job? They are still selling the harmful crap to people.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 22, 2018, 12:15:13 AM
I'd agree with you if the carts weren't proven to be harmful.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on August 22, 2018, 03:16:36 AM
I'd agree with you if the carts weren't proven to be harmful.

Thing is though that sort of situation has been the case for all unlicensed products since the beginning.

Post Merge: August 22, 2018, 03:17:06 AM
So it's nothing new or surprising


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on August 22, 2018, 08:44:57 AM
Sure, licensed or unlicensed shitty products are nothing new, but I don't see why we should accept them. These are shitty products well deserving the harsh critics they get. I don't think there's so much to discuss here.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on August 22, 2018, 09:18:14 AM
 
 
 
 
It isn't surprising when it's presented as a cheap knockoff game.  It IS surprising when it's put out as a brand new Famicom release, as close to official as you can get.

That's the issue - it's positioned as a game for serious Famicom or retro Nintendo fans.  It's not going to change but people are right to be annoyed about that.

Locking thread for now, will probably re-open when it's released.  I've pre-ordered the game, it arrives next month.  Not sure about how to play it yet.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on September 20, 2018, 10:25:05 AM
 
 
 
 
Decided to cancel my Battle Kid pre-order, as it's a busy end of year with some amazing games & products hitting shelves.

So I won't get this straight away to be able to test or anything.

Thread is therefore unlocked - so please post your impressions if anyone does pick it up.

Thread is therefore unlocked, but let's keep any new discussion decent, we don't need any more walls of text it's fair to say.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 20, 2018, 01:56:08 PM

 
 
 
Decided to cancel my Battle Kid pre-order, as it's a busy end of year with some amazing games & products hitting shelves.

So I won't get this straight away to be able to test or anything.

Thread is therefore unlocked - so please post your impressions if anyone does pick it up.

Thread is therefore unlocked, but let's keep any new discussion decent, we don't need any more walls of text it's fair to say.

I haven't ordered the game yet, been too many other purchases and things going on.  Maybe I can scrape together some cash to order it next month, it would be a nice treat for October.

We already know the impressions though, no offense but the jury (you included) had already decided the verdict before the product was even released. The games are unlicensed and being clearly marketed for use on the company's own brand machines, but the majority of people have complaints due to the voltage differences compared to an original Famicom cart.

On another note, L__E__T, what constitutes a "decent" discussion?  One that doesn't go against your own personal thoughts and opinions, or the majority opinions?  Despite piles of marketing evidence painting different pictures?  Thanks for the jab about the decency of my posts and wall of text evidence, btw.  I'm glad to know that the stance is that if someone has a differing opinion from a majority / vocal minority (?) that their thoughts are considered indecent.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on September 20, 2018, 05:05:27 PM
 
 
 
 
Thereís no personal jab - letís just avoid any kind of flaming and reign in the temptation for a dissertation style case.

Keen to see impressions of the new parts of the game when itís out.  No commentary from me on CCís strategy etc.

Not much more that can be said for harmful PCBs etc.  Itís a marmite issue almost - most either hate it or donít care.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on September 20, 2018, 09:53:43 PM
We already know the impressions though, no offense but the jury (you included) had already decided the verdict before the product was even released. The games are unlicensed and being clearly marketed for use on the company's own brand machines, but the majority of people have complaints due to the voltage differences compared to an original Famicom cart.
You are just going to make it locked again by bringing this up again. I don't buy your arguments and although you call them evidence they still look highly subjective to me. I'm not going to continue this discussion.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 21, 2018, 12:40:15 AM

 
 
 
Thereís no personal jab - letís just avoid any kind of flaming and reign in the temptation for a dissertation style case.

Keen to see impressions of the new parts of the game when itís out.  No commentary from me on CCís strategy etc.

Not much more that can be said for harmful PCBs etc.  Itís a marmite issue almost - most either hate it or donít care.

I don't think anyone did any sort of flaming previously. 

About dissertation style, personally I would rather see someone state his or her case, and present evidence to support it, rather than see someone make a statement such as "since these are the closest thing we can get to real, legitimate releases these days, they should be treated as such and automatically considered marketed for original hardware."  But again I know I am in the minority here, preferring objective examination to gut feelings, prejudices, and emotion.



Post Merge: September 21, 2018, 12:49:59 AM
We already know the impressions though, no offense but the jury (you included) had already decided the verdict before the product was even released. The games are unlicensed and being clearly marketed for use on the company's own brand machines, but the majority of people have complaints due to the voltage differences compared to an original Famicom cart.
You are just going to make it locked again by bringing this up again. I don't buy your arguments and although you call them evidence they still look highly subjective to me. I'm not going to continue this discussion.

As I had said earlier to L__E__T, I personally prefer the sharing of opinions, no matter how different, than threads being locked over it, especially in situations as this thread, where nothing was heated or antagonistic to begin with.

With that being stated, let's move forward and discuss what should have been the major topic to begin with, the game itself!

Has anyone got it yet?  Anyone intend on picking it up?


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on September 21, 2018, 07:23:43 AM
 
 
 
 
I never actually said that in those words you've quoted - but thanks for moving on.  This became a horribly political sort of thread and that's not what anyone wants on FW.

I probably will still get the game at some point as I'm keen to play and support it, so any impressions on if the new changes improve the quality or somehow don't, are great.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 21, 2018, 01:02:43 PM

 
 
 
I never actually said that in those words you've quoted - but thanks for moving on.  This became a horribly political sort of thread and that's not what anyone wants on FW.

I probably will still get the game at some point as I'm keen to play and support it, so any impressions on if the new changes improve the quality or somehow don't, are great.

I never attributed said words to you.  ;)  I guess if the shoe fits, wear it though?

Regarding moving on or not:  next time someone brings up the senseless gripe about an unauthorized product not being 100% compatible with original hardware, for which it was not specifically designd / guaranteed to work, then I'll be bringing up the marketing bit again, guaranteed.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: L___E___T on September 21, 2018, 02:07:27 PM
 
 
 
 
Quotation marks mean you're quoting someone.  And here we go again.  This thread doesn't need to read like a broken record, it's relentless.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on September 21, 2018, 10:17:51 PM
Regarding moving on or not:  next time someone brings up the senseless gripe about an unauthorized product not being 100% compatible with original hardware, for which it was not specifically designd / guaranteed to work, then I'll be bringing up the marketing bit again, guaranteed.
You are not the victim of being silenced for your opinions nor are you the neutral part of the discussion as you pretend to be (how can what you say both be subjective opinions and objective facts at the same time anyway?). You are just being an ass now, I hope you realize that.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 21, 2018, 11:09:49 PM
Regarding moving on or not:  next time someone brings up the senseless gripe about an unauthorized product not being 100% compatible with original hardware, for which it was not specifically designd / guaranteed to work, then I'll be bringing up the marketing bit again, guaranteed.
You are not the victim of being silenced for your opinions nor are you the neutral part of the discussion as you pretend to be (how can what you say both be subjective opinions and objective facts at the same time anyway?). You are just being an ass now, I hope you realize that.

I dont particularly appreciate such titles being bestowed upon me, but I'll let that be for what it is.

While I do find the endless negative banter surrounding this and the other Columbus Circle games to be very tiresome to hear (we all saw the situation for what it is, and it remains what it is, basically...I'd rather focus on the games than the voltage issue), aside from being tired of said complaining, I honestly couldn't care less about it.

As I've said earlier, I can see and recognise the common perspective regarding these games and situation. I was just trying to present another possible viewpoint, whether it is "correct" or not, who knows, but I am the sort that feels not everything in life is black and white.

If trying to see other viewpoints makes you or others here feel uncomfortable, I'm honestly not sure what to say by it. I'm sorry for offending you guys?


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: UglyJoe on September 22, 2018, 12:57:10 AM
The fact that they're allowing for multiple hits before dying (instead of one-hit kills) really is a game changer.  It will make the game less frustrating, but i do wonder if it'll not be quite as much fun. 

Each screen is pretty much a puzzle that you have to figure out, but if you can get hit a few times then you can just run through the really hard ones without thinking.  Where's the sense of accomplishment?

On the other hand, I never finished Battle Kid because I got to a screen that I just couldn't figure out (or couldn't execute).  If I were able to take a hit and keep going, then I might have kept playing.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 22, 2018, 02:03:22 AM
The fact that they're allowing for multiple hits before dying (instead of one-hit kills) really is a game changer.  It will make the game less frustrating, but i do wonder if it'll not be quite as much fun. 

Each screen is pretty much a puzzle that you have to figure out, but if you can get hit a few times then you can just run through the really hard ones without thinking.  Where's the sense of accomplishment?

On the other hand, I never finished Battle Kid because I got to a screen that I just couldn't figure out (or couldn't execute).  If I were able to take a hit and keep going, then I might have kept playing.

It's intesting, how one change could totally alter the gameplay like that, as well as how people might play the game.

I haven't really played the original, but I look forward to trying this version out.  The change probably will make the game more accessible to people.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on September 22, 2018, 12:28:13 PM
That's an interesting genre to see it as: action puzzle! One challenge to figure out the solution and one challenge to execute it.

I'm also intrigued by the change from one-hit-kill. Whether there is some kind of knock-back or not, the puzzles' possible solutions must be drastically changed in many cases.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: schnuth on September 22, 2018, 06:32:16 PM
I've bought the other Columbus Circle releases, but wasn't interested in this one until I heard about the new features. I have the original NES release but never finished it due to the difficulty curve.

So far none of these carts have blown up my Famicom, so let the good times roll! I'd love for someone to sell an adapter to regulate the voltage on these games though.

Also, Amazon Japan is my new best friend for Japanese imports. Cheaper and super  fast shipping when compared with Play-Asia. 


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on September 22, 2018, 10:02:07 PM
Oh then maybe you didn't see Krzy's post among all the flames (sorry about that everyone):

I have finished my project of 5V->3.3V level translator that allows safe use of Chinese multicarts :)

(https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820.jpg)


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: schnuth on September 23, 2018, 03:24:03 AM
Oh then maybe you didn't see Krzy's post among all the flames (sorry about that everyone):

I have finished my project of 5V->3.3V level translator that allows safe use of Chinese multicarts :)

(https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820.jpg)


That is awesome. I'd love to get my hands on an adapter like that for my peace of mind.



Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 23, 2018, 04:03:25 AM
Oh then maybe you didn't see Krzy's post among all the flames (sorry about that everyone):

I have finished my project of 5V->3.3V level translator that allows safe use of Chinese multicarts :)

(https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/3583536300_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/1899325100_1534865820.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820_thumb.jpg) (https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/9104942000_1534865820.jpg)

Flames implies flame war or something like that. Look P, just because I took the unpopular stance and made the effort to point out that there was possibly more to the voltage story than the company just skimping out, doesn't mean that my posts were flames.

This sort of remarks and nonsense just gets tiring after awhile.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: P on September 24, 2018, 03:17:48 AM
Whether the intent was to flame or not, I found some posts openly provoking (like when you keep calling my opinions "nonsense" or "senseless gripe" and so on), and some of my own posts was indeed meant to be flames which is why I'm apologizing. Sorry about that.

I just hope you don't have any hard feelings towards me just because we both have strong opposing opinions on this matter.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: fcgamer on September 24, 2018, 05:29:48 AM
Whether the intent was to flame or not, I found some posts openly provoking (like when you keep calling my opinions "nonsense" or "senseless gripe" and so on), and some of my own posts was indeed meant to be flames which is why I'm apologizing. Sorry about that.

I just hope you don't have any hard feelings towards me just because we both have strong opposing opinions on this matter.

Nah, I have no hard feelings towards you (or anyone else here for that matter), and on this matter I'd like to apologize to you and any others in this thread who have been offended by anything I wrote. 

As I mentioned in the PM, I actually am not so oppositely aligned as what people here might think, I just prefer to examine all angles before making a judgement.

Anyway, I'm going to let this matter go.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Eccles on October 27, 2018, 12:07:00 AM
Hey all,

Had anyone bought this?

For those who have, are there any voltage issues noted, or better yet, tested?

I'm thinking of getting it, as play-asia still has stock, but the reputation Columbus Circle have makes me hesitate.

Cheers


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Retrospectives on October 28, 2018, 06:33:24 PM
Yeah, I bought it on online. Tried (tried not mainly played) on original hardware and no problem. Tried on like 4-5 Famiclone, everything from UMC to later NOAC, to portable (not game axe though but that is UMC), and no issue whatsoever. Not saying is not issue, but I did not experience and while is possible to become issue later on if using on original hardware I do not un-recommend it since homebrew for FC is scarce and while you have the change, go ahead pick it up. I can recommend it. Is a really funny (yet frustrating) game.

Claryfication: I mostly play it inside my car on a portable famiclone I bought for cheap but can be charged with USB charger ahahahahah.


Title: Re: Battle Kid Famicom Release
Post by: Eccles on November 06, 2018, 05:24:22 PM
Thanks for that.

Go to know it runs on a variety of systems.

The English language option is a plus too.

I'll hopefully get a copy from play-asia before they sell out.

Cheers