Famicom World

(https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_2023_03/Save_The_Kuin_NES_Mockup_00.thumb.png.3cf367b77b2b91b6b82395f186367c5e.png)
NES game similar to Zelda :link: and the Seiken Densetsu (Mana) series. 

Features:

• 2 player simultaneous co-op
• ai partner
• multiple weapons
• save system
• much more

Trailer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HE-8P04JBeQ
 
Now on Kickstarter:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/savethekuin/save-the-kuin-a-brand-new-game-for-the-nes
 
Play the demo:
https://yukahugames.weebly.com/uploads/1/4/4/4/144441411/mdemo.nes
 
Please, load the demo to your nes / :redcart:  flashcart (or nes / :redcart:  emulator).

• Looking for general feedback
• Try playing coop

Can you beat the demo?  ;D

(https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_2023_03/003.gif.df10803c21c51aa15e823dbe4b93b801.gif) (https://content.invisioncic.com/r322239/monthly_2023_03/52feacaf549702ccef8f2b4c0ad682ce_original.gif.a604a6ef91d3741da923c62c7ee906d8.gif)

Quote from: undefined2 player simultaneous coop

I read this thinking you'd be playing as two chickens or something. ;D

I tried out the demo really quick, and, though I like the button-mapping system, I think it'd be wise to separate the "B" and "A" fields so that when the player selects finite items, it doesn't read as one string: "B1A5"

I'll play it some more later.

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on March 08, 2023, 05:11:00 pmI read this thinking you'd be playing as two chickens or something. ;D

;D Fixed.

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on March 08, 2023, 05:11:00 pmI tried out the demo really quick, and, though I like the button-mapping system, I think it'd be wise to separate the "B" and "A" fields so that when the player selects finite items, it doesn't read as one string: "B1A5"

I understand it doesn't look optimal, but at this stage I don't think we will be able to change it.

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on March 08, 2023, 05:11:00 pmI'll play it some more later.

Please do and give us some feedback.

Here are some hints in case you get stuck or such:

QuoteTo find the entrance to the cave you will need to cut a patch of grass on a specific location (north-west).

I don't think I would have ever found that by just playing. Maybe you should make it more obvious?

Anyway, made it to the boss and died. I probably would've done better if my shitty arrow key buttons weren't so unresponsive.

What I like:
-ally
-combination of Zelda & Final Fantasy graphics
-button mapping
-can go to inn, not pay and just save
-checkpoints
-combat system is responsive overall

What I don't like:
-the music is a little grating
-some doors don't give me any feedback, like "locked" or something
-story is a little basic
-standing on top of grass and can't cut it (have to move out of the way)

Not Sure:
-is the ally optional?
-how many of each item can I hold?
-it doesn't seem like there's a 'pause' button unless I'm holding down START

How much has been completed so far? About how much do you have to go?

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on March 08, 2023, 09:58:32 pm

QuoteTo find the entrance to the cave you will need to cut a patch of grass on a specific location (north-west).

I don't think I would have ever found that by just playing. Maybe you should make it more obvious?

We probably will.

Quote from: undefined-the music is a little grating

I see from your channel you're a musician. I would like you to be more specific. Any particular tune you didn't like? Or is the music overall lacking?

Quote from: undefined-story is a little basic

It gets better later, in my opinion. But overall it's a simple story.

Quote from: undefined-standing on top of grass and can't cut it (have to move out of the way)

Some have complained about this before and we find it odd. :) The cut the grass mechanic is inspired by Zelda ALTTP. I believe in that game it works the same way.

Quote from: undefined-is the ally optional?

It's optional only in the demo, not in the main game.

Quote from: undefined-how many of each item can I hold?

3 per item. This is briefly explained by one of the store owners.

Quote from: undefined-it doesn't seem like there's a 'pause' button unless I'm holding down START

All buttons are used, so we couldn't implement a 'pause'. Player 2 also uses the Start and Select buttons. So a potential Famicom version would be 1 player only, unless we find some workaround.

Quote from: undefinedHow much has been completed so far? About how much do you have to go?

The game is 100% completed. One can play form start to finish. However we are yet to add minor changes, like additional end game credits, spelling errors, etc.

You can read more about the dev history here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/savethekuin/save-the-kuin-a-brand-new-game-for-the-nes

Your avatar seems very familiar to me. What other forums do you frequent, if I may ask?

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 12:32:47 amAll buttons are used, so we couldn't implement a 'pause'. Player 2 also uses the Start and Select buttons. So a potential Famicom version would be 1 player only, unless we find some workaround.

Perhaps require an external controller (via the expansion port) for Famicom player two?

I played the demo and really enjoyed it. For me its a very professional and great game. I really enjoyed what I played of it so far. I played it on emulator with a joypad though, it took me 3 - 4 turns to beat the boss but got him in the end. Have to say its a great game and 10/10. If the boxed game is really for sale I'm going to make a purchase.

Quote from: ID415 on March 09, 2023, 08:00:58 amI played the demo and really enjoyed it. For me its a very professional and great game.

Thank you.

Quote from: undefinedit took me 3 - 4 turns to beat the boss but got him in the end.

That's how we intended it to be. We don't want high difficulty, because it become tiresome. But we can't have bosses being pushovers either. :P

Quote from: undefinedIf the boxed game is really for sale I'm going to make a purchase.

Thank you!
(https://s1.qwant.com/thumbr/0x0/3/f/0bc57b6d054722a53099e260cb5b952036093580ee7dfb2e4185fb020ae768/giphy.gif?u=https://media1.giphy.com/media/IdNb8s0tn30zXYweev/giphy.gif&q=0&b=1&p=0&a=1)

You can find it here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/savethekuin/save-the-kuin-a-brand-new-game-for-the-nes

Quote from: UglyJoe on March 09, 2023, 04:57:26 am

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 12:32:47 amAll buttons are used, so we couldn't implement a 'pause'. Player 2 also uses the Start and Select buttons. So a potential Famicom version would be 1 player only, unless we find some workaround.

Perhaps require an external controller (via the expansion port) for Famicom player two?

Does such a thing exists? A second controller through the expansion port? If so, how common is it?
Can you provide more info about this?

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 08:05:51 pmDoes such a thing exists? A second controller through the expansion port? If so, how common is it?
Can you provide more info about this?

Yeah, they are pretty common.  Since the controllers on the Famicom are hard-wired, any kind of turbo controllers and such had to plug in via the expansion port.

From a software perspective, it's not really a "player two" controller; it's another input you can poll via $4016/$4017.  What your game does with that input is up to your code.

Quote from: UglyJoe on March 10, 2023, 08:33:09 pmFrom a software perspective, it's not really a "player two" controller; it's another input you can poll via $4016/$4017.  What your game does with that input is up to your code.

I feel silly.  :-[  I didn't know about this. Thanks for letting me know.

EDIT: Got it working.
So now the second character can be controlled by Controller 2, 'Controller 3' or 'Controller 4'.
Do you think this is a good setup?

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 07:01:55 pmYou can find it here:
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/savethekuin/save-the-kuin-a-brand-new-game-for-the-nes (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/savethekuin/save-the-kuin-a-brand-new-game-for-the-nes)

Money pledged, good luck with the project. I hope it does well.

Quote from: ID415 on March 11, 2023, 03:03:33 amMoney pledged, good luck with the project. I hope it does well.

Thank you. Hope you enjoy the game.
This being our first game, every backer means a lot.

Quote from: olddb on March 11, 2023, 06:14:48 am

Quote from: ID415 on March 11, 2023, 03:03:33 amMoney pledged, good luck with the project. I hope it does well.

Thank you. Hope you enjoy the game.
This being our first game, every backer means a lot.

Hopefully first amongst many ;)

Quote from: olddb on March 11, 2023, 01:55:54 amSo now the second character can be controlled by Controller 2, 'Controller 3' or 'Controller 4'.
Do you think this is a good setup?

What most games do is to use controller 3 as an alternative to controller 1 and controller 4 as an alternative to controller 2. This way you can use any external controller you want instead of the hardwired ones, and player 2 can get START and SELECT.
Tokumaru explains how most games merges con 1&3 and 2&4 in a very simple way here (https://forums.nesdev.org/viewtopic.php?p=279513#p279513).

The only downside is that you need a controller with a daisy-chaining port (like the ASCII Stick Turbo has) or some other sort of simple adapter (https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Four_player_adapters#%22Simple%22_Famicom_adapters) like the JoyPair or Twin Adapter (not the Hori 4 Players Adapter though as it's basically the Famicom version of the Four Score) in order to plug in a controller 4.

I guess you could give the player the option to either make controller 3 work as controller 2 like you do now, or let them work like explained above so that both players can use external controllers if they want.

Quote from: P on March 12, 2023, 07:56:27 amThe only downside is that you need a controller with a daisy-chaining port (like the ASCII Stick Turbo has) or some other sort of simple adapter (https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Four_player_adapters#"Simple"_Famicom_adapters) like the JoyPair or Twin Adapter (not the Hori 4 Players Adapter though as it's basically the Famicom version of the Four Score) in order to plug in a controller 4.

This is a big downside for me, personally, as those adapters are not especially easy to come by.

Even though the 1/3 2/4 setup is the most common, it is incredibly uncommon to require select/start buttons for player two in Famicom games (I'd hazard that zero official games required this, but could be wrong).  So I think the 1 2/3/4 setup makes more sense here, as that would be the way to enable the most gamers to play the game in two-player mode.

I will admit that it has its own downside of not letting a single-player use their favorite external controller when playing the game by themselves, though.

Quote from: P on March 12, 2023, 07:56:27 amWhat most games do is to use controller 3 as an alternative to controller 1 and controller 4 as an alternative to controller 2. This way you can use any external controller you want instead of the hardwired ones, and player 2 can get START and SELECT.

I realize my original code already supports this setup.

Quote from: P on March 12, 2023, 07:56:27 amThe only downside is that you need a controller with a daisy-chaining port (like the ASCII Stick Turbo has) or some other sort of simple adapter (https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/Four_player_adapters#%22Simple%22_Famicom_adapters) like the JoyPair or Twin Adapter (not the Hori 4 Players Adapter though as it's basically the Famicom version of the Four Score) in order to plug in a controller 4.

I want to go with the simplest and most user friendly solution. I image not many own the four player adapter, like you said.

Quote from: P on March 12, 2023, 07:56:27 amI guess you could give the player the option to either make controller 3 work as controller 2 like you do now, or let them work like explained above so that both players can use external controllers if they want.

Why would both players need to use external controllers, thought? Do the attached ones often run faulty?

Thanks for the reply.

EDIT:

Quote from: UglyJoe on March 12, 2023, 10:06:39 amThis is a big downside for me, personally, as those adapters are not especially easy to come by.

Even though the 1/3 2/4 setup is the most common, it is incredibly uncommon to require select/start buttons for player two in Famicom games (I'd hazard that zero official games required this, but could be wrong).  So I think the 1 2/3/4 setup makes more sense here, as that would be the way to enable the most gamers to play the game in two-player mode.

I will admit that it has its own downside of not letting a single-player use their favorite external controller when playing the game by themselves, though.

I guess the optimal solution would be to give the player a choice. But how to to this elegantly?

I think the most straight-forward solution is to include an options menu where the player can select which mode they need.

Reasons to use external controllers includes being able to use your favorite controller, an arcade stick, longer cord etc.

Although those adapters are very hard to find, they are also very simple to build. Here (https://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=3583.msg55602#msg55602) is one that can be built using a Neo-Geo controller extension cable and two NES controller extension cables and allows using normal NES controllers as external controllers. They can also be replaced for SNES controller extension cables to support SNES controllers (https://www.nesdev.org/wiki/SNES_controller) (Virtual Boy controller also possible).

Yeah the only Famicom game that we discovered to require START and SELECT for controller 2/4 is Bokosuka Wars (https://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=2355.msg150368#msg150368), and it was only to do a cheat code that doesn't even seem to be possible.
Some NES games also requires it (Battletoads and R.C. Pro Am 2 for 2-player modes).

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 12:32:47 amAny particular tune you didn't like? Or is the music overall lacking?

It's not any particular tune, but the engine itself plays like an early pre-1986 NES/FC game where notes being held sound loud without any fade/tremolo. I can understand if that's the aesthetic you're going for.

Quote from: olddb on March 09, 2023, 12:32:47 amSome have complained about this before and we find it odd. :) The cut the grass mechanic is inspired by Zelda ALTTP. I believe in that game it works the same way.

Fair enough. It's the same situation with the sound. If you want to mimic the style of a 30-year old game's mechanic, it's your choice, but even the GBA version improved on this: https://youtu.be/6lLv3VTB7qA?t=474

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on March 13, 2023, 10:19:16 pmIt's not any particular tune, but the engine itself plays like an early pre-1986 NES/FC game where notes being held sound loud without any fade/tremolo. I can understand if that's the aesthetic you're going for.

The sound engine went through various iterations and became more complex in time. Some of the simple tunes were designed for the first version. For example, the first town music. Only a minority of the game's music suffers from this.

Thanks for the honest feedback.

QuoteFair enough. It's the same situation with the sound. If you want to mimic the style of a 30-year old game's mechanic, it's your choice, but even the GBA version improved on this: https://youtu.be/6lLv3VTB7qA?t=474

Thanks for the link; wasn't aware of this.