Famicom World

Family Computer => Famicom / Disk System => Topic started by: skyrunner14 on July 18, 2010, 09:45:26 PM



Title: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: skyrunner14 on July 18, 2010, 09:45:26 PM
I was reading this article (http://famicomworld.com/system/other/data-recorder/), and I became curious of two things:

1) How many Famicom games are compatible with the Data Recorder (or any old tape recorder, according to the article)?

2) What kind of wire would you need to connect a recorder and the Famicom?

Well, I looked on the list topic and didn't see anything like this, so I figured why not introduce it?

>Wrecking Crew
>Castle Excellent
>Excitebike
>Loderunner -- unconfirmed
>Family Basic
>Mach Rider


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on July 18, 2010, 09:59:04 PM
As far as I know, you need the Family Basic keyboard to do it, since it has the line-out/line-in jacks for you to connect the tape recorder.  I'm not aware of any other attachments that let you do it.

Are you sure that Castle Excellent supports it?  It's usually only games that have an "edit" mode.

Other games that support it:

Excitebike
Loderunner -- I swear I read this supported it somewhere, but I can't figure out how.
Family Basic
Mach Rider


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: skyrunner14 on July 18, 2010, 10:10:55 PM
Well, In the Japanese version, pressing A on the second controller brings you to a "SUB COMMAND" menu that allows your to reset a room's status, restart the game entirely and such, but intrestingly enough there is a SAVE and LOAD function. Trying the SAVE feature apparently did nothing, and trying to LOAD after that froze the game (apparently trying to load data from a recorder that isn't even plugged up, I suppose). You can also access the SUB COMMAND menu in the English version of the game, Castlequest, but as I remember there no SAVE or LOAD options there.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: JC on July 18, 2010, 10:26:51 PM
Awesome! I added this to the stickied "Lists" thread: http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=2350.0


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: RR1980 on July 21, 2010, 02:11:37 AM
the hori game repeater also has a line in/line out jack for the tape/data recorder in order to record the saved footage.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: Epic_Lotus on July 21, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
Is there a list of the cassettes tapes that could be used with Family Basic?


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: Xious on July 24, 2010, 05:36:35 PM
An excellent question. Did anybody ever release commercial programmes on tape for Family BASIC? I think there were a couple BASIC offerings, but they may only have been in book form.

They call cartridges 'cassettes' in Nippon and throughout Asiam so it gets a bit tedious to explain what I'm seeking and although I've seen books with BASIC programmes for the FC before, never once have I seen a commercial data tape, and I've asked several firms and individuals to look for them over the years.

It does strike me as interesting that there is no Famicom printer either. :)

-Xious


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on July 24, 2010, 07:49:41 PM
I know there were books published with sample programs for Family Basic (I have one, myself).  I also know that there are other books that came with cassette tapes that had programs/backgrounds on them.  I don't know if any of them are "official" or not, though (via Hudson or whoever).


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: Epic_Lotus on July 24, 2010, 10:23:05 PM
Yes, I also know for a fact that there were several book/tape combos.  I almost bid on a lot of them, but it also came with a bunch of stuff I didn't need and would probably be hard to resell (do I really need another keyboard and Basic cart?).



Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: P on July 21, 2013, 10:55:58 AM
I can confirm that saving and loading your own edited stages in Lode Runner works.

In edit mode press SELECT to go to the menu. The screen will be black with just the text "MENU" on screen. Press select again to browse to the other options. Pressing start chooses the current option. MENU goes back to the title screen, SAVE is for saving to tape and LOAD is for loading from tape obviously. This works in the US version as well.

The keyboard (or other compatible device) must be connected or the menu won't appear when pressing SELECT.
I tried this in an emulator as well but I couldn't get it to work even though the keyboard is selected as connected.


According to Japanese Wikipedia, Nuts & Milk can also save with a tape recorder, but I can't figure out how to do it, and I don't have the manual for that game. This is probably a false rumour. When looking into the ROM no such routine could be found.


On a side note, you might not need a Family Basic Keyboard to save in all these games (except for the Family Basic series of course). There's the S.D. Station that supposedly can be used to plug in earphones to the Famicom but can also be used instead of the keyboard to save to tapes. The Ascii Stick II Turbo also has the line-in and -out jacks for this purpose http://www.ne.jp/asahi/oroti/famicom/cont15.html. I'm not sure the Hori Game Repeater also can be used for this purpose or if it's just to save the recorded button presses.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: P on August 24, 2015, 02:42:28 PM
Arkanoid II is now confirmed to save edited levels to tape. I had trouble loading my level though, and it turned out scrambled.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: Great Hierophant on June 02, 2016, 02:40:58 AM
I can confirm that saving and loading your own edited stages in Lode Runner works.

In edit mode press SELECT to go to the menu. The screen will be black with just the text "MENU" on screen. Press select again to browse to the other options. Pressing start chooses the current option. MENU goes back to the title screen, SAVE is for saving to tape and LOAD is for loading from tape obviously. This works in the US version as well.

The keyboard (or other compatible device) must be connected or the menu won't appear when pressing SELECT.
I tried this in an emulator as well but I couldn't get it to work even though the keyboard is selected as connected.


According to Japanese Wikipedia, Nuts & Milk can also save with a tape recorder, but I can't figure out how to do it, and I don't have the manual for that game. This is probably a false rumour. When looking into the ROM no such routine could be found.


On a side note, you might not need a Family Basic Keyboard to save in all these games (except for the Family Basic series of course). There's the S.D. Station that supposedly can be used to plug in earphones to the Famicom but can also be used instead of the keyboard to save to tapes. The Ascii Stick II Turbo also has the line-in and -out jacks for this purpose http://www.ne.jp/asahi/oroti/famicom/cont15.html. I'm not sure the Hori Game Repeater also can be used for this purpose or if it's just to save the recorded button presses.

The auction for this book and accompanying compact cassette would support the idea that both Lode Runner and Nuts & Milk support the Data Recorder : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301174910334?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on June 02, 2016, 12:22:16 PM
I have that book and cassette.  I'm pretty sure the cassette is just Family Basic stuff.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: P on June 03, 2016, 03:51:13 PM
Does the book have some kind of guide for Lode Runner, Nuts & Milk and 4-nin Uchi no Mahjong? It looks like it on the pictures.

From what I can tell of the picture of the cassette tape, it only contains the 10 Family BASIC programs that UglyJoe already uploaded (Kani Tori Geemu etc). Even though the Runner is the one presenting the cassette.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on June 03, 2016, 04:28:48 PM
I'll take a look at the book tonight, if I remember.  I think it just has a guide for the other games.

Post Merge: June 04, 2016, 03:22:19 AM
The book has tips and tricks, some custom level design maps, a short manga, and a guide to using the level editor for both Lode Runner and Nuts & Milk.  The 4-nin Uchi no Mahjong is just tips and tricks and a short manga.  The Family Basic portion takes up the majority of the book (more than half).  Here's the table of contents:

(http://i.imgur.com/mH3WCGtl.jpg) (http://i.imgur.com/mH3WCGt.jpg)

The cassette is just the Family Basic programs.  I found the full recordings I made of the cassette, in case you want to hear them:

Side A (http://famicomworld.com/Personal/uglyjoe/tape1_stereo.mp3)
Side B (http://famicomworld.com/Personal/uglyjoe/tape2_stereo.mp3)

It's a woman speaking in Japanese explaining what is about to be loaded, then it's a bunch of noise as the data sections get played.  Turn down your speakers / headphones before playing.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: P on June 04, 2016, 11:07:06 AM
Yeah it seems so. It's just how-to-play, walkthrough for Lode Runner and Nuts & Milk, and a yaku guide for 4-nin Uchi Mahjong.

Side B on that tape seems to have lots of explanations of how to use it with Family BASIC besides tape data.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on June 04, 2016, 02:37:31 PM
Oh hey, so it does.  It was late and I didn't listen to them very closely.  It's possible that I have Side A and Side B mixed up.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: aitsu124 on September 04, 2016, 11:30:01 PM
What save/program data is on the tape?


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on September 04, 2016, 11:42:34 PM
What save/program data is on the tape?

It has the programs and backgrounds from the book.  I wrote them all up here: http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=8234.0 (http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=8234.0)


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: aitsu124 on September 20, 2016, 10:12:17 PM
I think the case for Nuts & Milk supporting it should be reopened, due to some interesting/not researched enough in my opinion things:

1. Nuts & Milk is unable to use the expansion port as a P1 controller. Few games had this, and while not all supported games possessed this limitation, some did and it just served as another reason.

2. While I'm not an expert on the coding of these things by any means, couldn't another expansion port route be used to support it besides the one that's known to not?

3. It was made by Hudson. Considering they played a large part in developing the Family Basic, and the fact that it was likely released during the FB's development, it seems that they would've included this.

3 1/2. Also take into consideration that in Lode Runner, another of Hudson's games, a supported device must be plugged in for the options to come up. N&M could very well have the same thing going for it.

Since I do own a keyboard and Data Recorder, I'll probably pick up a copy sometime and try some things, but there are likely more efficient ways to go about this and I'm not sure when I'd be getting it. Something to look into for sure.


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: UglyJoe on September 21, 2016, 01:51:35 AM
3 1/2. Also take into consideration that in Lode Runner, another of Hudson's games, a supported device must be plugged in for the options to come up. N&M could very well have the same thing going for it.

There's no such menu.  At least, there is no data in the ROM that would display the words LOAD or SAVE or anything like that.

There's unused / debug code in the game, but none of it points toward being able to use the data recorder: https://tcrf.net/Nuts_%26_Milk (https://tcrf.net/Nuts_%26_Milk)


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: aitsu124 on September 21, 2016, 12:36:13 PM
What about that part that mentions saving to ram? Would that be possible with some non-tape device?


Title: Re: List of Famicom games that save with a Tape/Data Recorder
Post by: P on September 21, 2016, 08:57:00 PM
Maybe on a flashcart if you somehow make the $8000-$FFFF area writable. Then you'd need a battery or non-volatile memory to keep the levels after power off.