So I recently had a birthday an have been using my birthday money to upgrade my HDTV in my room into an RGB gaming device. Since the NTSC cube does not support RGB out or componant (for a reasonable price, the official cable is to expensive) I was wondering if it would be practical to import a PAL gamecube. I just had a few questions I couldn't find the answer to.
1. I know NTSC resolutions aren't the same as PAL, but if I use a freeloader to launch an NTSC games in a PAL system will the signal that gets pushed through the cable be NTSC?
2. Will my NTSC Gameboy player and memory cards work?
3. Will an NTSC power brick work on it or will I need a PAL brick and a stepdown converter?
1. I don't think so. Your TV might have to support PAL. Edit: Oops what am I saying! If you play an NTSC game the signal would also be NTSC. Edit2: OK that's probably wrong. I shouldn't talk about things I don't fully understand lol. The PAL GameCube might not output NTSC (but I can't test it).
2. I'm pretty sure all hardware is region free (but I can't swear on it) and of course Gameboy Advance games are region free too so no problem there. However the Gameboy Player Boot Disc is region coded so you would have to use a freeloader or something.
Some games wants you to reformat the memory card if it finds Japanese save files on the card when you use an English language game or vice versa but there shouldn't be any problem with US and Euro save files coexisting AFIK and the memory card itself is region free.
3. Just to be safe check with your GameCube AC Adapter. My PAL one outputs 12V DC 3.25A + --(=|-- - (by this I mean that the plus is on the rounded side and minus on the straight side).
Europe use 220-230V so you would need a step-up converter, not a step-down if you wanted to use the included AC Adapter.
Great. I think I'll start looking into importing one. A freeloader shouldn't be hard to come by either.
It might be a good idea to check on freeloader compatibility first. I think they released updated revisions as new games came out so you may want one that can play your games.
I was thinkingnof getting a datel action replay.
My recommendation would be a XenoGC. Easy to install, straightforward to use, compatible with everything I've thrown at it.
Quote from: P on September 29, 2012, 01:02:30 pm
If you play an NTSC game the signal would also be NTSC.
When I play PAL games on my DOL-001 NTSC GameCube (without selecting 60Hz mode) it doesn't output a proper PAL signal so I get no color even if the TV supports PAL. It seems that it actually outputs PAL-M at 50Hz which is completely insane on so many levels (I'm not 100% sure but it looks like that's the case). Does the PAL GameCube really output a proper NTSC signal for US/JP games or is it just 4.43 PAL at 60Hz?
I'd prefer a disk based freeloader, not something I have to mod.
I have no idea about the resolution though... anyone with a Pal gamecube availible to test?
According to this page:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/915781-gamecube/faqs/34663 (http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/915781-gamecube/faqs/34663)
QuoteHOW TO USE: Hold down 'B' while starting the GameCube. If the game supports
60Hz, it will ask if you want to use it. Choose 'Yes'.
But I think this is for PAL-games that support 60Hz, not NTSC-games. I suppose NTSC-games will automatically set the correct framerate...
Further:
QuoteIf you have a PAL GameCube, it is possible to use NTSC's picture system, with
reduced resolution, but higher frame rate. This mode, commonly called PAL60,
is essentially the same as NTSC but with PAL's improved colour system.
Remember, however, that S-Video, RGB SCART and component do NOT use PAL or
NTSC's colour systems. So, why would you want to use PAL60? In the early days
of video gaming, games made for 60Hz were usually poorly converted to 50Hz for
Europe. They were left with large borders, an incorrect aspect ratio, and
normally slower gameplay than their 60Hz counterparts. Most PAL GameCube games
are optimised for 50Hz though so they run at the correct speed and aspect ratio
(and indeed with higher resolution than their NTSC counterparts). So, the days
of using 60Hz mode to play games at their intended speed and aspect ratio are
basically gone. However, there can be benefits to having an increased frame
rate (at the cost of resolution), particularly in fast-paced games like racing
games. Smoother motion should be seen in games like this (and the reduction in
resolution won't be noticable except on larger TVs).
I interpret this as the Gamecube is capable of outputting PAL60, which is NTSC-resolution and framerate, but the color encoding is of the PAL-standard. If I understand you correctly, you'll be connecting your console via a RGB-cable and the color encoding will thus be irrelevant (RGB is RGB after all). You should therefore be able to play NTSC-games at the proper resolution and framerate. This is actually what I'm planning on doing with my console. I have several NTSC-games, but I haven't modded my console yet so I can't tell for sure.
Yes it can output PAL60. Most first party games gives you the option to choose between PAL50 or PAL60 the first time you boot them and some games like Oot Master Quest even requires PAL60. But I think using RGB still wouldn't output a proper NTSC signal, RGB is not HD.
Quote from: 133MHz on September 29, 2012, 07:44:28 pm
Does the PAL GameCube really output a proper NTSC signal for US/JP games or is it just 4.43 PAL at 60Hz?
Probably just 4.43 PAL60.
Not that it's relevant to this, but RGB can be used to send an HD-signal - just look at VGA. RGB also has no color encoding; each color (Red, Green and Blue) is sent on a separate line, thus its name - no need to encode anything. As long as the resolution and framerate is that of NTSC, the games would be displayed and run properly. The only thing I haven't been able to figure out yet is if NTSC-games change the resolution and framerate when they're running on a PAL-console, or if they assume that the OS have already set up the display properly. If it's the latter, then one must find a way to change to resolution and framerate before booting the game for it to run properly. I believe Freeloader allows you to do this.
That's not what I meant but I now realised that I might be wrong. NTSC, PAL etc might not matter as you said. OK I should quit now. I edited my first post so it won't have too much false info.
Another import problem however is mojibake (garbage characters that shows up when the wrong font encoding is used). I guess it has to do with what BIOS the gamecube has? Testing Japanese games sometimes shows mojibake on some text, but not all text.
Hmm... Are you sure that's a problem with Gamecube consoles? By simply installing a switch one can play Japanese games on an American console and vice versa, but the BIOS is still the same. I've never heard of problems with mojibake on Gamecubes, bu then again I've never tried it myself.... ???
I don't really know. I've only seen it when we tested Japanese games on a Wii with freeloader so I assumed the game used a font in the BIOS. It was not all text, mostly only system messages and such (when saving for example) so I thought it used it's own font for other in-game text.
The reason US/EU game saves doesn't like to coexist on the same memory card is because the font encoding for file names is set when it's formatted. Some games doesn't warn you though.
I can't find much info on the internet about this problem.
Interesting... Doesn't sound too bad if it's only system messages, though.
I've heard one has to use different memory cards for US and Japanese games even with the switch installed, or it will erase the memory card with the "foreign" contents. Sounds like an encoding issue....
I get mojibake with Japanese games on my NTSC-U GameCube. I haven't done the BIOS mod but I suppose that would fix it. Since the only Japanese game I play on it is Nintendo Puzzle Collection, it doesn't really bother me enough to install the BIOS switch. :P
Interesting! Thanks for the info!
One last question... is this something even worth doing? How noticeable is the improvement of Gamecube RGB over backwards compatible Wii component?
Quote from: untinip on September 30, 2012, 11:02:05 am
Interesting... Doesn't sound too bad if it's only system messages, though.
I've heard one has to use different memory cards for US and Japanese games even with the switch installed, or it will erase the memory card with the "foreign" contents. Sounds like an encoding issue....
But it wasn't just system messages. Lots of menus had mojibake too! Really annoying! It's very random, in some games the system messages are identical but in proper Japanese but has mojibake elsewhere.
Yeah I heard that it could be bad if you keep Japanese and non-Japanese save files on the same card but nothing bad happened for me. Some games however won't even let you save on a card with a foreign encoding and instead will prompt you to format the card (you can say no though).
Quote from: 133MHz on September 30, 2012, 11:46:31 am
I haven't done the BIOS mod but I suppose that would fix it.
What is this mod? Maybe the Japanese BIOS is included in the US Gamecube and can be accessed with this mod? In that case I guess it wouldn't work on a PAL Gamecube.
US and Japan received the same Gamecube. Their BIOS sets mode by checking a board jumper. It doesn't AFAIK work for switching either into PAL, or from PAL.
Exceptionally simple to know what mode your Gamecube is: Boot without disc inserted. If the Japanese BIOS, its main menu language will display in Japanese.
Mojibake and/or saving issues are game-specific. Program code of some Japanese games wasn't designed to behave well under a Western BIOS.
See import loaders such as modchips or Freeloader break lockout checks. Not change the console. A crucial distinction.
To add further confusion, memory card format is determined by BIOS mode. Rather than a game's region code.
If I understand correct...
Western BIOS cannot read/write/create Japanese memory cards or their files
Japanese BIOS cannot read/write/create Western memory cards or their files
In other words, for example, playing Japanese games with a Western BIOS would create saves of Western format. Which a Japanese BIOS can't even use in normal circumstances! (unless third party software allows moving saves between different format cards)
It's also possible for games to intentionally check the BIOS mode. US release Star Fox Adventures supports changing text language to Japanese.
As I thought. The PAL version probably has a different BIOS as you say. One can switch between a number of European languages in the menu.
Now I wonder if it's possible to access the Japanese GC BIOS on a US Wii in order to get around the mojibake problem. But the GameCube part of the Wii is updated via the Nintendo Update Server and also soft patches GC games when running them so I guess it's not the same as a real Gamecube.
Now I don't know about a Gamecube but the Wii at least creates and loads both Japanese and non-Japanese save files just fine. Some games could coexist as I said and some games wants you to format the memory card before it let's you save if it has a foreign file system. And after formating it lets you save and load just fine. I would however recommend people to keep their Japanese data on a separate memory card from other data just to be safe.
133MHz are you saving Nintendo Puzzle Collection data on the same memory card as your other games? If so have you experienced any data corruption or anything strange?
I'm not, I know about the incompatibility so when the game asks me about formatting the memory card I say no. Since it's just a bunch of puzzle games, I don't really need the save function. ;D
I see. But Nintendo Puzzle Collection is one of those games that let's you save without asking if you want to format the card. It worked for us anyway.
Nintendo Puzzle Collection behaves like the majority of games. No prompt to format, saves/loads normally without touching other data.
The reverse to everything applies as well. If one owns a Japanese console and saves non-Japanese games, their files will only be accessible using the Japanese BIOS.
Yet for me I could access both Japanese and non-Japanese data on the same memory card without messing with anything. It was on a Wii though.
Quote from: P on October 01, 2012, 12:09:24 pm
Yet for me I could access both Japanese and non-Japanese data on the same memory card without messing with anything. It was on a Wii though.
That's because Gamecube memory card format is determined by console region. Not game region.
If created in non-Japanese mode, Gamecube apparent "Japanese" data isn't really Japanese, and won't be usable on a Japanese system.
This topic has gone way off topic lol.
I guess. Anyway PAL Gamecube is different. Most useful info has been covered here already.
RGB instead of svideo.
PAL composite color.
Changed BIOS languages.
Largely this topic is a question whether RGB or mojibake is more important to you.
Would a pal cube's rgb be significantly better then an ntsc wii's component? I wouldn't be playing japanese games on either.
Haha sorry for burying your posts in this discussion ulera! It was just so interesting.
Since you are not going to play Japanese games I guess memory card file system and mojibake will not be a problem. It's too bad but I don't have a RGB cable so I can't answer your question but for me it would probably not be worth the trouble just for RGB. Don't kill me now but I don't notice much different between RGB and composite or HD LED TV and an old black and white CRT or whatever. If I play on a LCD a lot and then switch to CRT I will be in shock first but after like 5 minutes I get used to the picture and won't think about it at all. It's like watching a black and white movie for the first time in a while. After a few minutes you won't even think about it being in black and white.
I guess most people are more picky than me though. Try checking youtube for comparison videos maybe.
Quote from: Lum on October 01, 2012, 02:21:02 pm
Quote from: P on October 01, 2012, 12:09:24 pm
Yet for me I could access both Japanese and non-Japanese data on the same memory card without messing with anything. It was on a Wii though.
That's because Gamecube memory card format is determined by console region. Not game region.
If created in non-Japanese mode, Gamecube apparent "Japanese" data isn't really Japanese, and won't be usable on a Japanese system.
Oh I finally understand what you mean! Basically you can load both Japanese and non-Japanese data from the same memory card but only in the mode the Gamecube was in when the memory card was formatted. It doesn't matter if you format it using a Japanese game if the BIOS is in US mode, it will still have western formating and only work in US BIOS mode.
Quote from: ulera on October 01, 2012, 04:10:41 pm
Would a pal cube's rgb be significantly better then an ntsc wii's component? I wouldn't be playing japanese games on either.
no. component allows 480p in supported games.
So from what I understand the Wii would be sharper picture but slightly incorrect color. Seems like a good tradeoff.
Wii is also more open to softmod. Probably a way to load cube games into japan mode if/when needed.
Here's a few photos I took to compare the picture quality when Super Mario Sunshine (PAL) runs in 50/60Hz mode on a PAL Gamecube with RGB-output and a PAL Wii with component-output (never mind the aspect ratio, that's just a setting on my TV):
Gamecube, 50Hz:
http://i.imgur.com/TqkP0.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/TqkP0.jpg)
Gamecube, 60Hz:
http://i.imgur.com/xXh3m.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/xXh3m.jpg)
Wii, 50Hz:
http://i.imgur.com/GmxwV.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/GmxwV.jpg)
Wii, 60Hz:
http://i.imgur.com/qRd37.jpg (http://i.imgur.com/qRd37.jpg)
As you can see the picture is great when the game runs at 50Hz on a Gamecube, and excellent when it runs on a Wii (in any mode), however it would appear that a PAL Gamecube doesn't output RGB-video when running at 60Hz! You can clearly see dot-crawl and other composite video-artifacts. This was an unexpected and unwelcome surprise... It would therefore seem that the way to get the best possible picture when running games at 60Hz would be to play them on a Wii.
Hmm could be an RGB switching voltage problem.
Another possibility is trying a sync cleaner, to remove the composite video information so the TV doesn't attempt to process it. (AV jack of PAL Gamecube has no raw sync output)
Interesting! I'll try a sync cleaner and see if that helps...