"Ultimate mods" on a per-console basis?

Started by topshelfgamer, July 15, 2012, 03:12:15 am

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topshelfgamer

Does anyone have a canononical list of ultimate versions of hacked/modded consoles, or forums where such discussions are routinely had to figure out where they are, or do they tend to be scattered all over for the most part?

If my name doesnt make it obvious, topshelfgamer, I have a philosophy of wanting a "top shelf experience", ie like liquor, you keep your best stuff on the top.  :)  My philosophy when I play games is to want the absolute maximum possible quality which could be had for playing a given game on a given system to make it as immersive as possible.  Sometimes that means doing it as the director intended (there are games that intended to/used the blurring effects or artifacts of the NTSC signal consciously for instance, hence the reason for "TV simulation" modes now in some atari 2600 emulators primarily) and sometimes it means doing things that maybe weren't consciously chosen, but probably would have been used if they had the option/are in line with what was intended as the experience.  (some of the HQ3x/Eagle type enhancement modes in emulators which increase the resolution, for many games it works, like those who were created under a scarcity of resolution and would have benefitted from more.  Doom in high resolution modern renderers for instance, or longer draw distance.  For other games it's counterproductive, because what looks good at 320x200 for instance the "big eyes no mouth" japanese RPG type sprites can look bad at higher resolutions.)  But having the option to play either way is my goal, my view is options are ALWAYS good.  This is perfectly fine with modifying the consoles in "beyond stock" ways,

So that has started me on a road of obsessive research now, trying to find the absolute best possible experiences for each console and computer out there.  For a given game title it might be tracking down "which console did it best".  Or it might be tracking down an obscure controller supported (like the P5 Gloves supported in Hitman 2), or even an obscure display device. (like the Head Mounted Displays which exist for the PS2 in Japan for a half dozen games, no I don't have one, it's just on the list of "stuff i'd like to find")  And for stuff on a given console it might involve mods to the console to make it even better when possible.

So here i'm sharing a bit of rambling commentary on the best I know of for various systems, I invite anyone to either add new knowledge on that I wasn't aware of, other cool things that could be added or supported somehow to make a better experience even if only for as little as one game that used something in some special way.


For the NES/Famicom, obviously here discussed there's this Playchoice-10 PPU modification to get true RGB out, which is pretty radical, but cool.  Adapters to play NES games on the Famicom.  The use of the disk system exclusive games for the extra sound channel, or japanese only cartridges for games where they had a higher quality MMU.

For the Sega Master System there is the installation of the FM sound board which was used on the Sega Mark 3 games in japan, giving alot of US games the higher quality near Genesis quality FM sound that existed in the japanese versions.

For the Sega Genesis i've seen mods to select US or japanese language, 50hz or 60hz refresh, and 7mhz/10mhz overclocked.  The latter showing off in cases like when Sonic hits an enemy and explodes rings all over normally the game slows down - this is seen to be unintentional because when overclocked it stays at 60fps without slowing down.

For the N64 i've seen a hacked version of some emulator with an overclocked cpu for playing Perfect Dark at a smoother framerate.  Separately (different emu I think) there are ways to play in HD resolutions and true widescreen/rendering a wider view than the 4:3 system originally was designed for.  There are also texture pack enhancements for N64 games.

The Dreamcast emulators now have "extended geometry" modes, which render a true wider screen, wider than the 4:3 screen showing you more than you can see, instead of simply limiting down the screen or stretching it to fit a 16:9 screen.  They also render to high resolution HD displays natively and give digital out since it's from the computer.

The Playstation 1 and 2 emulators can render to higher resolutions natively than were originally supported, although the results vary in success depending what game you try it on.  Also one unique oddity on the Playstation 2 was Gran Turismo 4 apparently supporting triplehead mode with 3 monitors, if you had 3 PS2's and 3 network cards, and I assume 3 copies of the game.  The Playstation 2 had a head mounted display in japan for a couple of flight simulator games as well, pretty sure that isn't emulated.

The Gamecube/Wii emulator Dolphin can render to HD resolutions looking better than the best console output ever can.

There used to be overclocked versions of the Xbox 1 (Friendtech-X I think) where for a number of games, the 2x cpu speed boost enabled smoother gameplay.  Other games glitched so it could be shut off as well.  I would assume an SSD replacing the hard drive would give far better performance, load times, and smoothness as well improving play for nearly all games.  (in the same way some purists pan "visual enhancement" modes, I think wrongly, do you know any game where the director INTENDED long load times watching a bar slowly fill up from left to right?  Unless there was some cutscene playing at the same time, a minigame played during, or some demo intro during loading, like some 8 bit computer games actually did while games loaded from disk/see Rescue on Fractalus for Atari 800 for an example, the answer would most of the time be "no".  Unless it was consciously chosen for artistic merit, many enhancements actually are valid IMHO and if switchable there's no down side.)

On the PC there were supported sound cardsin the 90's (Aureal Vortex stuff in particular superior to any modern X Fi, at least for the games in question if playing from that era), different video cards with display modes not properly emulated or supported on modern systems, and controllers at varying times. 

Now there are plenty of systems not listed here.  :)  And there may be improvements to already listed systems which I don't yet know about.  If you know of any feel free to add something.

GohanX

July 15, 2012, 10:16:15 am #1 Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 11:27:53 am by GohanX
I strive for "perfect" versions of each console, sometimes trying several revisions of the same consoles to find the best experience. I don't dabble in emulation much, as something is generally off, even if it looks better. Here's a quick rundown:

NES: Refurbished toaster with security chip disabled and extra sound mod added. RGB mod would be preferable, but not at the sacrifice of a Playchoice board. Also, play with a NES 2 dogbone, it's an awesome controller!

Genesis: Unmolested X'eye using RGB out and a Sega 6 button controller is awesome. Clean video, good sound, and only 1 AC adapter.

SNES: RGB modded SNES mini is the best. It has a better video chip than the first model, but you have to mod it to use RGB. Also, easily region modded for Japanese games.

Turbografx/PC Engine: a PCE Duo R/RX with an Arcade Card, RGB and region mods, and a recapping is awesome, and should last forever. That being said, I actually game with a modded TG16/CD unit myself, it's full of awesome.

Neo Geo: there's only one home system, but lots of different revisions. Some people like the earlier systems, but I actually like the later revisions, they are more reliable and easy to modify for perfect RGB. Throw in a stereo mod and a Unibios and you're ready to go.

I think I'll stop there for now, but I have a lot more systems, heh heh.

Lum

X'eye has one small problem most models don't. Soft reset into Master System mode was broken. It can only correctly load an SMS game direct from power up (cartridge converter), not while already on (everdrive style flash cart).
*bzzzt*

Lum

Quote from: 80sFREAK on July 15, 2012, 08:29:54 pm
Quotejapanese only cartridges for games where they had a higher quality MMU.
mappers are the same, just NES have no ability for sound extensions. Keep emulating eating ersatz.

Quotemods to select US or japanese language
???

QuoteSo here i'm sharing a bit of rambling commentary on the best I know of for various systems,

Quotesystems

QuoteN64 i've seen a hacked version of some emulator

QuoteDreamcast emulators

QuotePlaystation 1 and 2 emulators

QuoteGamecube/Wii emulator

/0

P.S. This guy so epic...


Would you prefer Genesis games were in British language instead of US?  ;D
*bzzzt*

topshelfgamer

I'm confused at the epic and ersatz comments, is discussing emulation bad?  :-/  If hardware results in a lower quality I guess i'm confused.  If properly warned I shouldn't talk much about emulation I can tone it down, someone else suggested it's mostly real hardware talk here but I didn't know that meant you shouldn't even talk emulation.  It just happens that the consoles I listed for hardware ARE moddable for things I haven't seen done as well in emulators really and i'd rather play on a console given a chance.  If you know of a way to get real widescreen instead of stretched fat mode or pillarboxing out of a Dreamcast or Gamecube i'm all ears. :(  There's also that I haven't seen many hardware mods for any of the newer consoles compared to how you can trick out a fami or SMS, there's no real enhancements possible beyond a stock console.  If someone starts coming up with cool things to do with a Playstation 2 or something i'd happily list hardware instead as the ultimate incarnation for that platform.

By all means, if you can suggest better solutions using real hardware, such as "Games X, Y and Z don't emulate properly, the best solution is an overclocked N64" or something i'm all ears.  I wanted to hear YOUR ultimate setups, thats why I posted mine from what i've seen others suggest on other boards.

Not sure why a US/japanese language mod is strange, here's the mod source http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPtmp-QC-gw and it's not always the same as just region modding to play japanese games.


I'd like to hear GohanX extend his commentary on other consoles actually.  Would like to know about RGB mods for Genesis/X'eye/(hopefully Wondermega?) and TG16 RGB/recapping, those are both new to me, and an example of why I asked.  How is the SNES mini video chip better, where did you find such information out, assumedly other SNES fanatics on another board?

Frank_fjs

The Master System and Mega Drive already have native RGB output, no need to mod them just need the right video cable.

The PC Engine systems generally need the caps replaced but it really depends on the model as to how soon this will be. The original black units are notorious for failing, I've found that the Duo-R's and RX's are still fine. The CD lens also lasts a long time, but people are comforted by having a new one installed. The PC Engine also outputs a native RGB signal but it generally needs to be amplified and exposed via fitting a new video plug.

Lum

Quote from: 80sFREAK on July 15, 2012, 10:57:45 pm
Quoteultimate setups
sorry, i don't have this fetish.

Discussing emulation is not bad, but it's kinda too much. Looks lke wipe...

QuoteIf you know of a way to get real widescreen instead of stretched fat mode or pillarboxing out of a Dreamcast or Gamecube i'm all ears.
That's really epic


ultimate setups are a GOOD outcome. better video and sound, ability to play imports easily... people will spend hundreds of dollars to use features that emulators already have, on the console's true hardware.
*bzzzt*

nintendodork

Quote from: topshelfgamer on July 15, 2012, 10:01:55 pm
is discussing emulation bad?  :-/  If hardware results in a lower quality I guess i'm confused.  If properly warned I shouldn't talk much about emulation I can tone it down, someone else suggested it's mostly real hardware talk here but I didn't know that meant you shouldn't even talk emulation.
Discussion of emulation is fine. :)
I like to glitch old VHS tapes and turn them into visuals for live music events. Check out what I'm working on - www.instagram.com/tylerisneat

Lum

Yeah it's more the long winded posts are a bit tough to digest at once.
*bzzzt*

GohanX

July 17, 2012, 10:20:08 am #9 Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 10:34:49 am by GohanX
Quote from: topshelfgamer on July 15, 2012, 10:01:55 pm
I'd like to hear GohanX extend his commentary on other consoles actually.  Would like to know about RGB mods for Genesis/X'eye/(hopefully Wondermega?) and TG16 RGB/recapping, those are both new to me, and an example of why I asked.  How is the SNES mini video chip better, where did you find such information out, assumedly other SNES fanatics on another board?


The Genesis and X'Eye don't need mods for RGB, but if you are using an american television you need something to convert the RGB to Component, which is the next best thing to playing in true RGB. I use a Euro SCART RGB to Component transcoder I got off of ebay for $50 and have bought the RGB cables from various places for every system that supports it. It's awesome. The Genesis in particular benefits the most from RGB, as most models have pretty terrible composite and really awesome RGB. I've never dabbled with Japanese Mega Drives, so I can't comment on the Wondermega.

TG16/PCE doesn't output RGB so it needs a mod. Also, the RGB signal is weak and requires amplification. I modded my TG16 CD dock to pull straight RGB from the expansion connector and bought a RGB Scart cable from a website that has an amp built in. Great quality., even though theoritically teh amp would work better being internal and near the RGB source. As far as capacitors go, some PCEs are better than others but most of them are going to need caps sooner or later. The original Turbo PCE Duos used terrible caps, which is why Duo R's are more desirable, but if it's been recapped already then it should last another 20 years at least.

I'll go into the SNES later... gotta go.

*edit*

The SNES thing was more of an observation, actually, as I'm not a part of any SNES forums. I was just sick of my US SNES's turning yellow and I hadn't discovered Retr0brite yet, so I figured I'd mod the SNES 2 since they rarely turned yellow. I noticed the image quality was a bit sharper, and I researched it and apparently the SNES 2 has a newer, slightly better version of the video chip. That being said, the image is still pretty soft compared to other systems, and their really isn't a big difference between the SNES 1 and 2. I still actually play on an origial Super Famicom more often than not, just because the SFC looks cooler.

Drakon

July 23, 2012, 05:38:49 am #10 Last Edit: July 23, 2012, 06:08:41 am by Drakon
You can give my forum a peek:

http://16bitgamer.forumotion.ca/

I upgraded the video quality in my snes 2 (mini) by installing a video encoder that's even better than the encoder already found in the system (yes such a thing exists).

My best selling product is the nes / famicom with true rgb, s-video, an upgraded sound circuit.

I recently made a perfect s-video mod for the sega 32x that gives you perfect looking s-video for genesis and 32x games.

I also got pixel perfect component video from the sega genesis and there's development of an even cheaper circuit which I'm sure I'll buy a copy of and wire up for testing purposes.  And yes you have to do a mod to the genesis to get rid of some weak video jailbars in rgb / component video.

I recently posted a super simple pc engine / turbografx 16 s-video mod that looks perfect and I'm working on the audio for the pc engine right now.

I've got starfox running on a real superfx 2 chip at 45 mhz so it plays super smoothly (over twice the original framerate and you can play it on any regular snes).

I built an arcade supergun and modded a video encoder pcb to output the cleanest possible s-video for an arcade supergun.

I hacked up my street fighter 2 arcade board and romhacked the game making it way more fun than even champion edition.

I build padhacks for my arcade sticks so I can use my arcade sticks on all of my favourite consoles.  Nothing like playing nes games using a 200$ stick with upgrades.

I modded the snes super scope to get power from a wall AC power brick so it no longer needs batteries.

There's a lot of stuff on my forum that's in the avenue that you're looking for.  I started out just like you, just wanting the best experiences humanly possible.  Eventually I taught myself how to mod things and now it's turned into a small side business for me, mostly after I started offering a lot of new mods that had never been done before.

Also some other modders who've done some great work are ziggy from the racketboy forums and tiido from sega16.

Post Merge: July 23, 2012, 05:52:48 am

Quote from: GohanX on July 15, 2012, 10:16:15 am
NES: Refurbished toploader with security chip disabled and extra sound mod added. RGB mod would be preferable, but not at the sacrifice of a Playchoice board. Also, play with a NES 2 dogbone, it's an awesome controller!


It's good to do research before you post.  I'm pretty sure the nes 2 doesn't have a security chip.  When you use a rgb ppu from a playchoice you're not "sacrificing a playchoice" the ppu is socketed in the playchoice board so you're just removing the chip from the socket and putting it into a console.  You can always put the ppu back into the playchoice no damage is done.  Actually most playchoices that I got ppus from the boards were completely damaged anyway but the rgb chips themselves were okay.  I have a box full of playchoice pcbs in various conditions for sale if anyone wants them.  You'll just have to find a rgb chip that you'd just stick into the socket.  No playchoices were harmed in the making of my mods the boards are just in storage.

GohanX

You're right, that's supposed to say "Toaster," not toploader. I'll fix it.

Also, if I could get my hands on the PPU from a dead Playchoice, I sure as hell would mod it for RGB. Socketed or not though, you're still eliminating a Playchoice board from someone who might want it in its original form. If they were more common, I wouldn't care, as I've plundered common systems/cartridges for parts plenty of times.

Drakon

Quote from: GohanX on July 23, 2012, 11:26:54 am
You're right, that's supposed to say "Toaster," not toploader. I'll fix it.

Also, if I could get my hands on the PPU from a dead Playchoice, I sure as hell would mod it for RGB. Socketed or not though, you're still eliminating a Playchoice board from someone who might want it in its original form. If they were more common, I wouldn't care, as I've plundered common systems/cartridges for parts plenty of times.


There's plenty of trashed playchoice boards with good rgb chips out there.  I like repurposing stuff and giving it new life.

GohanX

Where are you finding them? Other than Neo Geo MVS, I'm not up on arcade hardware communities and sales.

Drakon

Quote from: GohanX on July 24, 2012, 06:20:11 pm
Where are you finding them? Other than Neo Geo MVS, I'm not up on arcade hardware communities and sales.


Found a bunch on ebay a while ago.  Just have to keep your eye open.