Please make offers

Started by BonBon, November 17, 2017, 06:03:51 pm

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BonBon

So I'm pretty bugged by this. I saw a post in the B/S/T forum saying Basically price everything no matter what. What ever happed to negotiation  especially when it comes to something rare. Nobody is trying to rip anyone ("i  hope). common games yes price them Accordingly. But to ball bust some one for wanting an offer is uncool in my book.

L___E___T

 



I think you're inaccurate about this 'no matter what' business.

We discourage asking for offers only, when it comes across as bait for unsuspecting buyers.

We don't let people price flame in BST threads, but sometimes people take the piss trying to pass off games at double value etc.  When that happens, people are quick to call it that kind of thing out as bad practice.

In the end, if you know what you would roughly sell something for when answering a PM, that should come across in the post.  Otherwise it's too easy for our members to be taken advantage of.

It's still very plausible to ask an upper value for something but entertain offers. 

You'll also get more interest if you stick a number to it - posts that's are for offer only tend to get buried.

___

I think it's good to have a discussion about this, but follow the rules of the forum please if you want to discuss it.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

fcgamer

It's funny how moderators are trying to make up arbitrary rules when it suits them.

Mt777 is a good member, I don't think he is trying to take the piss and rip people off.

Let me be the first to say it, well the second after Jay ray. The whole thing is peculiar to me, and I also feel it quite strange how someone living in areas not known for bootleg games could fairly judge what a fair price e git an item if that sort to be, other than by voting with their wallet.

Post Merge: November 19, 2017, 08:17:10 am

Here is my reasoning behind it: let's say seller pays $5 for the g as me originally. Then add in leg work, what is a fair price to charge, especially with whatever rarity on top of that?

If I paid $1000 and flew to Poland, then spent my holiday searching out games, the cost us going to be extremely high compared to whatever he might be willing to accept. Yet people are always quick to price other peoples things, when they don't know the situations about how it really is.



Post Merge: November 19, 2017, 08:17:52 am

It would be different if we were talking about modern releases or aliexpresd crap
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L___E___T

November 19, 2017, 06:47:01 pm #3 Last Edit: November 19, 2017, 06:52:02 pm by L___E___T
 



I think that Polish holiday scenario is a very strange example to use.  That's not how value really works.

There's what something is worth (to you, to me, or to whoever else) and there's what something is worth generally from a market POV.

For example, if I love a certain game that everyone else hates so I bought a signed manual for $999, but in reality to most people that manual is worth $9 because it's a rubbish game and there are many, many loose manuals on eBay for $9.  Then at open auction, is that manual likely to sell closer to $9 or $999?

Anyway, I hope that explains the difference between sentimental value and aggregate value AKA going rate.

I know these aren't auctions, but asking for offers is similar to an open ended auction.  Even more if the offers are only over PM, and nobody except the seller has visibility on the offers - then it can get shady.

What can be concerning is when a post goes up with "offers via PM" and it gives the impression that someone wants to keep price discussion very private.  Add to that, we do have the Price Check thread to help value items.

This is my opinion on why it's better to state a price if you have a price in mind.  It can still be high and that's fine.

But as an example, if you say "no idea what it's worth please make an offer" and then refuse three offers for $50 because you want $60, then why not just say something like $75 or make an offer?  This example is theoretical and not based on experience, but if no discussion is allowed, then who knows what to think?

There's no new rule being made, but if something looks a bit shady then people are going to be quick to call something out.  Hence what has happened here, and the reactions, and hence this discussion thread.

I had a bunch of pulseline games once listed for offer in a thread because I wasn't sure of the value - but I said first good offer gets them, and they went for cheap to the first interested party.  

In any case, nobody's having their "balls busted" over this though - other than a few mods that have enough to deal with already.  We can have a civil discussion about these things as we're pretty much all adults here.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

fcgamer

November 20, 2017, 05:42:34 am #4 Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 06:01:24 am by fcgamer
Actually let you are wrong. You should take a few more business classes, me thinks. 

What people pay is value of good + added value, in this case doing the footwork. Classic example, the so called reproduction games. Anyone can burn chips, solder, print a label and box if so inclined. Yet people are willing to pay $90+ for these games, where others have done the extra work. That's how things work in the reality.

Sure, you could pay a plane ticket and come on holiday to do lii and, spend the whole holiday tracking down old games to pay 50 cents a pop in the shop, but wasting the whole holiday,  or you can pay someone to do the legwork for you and pay a slightly higher price. It's the same reason people who don't live in Japan go to super potato to buy the game their hunting.

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 05:46:41 am

The while thing about screwing others over:

If you guys want to go that route in your argument, then you also need to ban modern reproductions on the same grounds...are we trying to protect the uninformed from getting scammed, or not?!?

If so, need to mix the modern retros, they are just as much if not more of a potential scam for the uninformed than for best offer...

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 05:50:00 am

In the last edit, I mean modern repros.

If people were holding AUCTIONS via pm only, sure that is shady, but regular items, not really. Oh hey mate, I got a higher offer from another guy, you care to make a better offer? Of course the other guy throws up a middle finger, it's too obvious and to its a bit insulting to tell us we need to list prices to avoid getting scammed.

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 05:54:44 am

The fact is, yet again over zealous moderators here are busting balls and making up rules on the fly, outside if their jurisdiction, just like a few months back when members were censored without reason, and my name was slandered as I was called a liar.

Mods always speak out that they should be treated with respect, but respect is earned...if they treated non mods with respect, maybe more respect would be given in exchange

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 06:01:24 am

Oh and by the way let, please don't insult me again or play me for some kind of ***king fool. I don't care who you are, what I mentioned in the earlier post had nothing to do with sentimental value, so don't act like it did.

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UglyJoe

Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 05:42:34 am
Mods always speak out that they should be treated with respect, but respect is earned...if they treated non mods with respect, maybe more respect would be given in exchange


Good to know that our daily efforts to keep spammers from overrunning the boards is appreciated ::)

fcgamer

Quote from: UglyJoe on November 20, 2017, 06:26:17 am
Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 05:42:34 am
Mods always speak out that they should be treated with respect, but respect is earned...if they treated non mods with respect, maybe more respect would be given in exchange


Good to know that our daily efforts to keep spammers from overrunning the boards is appreciated ::)


So it's OK for police to shoot people just because?  ?!

I'm a teacher, like I said, respect is earned, not a given. For those who disagree, perhaps that is part of the problem...

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UglyJoe

Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 06:32:15 am
So it's OK for police to shoot people just because?  ?!


Wow.  What a horribly insensitive metaphor.

fcgamer

Quote from: UglyJoe on November 20, 2017, 07:39:13 am
Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 06:32:15 am
So it's OK for police to shoot people just because?  ?!


Wow.  What a horribly insensitive metaphor.


And what exactly might be your point? That I choose not to abide by the politically correctness of someone living in another country?

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L___E___T

November 20, 2017, 09:06:31 am #9 Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 09:14:14 am by L___E___T
 



FCgamer I stand by my example and I think you're being naiive in your stance.  I don't agree with your holiday example, to me that's a bit nuts.  
If someone priced something that way, I would be amazed if it sold, when similar items are available for less.  It's weird with no real-life example.

______________________________

Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 05:42:34 am

The fact is, yet again over zealous moderators here are busting balls and making up rules on the fly, outside if their jurisdiction, just like a few months back when members were censored without reason, and my name was slandered as I was called a liar.

Mods always speak out that they should be treated with respect, but respect is earned...if they treated non mods with respect, maybe more respect would be given in exchange

Oh and by the way let, please don't insult me again or play me for some kind of ***king fool. I don't care who you are, what I mentioned in the earlier post had nothing to do with sentimental value, so don't act like it did.



______________________________


First of all - I did not, and never would insult you.  I certainly wouldn't swear/curse at you and am always civil, so I think it's fair to reciprocate that courtesy.

Secondly - Nobody made up any rules on the fly, nobody had they're balls busted.  But if you fly off the handle in an emotional way, we then have to clean it up.

Lastly - I missed the whole 'censorship' debacle from a while back, but from what I did see, it was by no means without reason.  It does get tiresome to be honest..


I have never personally asked for special treatment - I will always say that we should always treat each other with respect and that's what I do, and will continue to do.  I treat everyone with the same respect I would expect anyone else to get.  You really don't have to react so emotionally every time something surfaces that you disagree with, it's quite unnecessary.  No-one's attacking you here.
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

BonBon

How I truly feel is that some mods try to micro manage every single thread with opinions and comments that are not relevant and discouraging. It almost feels like they have to post something in every thread just to show that it was approved because It's been acknowledged with a mod post. I've seen WTB threads questioned of "why do want to buy this game when play it on a everdrive". I've seen for sale threads ripped apart over pricing, also people have gotten collection pics removed. I've personally been on the receiving end of this kind of crap it just seems so unnecessary. I'm looking at you L_E_T.

L___E___T

November 20, 2017, 09:17:47 am #11 Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 09:31:00 am by L___E___T
 



Jay I know you don't like me personally for whatever reason, but I think you're reading too much into any comments.  There's no power trip or micro management, all we want to do is help out where we can.  If you don't remember - I chose to remove one picture from a finds thread because it was effectively a scan of a very expensive game, the one scan that is often requested so that people can make copies of it rather than pay the money it commands.  And if repros then flooded as a result, it would devalue the item you had paid a lot for.  It was to help you out, it was not any kind of punishment and I made it very, very clear both in the thread and in PM.  It's a separate topic, and I'm more than happy to talk with you about over PM if you would prefer not to derail.  Yes we try and keep a clean forum, but I would say that if you do think there's micro-management going on, please take a moment to look at it again before assuming that's so. There's certainly no bad feeling from my side, I'm pretty chill so I don't understand getting so worked up over things online.  
My for Sale / Trade thread
http://www.famicomworld.com/forum/index.php?topic=9423.msg133828#msg133828
大事なのは、オチに至るまでの積み重ねなのです。

mt777

I see that this discussion is propably about my topic  ;D.
I wrote `For offers` because some titles are valuable for specific region (examplary Sachen games in PL are not valuable and popular and here I sold without problems) and sometimes is hard to estimate price.
I've updated my topic.

MasterDisk

While I don't think there should be any rules regarding the "for offers"-only threads. I do feel it catches less the interest of the members. And usually people just ask me how much I want and I give them an estimate with shipping (unless for very specific items), so it's kinda biased for me anyway.

fcgamer

November 20, 2017, 02:39:57 pm #14 Last Edit: November 20, 2017, 04:12:18 pm by fcgamer
Quote from: L___E___T on November 20, 2017, 09:06:31 am




FCgamer I stand by my example and I think you're being naiive in your stance.  I don't agree with your holiday example, to me that's a bit nuts. 
If someone priced something that way, I would be amazed if it sold, when similar items are available for less.  It's weird with no real-life example.

______________________________

Quote from: fcgamer on November 20, 2017, 05:42:34 am

The fact is, yet again over zealous moderators here are busting balls and making up rules on the fly, outside if their jurisdiction, just like a few months back when members were censored without reason, and my name was slandered as I was called a liar.

Mods always speak out that they should be treated with respect, but respect is earned...if they treated non mods with respect, maybe more respect would be given in exchange

Oh and by the way let, please don't insult me again or play me for some kind of ***king fool. I don't care who you are, what I mentioned in the earlier post had nothing to do with sentimental value, so don't act like it did.



______________________________


First of all - I did not, and never would insult you.  I certainly wouldn't swear/curse at you and am always civil, so I think it's fair to reciprocate that courtesy.

Secondly - Nobody made up any rules on the fly, nobody had they're balls busted.  But if you fly off the handle in an emotional way, we then have to clean it up.

Lastly - I missed the whole 'censorship' debacle from a while back, but from what I did see, it was by no means without reason.  It does get tiresome to be honest..


I have never personally asked for special treatment - I will always say that we should always treat each other with respect and that's what I do, and will continue to do.  I treat everyone with the same respect I would expect anyone else to get.  You really don't have to react so emotionally every time something surfaces that you disagree with, it's quite unnecessary.  No-one's attacking you here.


Trying to tell Me that a person doing the legwork to get the games before selling is sentimental value is in and of itself insulting, imo. The fact is, this happens each and every day, and that's what people are paying the money for.

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 04:08:05 pm

also, people on fw and more constantly on Nintendo age are always asking others where to buy games when going on vacation, it's common concept

Post Merge: November 20, 2017, 04:12:18 pm

Finally I think Jay has it right on where the whole issue lies. Threads get censored for no reason, posts get deleted if someone disagrees,

Or the latest, the for offer thing. It's not required, it never was, it's not being helpful, I think established members all know what they are doing with selling goods. Imo it is just being annoying at best, thread crapping even at worse. And the way that it was painted as some necessity or requirement gets under a lot of peoples skins too.

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