An Discussion About The Ethics Of Not Identifying 1:1 Reproductions

[fcgamer]

Any middle ground on this to please techies, gamers, collectors all?  Let's share our thoughts and opinions. 

[GKill]

Sure, it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart! I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is. In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it.

I hope other users will be more polite. We did a hard job re-inventing the PCB, working with mapper, creating such beautiful cases and finding scans of whole papers that came with the game. We made only few copies and decided to share such a special game with other Famicom fans and collectors. Please, be respectful to someone else's work. It's our bona fides in the end

[VegaVegas]

WTF "reissue"

[fcgamer]

Sure, it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart! I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is. In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it.

I hope other users will be more polite. We did a hard job re-inventing the PCB, working with mapper, creating such beautiful cases and finding scans of whole papers that came with the game. We made only few copies and decided to share such a special game with other Famicom fans and collectors. Please, be respectful to someone else's work. It's our bona fides in the end

I'm not talking about cart so much as box and manual...

Food for thought: why should collector (like me) appreciate when people make fake copies of expensive goods, try to make them look similar to originals? At best it kills the market should collector want to resell his or her game (see thread on tiny toons mega drive), at worst it blurs lines so much that people get sold fake boxes and what not inadvertently (like happened to a serious collector here), or even becomes a situation like Super Maruo.

Then this does not even take into consideration any sort of feelings from the original developers...

Whether licensed by Nintendo or not, the game was still original. Licensing doesn't even mean much really, videomation was licensed on nes but unlicensed on Famicom, for instance. If the games original, just because it's unlicensed doesn't make it on to steal.

Maybe I will start being more "polite" and "respectful" of such projects when the other side acts in kind, towards original creators, collectors, etc.

[GKill]

It's awesome! I want one!

PM email sent!

Food for thought: why should collector (like me) appreciate when people make fake copies of expensive goods, try to make them look similar to originals?

I respect your opinion, but if you're not interested in obtaining subject item, what are you doing here? If you want to argue about it, please proceed to PM or Famicom board. Peace

As for METAL FORCE game, it seems like old edition is nearly extinct, especially when we're talking about complete condition. It's so rare, that you even will not find any pictures in Google! We've recreated technically identical to original hardware and made beautiful super-accurate custom boxes/arts. I was hard, I must say. And no one else succeeded with it so far! So, I believe we're doing a noble job, giving second life to such lost treasures like METAL FORCE.

[fcgamer]

I respect your opinion, but if you're not interested in obtaining subject item, what are you doing here? If you want to argue about it, please proceed to PM or Famicom board. Peace

As for METAL FORCE game, it seems like old edition is nearly extinct, especially when we're talking about complete condition. It's so rare, that you even will not find any pictures in Google! We've recreated technically identical to original hardware and made beautiful super-accurate custom boxes/arts. I was hard, I must say. And no one else succeeded with it so far! So, I believe we're doing a noble job, giving second life to such lost treasures like METAL FORCE.

See my friend, your answer is not respecting my opinion, or anyone else's who does not want to see his or her legitimate version of the game devalued, or even questioned as to its authenticity... Out of respect for you, I will start another thread regarding the selling of box / manual repros (fakes) for rare games.  If the game were Battle Formula, Recca, Kung-Fu,Gimmick, etc, no one on FW would stand for this crap.  So what makes Metal Force any different?



You talk about the game being so rare, well yes it is rare, but I have had an authentic CIB one sitting on my shelf for several years now.  If I wanted, I could print out dozens of inserts and manuals, etc, but I don't.  It's not noble, it's shitty, trying to make 1:1 or quite similar of genuinely rare / expensive items, from a collector's perspective.  

If you didn't want to piss off people that actually own the real game, why not just make a redesign version, so that your game / box / manual would be easy to distinguish from the original (real) one?  If it is truly a matter of sharing a game so that the masses can play it easily, this seems like a perfectly middle solution, which would make both gamers and collectors feel happy...

...otherwise, it opens the doors for a lot of folks to getting scammed, folks who have legit versions to also get jacked, etc.  Not very noble, imo.

 


Post Merge: February 16, 2018, 06:13:10 am
Edit:  Also, the way you have worded everything in your posts:

"old edition" (implies that this is a new edition, somewhat implies this is a legit product from the company itself)

"reissue" (again somewhat misleading implies that the company itself did this)

"it's easily distinguishable from old Korean cart!"  (box and manual are also?  Oh, and why use pink for the cart, case design is wrong, but  why need to use the same color as originals?)

"I also clearly stated in description what kind of edition it is."  (so what about people buying on second hand market, easy to tell difference?)

" In other hand, the "original" cartridge wasn't licenced... I think every true collector knows it."  (but the cartridge is not bootlegged either, it does not infringe on others IP.  so why okay to copy and sell?  If I copied and sold your android software, you feel is okay?)

[VegaVegas]

In a way I will absolutely agree with fcgamer here. Just say REPRODUCTION for crying out loud. This word is not censored here so you can say it here as much as you want to. As I mod carts myself, I can say it is a very clean work and not absurdly expensive even for 99$ if you sell it CIB, not to mention some games were never released and can only be bought as a repro or some carts are just unobtainable. What everyone complains about here is that you are very misleading and unspecific whether you are selling an "OLD ORIGINAL AUTHENTIC" cart as egay calls it or rather a _repro cart. Whether you are serious about describing your products 100% correctly or not, this will reflect on your reputation

[aitsu124]

I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.

[aarkay14]

I never knew of this game but I would say the cartridge finish is near perfect! It looks a perfectly fine Famicom cart.

[fcgamer]

Here is this guy's ebay auctions too:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/METAL-FORCE-Famicom-game-Reissue-complete-Korean-import/323074141974

Nowhere does it say the game is a modern fake created by the seller himself...  

[xIceMan]

While the work on this reproduction is very well done, I would really also say it is a reproduction instead of using work arounds to not describe it as such.  Whether it's using a whole new PCB + CPLD and whatnot, it still wasn't made by Daou Infosys at all.

I've done a small calculation with average prices.

Code Select Expand

Donor SMB2 Cart (since it's purple) = $5.00
XC9572                                             = $12.00
2 EPROM                                          = $2.00
1 SRAM                                             = $0.60
Compoments                                     = $1.40
PCB Prototyping                                = $2.00
Manual + Box (no idea, guessing)     = $10.00


This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.

Good luck with your sales!

[aodinets]

While the work on this reproduction is very well done, I would really also say it is a reproduction instead of using work arounds to not describe it as such.  Whether it's using a whole new PCB + CPLD and whatnot, it still wasn't made by Daou Infosys at all.

I've done a small calculation with average prices.

Code Select Expand

Donor SMB2 Cart (since it's purple) = $5.00
XC9572                                             = $12.00
2 EPROM                                          = $2.00
1 SRAM                                             = $0.60
Compoments                                     = $1.40
PCB Prototyping                                = $2.00
Manual + Box (no idea, guessing)     = $10.00


This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.

Good luck with your sales!

Talk is talk =) Please, make the same metal force at $33, I'll buy 10

[Flying_Phoenix]

Unfortunately, "shady" sellers who try to pass repros for reissues (lol) are only half of the problem. The other half are buyers. See, two copies sold. I really want to blame sellers but seeing how there's a market for modern repros, buyers are just as guilty, if not more (because if nobody gave a poop, sellers wouldn't bother).

[xIceMan]

Making a Metal Force (without box and manual) for $33-ish is absolutely possible. I don't see your problem. I don't mind if the price was $40-$50 but taking 3x as much as the material price is worth, no thanks. It's just my opinion, nothing else. I'm free to state my opinion.

Good luck!

[GKill]

I never thought I'd see a $100 repro. Didn't realize how much work it is to actually create one of this. Still, I agree that reissue certainly does not equal repro. It's cool that you managed to do this, but you need to be more specific in the future.

Using word "reissue" instead of "reproduction" I try to highlight that this product is well-crafted and complete with all papers. It's not like repros other enthusiasts make: loose carts in used shells with stickers made of simple  self-adhesive paper, cutted out with scissors, you know...

When I say "we created the cartridge", it's obvious that it can't be official realese of Open corp., doesn't it? Also, I can assure that if you compare our cart with original one side by side, you will see a lot differences. We just tried to make it natural and similar to common Korean or Taiwanese cartridges

This gives me a total of $33 roughly calculated, where $99 doesn't really seem to be a fair price at all to me.
Good luck with your sales!

thank you!
I just can't figure out why are you care about the price so much... No one forcing you to buy it, huh. What I can say, is that $33 roughly the cost of housing only: papers, stickers, outer boxes, PCB shells... and not, it's not Mario donor  take a closer look! The carts are painted with metallic rose professional (super durable) glossy paint. You will not find anything like this anywhere else. We're really proud of it.