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Author Topic: Famicom Bars are Being Shut Down by the Police  (Read 1392 times)
senseiman
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« on: June 14, 2018, 04:56:09 AM »

The Police raided several Famicom bars in Japan yesterday, it looks like they will all be shut down.  This sucks as they are one of the cooler parts of the retro game scene here in Japan.  I did a little summary of the news here:

https://famicomblog.blogspot.com/2018/06/oh-no-japanese-retro-video-game-bars.html
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« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2018, 08:52:32 AM »

That's sad, I've seen Famicoms in some bars and hotels available for the public to use (although they don't charge extra for playing), so I wouldn't think Nintendo would want to crack down on the retro community, that actually keeps these old games alive, like this.

Of course it would be technically illegal to use home game systems in an arcade like manner, even if they are old, but the police raids suggests that Nintendo and/or other companies actually complained.
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UglyJoe
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« Reply #2 on: June 14, 2018, 09:18:40 AM »

Lame.

I wonder if one loophole would be to have just the consoles there, but you have to bring your own games.
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MaarioS
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« Reply #3 on: June 14, 2018, 09:50:22 AM »

I wonder if one loophole would be to have just the consoles there, but you have to bring your own games.

I believe this would also be "illegal" as the HOME console is probably intended for private use only

But seriously though, this sort of crap would probably only happen in Japan, no one else gives this sort of shit about "copyreight violations" in the rest of the world
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senseiman
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2018, 12:13:49 AM »

That's sad, I've seen Famicoms in some bars and hotels available for the public to use (although they don't charge extra for playing), so I wouldn't think Nintendo would want to crack down on the retro community, that actually keeps these old games alive, like this.

Of course it would be technically illegal to use home game systems in an arcade like manner, even if they are old, but the police raids suggests that Nintendo and/or other companies actually complained.

Yes, the news reports make it clear that Nintendo instigated this with a complaint (along with Capcom and some other makers).  It feels like they are just taking the retro community for granted, it would have cost them nothing to turn a blind eye to this. 

Post Merge: June 15, 2018, 12:15:35 AM
I wonder if one loophole would be to have just the consoles there, but you have to bring your own games.

I believe this would also be "illegal" as the HOME console is probably intended for private use only

But seriously though, this sort of crap would probably only happen in Japan, no one else gives this sort of shit about "copyreight violations" in the rest of the world

Actually this would happen in a lot of other countries too - in the US and Canada the publishers are insanely strict about enforcing copyright law against regular people.  Probabl the main reason retro game bars aren't a big thing there is because of the fear of lawsuits. 
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MaarioS
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2018, 10:12:03 AM »

This is actually dumb as some sort of law states that intellectual property expires 25 years after the release date of anything, maybe I mislead some details but anyway this is a little dumb that corporations still give a shit about anything this old. They probably don't have any deal or money in that anyway, maybe they take just a fraction of a cash for virtual consoles but this is still debatable as virtual consoles selections are very limited in games. Even though they probably don't have any money in that anymore anyway, they still invested tons of $$$ to raid a few bars and confiscate... game carts and make a big deal out of this like they found crystal meth inside or something. Either way I don't get it
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« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2018, 11:18:10 AM »

25 years, that sounds more like patents (which also are regional). Software goes under copyright, which lasts like 70 years after the copyright owners death or something, so probably all video games are too young for this.

I'd think these bars and similar things actually promotes these old games rather than take money from Virtual Console though. But it is possible that Nintendo and the other companies don't really care about whether they loose money or not on this, and are instead more concerned about their face, and does this just to show that they are not tolerating their licenses to be used without going by the rules.
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Retrospectives
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2018, 08:42:36 AM »

Is about copyright. Difference from these bars and for example more famous game bar as Space Station or whatever is the reason they have to register what they offer to play with "コンピュータソフトウェア著作権協会" which can under circumstance give certain bars/shops/etc the right to let customer take part of game, and if not then is considered to break the copyright law. Simple as that. Not first time it happen and really not the last.
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Protoman
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2018, 11:39:44 PM »

Copyright laws suck
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senseiman
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« Reply #9 on: June 18, 2018, 01:19:55 AM »

Is about copyright. Difference from these bars and for example more famous game bar as Space Station or whatever is the reason they have to register what they offer to play with "コンピュータソフトウェア著作権協会" which can under circumstance give certain bars/shops/etc the right to let customer take part of game, and if not then is considered to break the copyright law. Simple as that. Not first time it happen and really not the last.

Yeah, that hits the nail on the head.  The Software copyright association (and similar bodies in other countries) are extremely aggressive about enforcing this sort of thing (their music counterparts even go after taxi drivers for listening to music while they drive).

Also, to clarify the law:

Patent = 20 years
Copyright = life of author + 50 years or 70 years depending on the country

Patent protects the invention, so the patent on the Famicom is long since expired (hence everyone can make Famiclones legally now).  Copyright on th eother hand protects the artistic expression (so the games themselves) and is going to be around for decades to come.

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Retrospectives
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« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 01:20:25 PM »

Is about copyright. Difference from these bars and for example more famous game bar as Space Station or whatever is the reason they have to register what they offer to play with "コンピュータソフトウェア著作権協会" which can under circumstance give certain bars/shops/etc the right to let customer take part of game, and if not then is considered to break the copyright law. Simple as that. Not first time it happen and really not the last.

Yeah, that hits the nail on the head.  The Software copyright association (and similar bodies in other countries) are extremely aggressive about enforcing this sort of thing (their music counterparts even go after taxi drivers for listening to music while they drive).

Also, to clarify the law:

Patent = 20 years
Copyright = life of author + 50 years or 70 years depending on the country

Patent protects the invention, so the patent on the Famicom is long since expired (hence everyone can make Famiclones legally now).  Copyright on th eother hand protects the artistic expression (so the games themselves) and is going to be around for decades to come.



Yes. Indeed. Actually law is quite clear on this here in JP, as compared to other laws that is not totally clear (gambling etc), but is seldom enforced unless there is external push from someone, in this case the gaming companies. I think is really good to protect the IP especially when it come to otherwise commercial business. Is like that everywhere, so I cannot see why it should be different in this situation.

Sure, you might say IP sucks, but in reality, without strict IP in Japan, our industries and gaming in particular would suffer from same faith as gaming in Taiwan, Korea, and other country was not very strict and therefore started to bootleg off Japan. Sure, is interesting with novelty carts as in unlicensed originals and to some extent even pirates, but overall without the strict Japanese IP, there would historycally never been any chance we had such a high quality gaming industry with Japanese popular culture, or other sectors as well.
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senseiman
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« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 02:03:12 AM »



Yes. Indeed. Actually law is quite clear on this here in JP, as compared to other laws that is not totally clear (gambling etc), but is seldom enforced unless there is external push from someone, in this case the gaming companies. I think is really good to protect the IP especially when it come to otherwise commercial business. Is like that everywhere, so I cannot see why it should be different in this situation.

Sure, you might say IP sucks, but in reality, without strict IP in Japan, our industries and gaming in particular would suffer from same faith as gaming in Taiwan, Korea, and other country was not very strict and therefore started to bootleg off Japan. Sure, is interesting with novelty carts as in unlicensed originals and to some extent even pirates, but overall without the strict Japanese IP, there would historycally never been any chance we had such a high quality gaming industry with Japanese popular culture, or other sectors as well.


I didn't actually say IP sucks, I said that rigid enforcement of it sucks.  IP is great when it serves the function of promoting  creativity and, yes, the videogame industry wouldn't be where it is today without IP laws since they wouldn't have invested in devleoping them without it.

That said, if IP rights are too strictly enforced or give too much power to entrenched, powerful  interests (which is what Nintendo is now)  it has the effect of stifling a lot of creativity through derivative works and the like. There really is no need to go after small time game bar operators for letting their customers play 25 year old games - it poses zero business threat to the makers and may even have the adverse effect of alienating a lot of fans.  This is basically just a power bully move  pure and simple.   

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Retrospectives
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« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 06:49:48 AM »



I didn't actually say IP sucks, I said that rigid enforcement of it sucks.  IP is great when it serves the function of promoting  creativity and, yes, the videogame industry wouldn't be where it is today without IP laws since they wouldn't have invested in devleoping them without it.

That said, if IP rights are too strictly enforced or give too much power to entrenched, powerful  interests (which is what Nintendo is now)  it has the effect of stifling a lot of creativity through derivative works and the like. There really is no need to go after small time game bar operators for letting their customers play 25 year old games - it poses zero business threat to the makers and may even have the adverse effect of alienating a lot of fans.  This is basically just a power bully move  pure and simple.   



Sorry. I referred to Protoman which just I found his comment ignorant. I agree is totally ridiculous that the law only is enforced when big background voices in society tell authorities to enforce them.

I'm no political person but as far as this goes is clearly just innocent to offer the customer playing some retro game while having a drink. So I agree with fully. Is just saying copyright laws sucks I felt was ignorant and not towards you senseiman.

Please excuse me I should be more clear.  Embarrassed
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 07:09:08 AM by Retrospectives » Logged
fcgamer
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« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 04:37:50 PM »



Yes. Indeed. Actually law is quite clear on this here in JP, as compared to other laws that is not totally clear (gambling etc), but is seldom enforced unless there is external push from someone, in this case the gaming companies. I think is really good to protect the IP especially when it come to otherwise commercial business. Is like that everywhere, so I cannot see why it should be different in this situation.

Sure, you might say IP sucks, but in reality, without strict IP in Japan, our industries and gaming in particular would suffer from same faith as gaming in Taiwan, Korea, and other country was not very strict and therefore started to bootleg off Japan. Sure, is interesting with novelty carts as in unlicensed originals and to some extent even pirates, but overall without the strict Japanese IP, there would historycally never been any chance we had such a high quality gaming industry with Japanese popular culture, or other sectors as well.


I didn't actually say IP sucks, I said that rigid enforcement of it sucks.  IP is great when it serves the function of promoting  creativity and, yes, the videogame industry wouldn't be where it is today without IP laws since they wouldn't have invested in devleoping them without it.

That said, if IP rights are too strictly enforced or give too much power to entrenched, powerful  interests (which is what Nintendo is now)  it has the effect of stifling a lot of creativity through derivative works and the like. There really is no need to go after small time game bar operators for letting their customers play 25 year old games - it poses zero business threat to the makers and may even have the adverse effect of alienating a lot of fans.  This is basically just a power bully move  pure and simple.   



I agree on this.

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senseiman
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« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2018, 12:47:48 AM »



Sorry. I referred to Protoman which just I found his comment ignorant. I agree is totally ridiculous that the law only is enforced when big background voices in society tell authorities to enforce them.

I'm no political person but as far as this goes is clearly just innocent to offer the customer playing some retro game while having a drink. So I agree with fully. Is just saying copyright laws sucks I felt was ignorant and not towards you senseiman.

Please excuse me I should be more clear.  Embarrassed

No problem  Grin

I agree with you!
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