Interest check! New high quality Famicom mini PCBs with sockets for ppu and cpu

[aarkay14]

Really? Why so many vias - looks like it come from autorouter. You also risk chance that something might go wrong in the factory.

Here is proper way of placing the component to minimize vias and complexity - if you move CPU/PPU and RAMS closer to the connector, you should fit in 10x10.
To minimize jailbars, put video amplify circuit as close as possible to PPU leg 11 and route its output to the RCA connector as far as possible from other signals (be advised that it also applies to the second layer)

Great! Thank you! I will try this and let you know! And yes it was autorouter! Lol

-Rama

[P]

there exist so many different "HD Solutions" that it for me personally has come to a point whereas people seems to think that HD-Quality is "pure" and "how it is supposed to look like", but that cannot be further away from truth. In fact, the way it was supposed to look was to play it on a normal CRT TV. Not PVM Monitor. Not Projector. Not HDMI. Not RGB. But a pure simple and easygoing CRT consumer availavle Television.

I understand what you are saying, but I also understand there's a need for HD output. The TV sets that composite was made for aren't produced anymore and they are gradually disappearing, there is a need for more future-proof solutions.

NESRGB isn't perfect and has compatibility problems. Besides many people don't want RGB on Famicom.

Oh Thats news to me! Can you tell me about the compatibility issues?

There were talk about certain games (Duck Maze, Orb 3D, Micromachines, Linus Spacehead, Morskoy Boy among others) not wokring properly with NESRGB. Probably these are (mostly unlicensed) games that uses unorthodox methods to get out colors which somehow bypasses the NESRGB's operation. I did some googling and it sounds like the known problem games have been fixed though. The point still stands that NESRGB modifies the way the Famicom works which is potential compatibility problems, something no game artist want. And since there are people that are more interested in jailbar-free composite video and others that rather want RGB both doors are best left open.

[Retrospectives]

Yeah, I can definitely say that I want composite out, with the option to also have RGB out. If I had to choose, I'd probably take the native composite rather than some jerry-rigged RGB only.

Same here. RGB solution is already existing out there and to make it compatible with the original housing of the FC is a very important aspect for me, which put it very difficult position. Even with sockets is very hard to cramp in an original HVC-PCB into the Famicom shell, so composite would probably be the best way to go as far as the possibilities goes when it come to use it in a original Famicom.

[Nesmaniac]

Awesome. I know you said having the original famicom housing be compatible is important to you but I do believe I would make the controller ports come out the front which the original famicom design was obviously shooting for as well with the ports on the front of the board anyways. If designing a modern board I think I'd go famicom 2 route and have NES style ports designed directly on the board unless you want to keep the controller 2 microphone components. Composite video out and NES ports on front would be the most popular I would think. Of course doing this would basically be copying the famicom 2 anyways so I guess I'm just mostly tossing some thoughts out there that I've had about the original famicom. Another thing, I think it would be awesome if someone made a square button controller for the famicom that didn't have the rubber buttons but plastic which I've been seeing in some of the wireless nes classic designed aftermarket controllers. The square buttons would have worked fine like that I believe but surprisingly no one has made one wired for the original famicom or NES as of yet that I know of at least.

[aarkay14]

OK I would love to add the nes style controller ports but where can I find them new in market? Does anyone know?

[Retrospectives]

OK I would love to add the nes style controller ports but where can I find them new in market? Does anyone know?

Would maybe be able to source them down in China, perhaps. But then probably needing buy in bulk. I can do some research to see if can find something.

For me the correct audio with mic 2 is more important than NES style controller though, but I understand people have different prefer so I totally accept anything aftermarket anyway.

[P]

The microphone is a mandatory part of the 05 board, otherwise there was no reason use 05 board was it?
As long as the microphone port is accessible somehow I think NES controller ports is a good idea, NES controllers are easier to find loose, as (internal) Famicom controllers are sold as spare parts instead of as accessories. For the microphone, you could try a standard 3.5 mm phone connector, like on the Analogue NT mini, so people can easily connect their own microphone instead of the unreliable one in the con II. If you connect all pins (including D3 and D4) on both controllers it is already an upgrade from Famicoms and AV Famicoms as it would allow things like NES Zappers and Vaus controllers (in both ports to boot, which is required by some unlicensed games). I don't know if this is possible on the 05 board though or if the NES has extra circuitry to allow this?

For a start I would just source the ports from extension cords, they should be cheap and easy to find. Also you may want to make sure the space between the ports are like on the NES for Fourscore compatibility.

a square button controller for the famicom that didn't have the rubber buttons but plastic which I've been seeing in some of the wireless nes classic designed aftermarket controllers. The square buttons would have worked fine like that I believe but surprisingly no one has made one wired for the original famicom or NES as of yet that I know of at least.

I don't think this is very surprising. I don't see any advantages of square buttons, only disadvantages (the same reasons why manholes are round).

[Retrospectives]

The microphone is a mandatory part of the 05 board, otherwise there was no reason use 05 board was it?
As long as the microphone port is accessible somehow I think NES controller ports is a good idea, NES controllers are easier to find loose, as (internal) Famicom controllers are sold as spare parts instead of as accessories. For the microphone, you could try a standard 3.5 mm phone connector, like on the Analogue NT mini, so people can easily connect their own microphone instead of the unreliable one in the con II. If you connect all pins (including D3 and D4) on both controllers it is already an upgrade from Famicoms and AV Famicoms as it would allow things like NES Zappers and Vaus controllers (in both ports to boot, which is required by some unlicensed games). I don't know if this is possible on the 05 board though or if the NES has extra circuitry to allow this?

For a start I would just source the ports from extension cords, they should be cheap and easy to find. Also you may want to make sure the space between the ports are like on the NES for Fourscore compatibility.

a square button controller for the famicom that didn't have the rubber buttons but plastic which I've been seeing in some of the wireless nes classic designed aftermarket controllers. The square buttons would have worked fine like that I believe but surprisingly no one has made one wired for the original famicom or NES as of yet that I know of at least.

I don't think this is very surprising. I don't see any advantages of square buttons, only disadvantages (the same reasons why manholes are round).

Totally agree. Microphone input is a must (for me but maybe not for majority), but at same time I do not want seeing some type of "Frankenstein Monster" that uses too many feature rather than being a cheap alternative for future needs. I remember we sold this PCB with RGB out, 4-joypad input (5 if calculating into the extension), PAL/NTSC and basically everything could be packed into a PCB. Never I felt it was genuine at any way though  But was interesting project from technical standpoint to see how far could push the limits.

Square button. I own Korean Samsung Aladdin Boy and that one also uses square button, but these are in plastic. I can say these square button start to jam after a bit wear. Is ok if using some type of non-toxic lubricant but I never think is a good way to play. I not play this system but have in collection, but whenever playing Mark III/Master system I just use MD Controller because is much better than any other option, except maybe SG-2 (I import from UK but is totally compatible with JPN/KR/TW systems), but that D-Pad is very not even so MD is better. I see personally no advantage of square button in plastic.

[aarkay14]

Thank you all for the great responses! I went through them all and did take a few points. I am sorry for the late reply but I was constantly reducing the size of my design and making it smaller and smaller. I am thinking to make this component by component so the Main PCB will be 1 component, a Power and Rear Video will be another component and so on.. Currently the raw design of the main PCB looks like below:



I have managed to put it in a 5x9 PCB but it can also become much much smaller! I will be working further on this! I want to make it compatible with housing/shell like the Famicom and also clone consoles like the Dendy etc! This will be like a DIY building experience, people will mix and match the rear AV parts the front controller parts that they want and build their own machine.

I had a few things to ask to the community:

1. Analog Video Amp circuit: Is the design below the best design for the super clean analog video amp:


2. I am using the 6116LA25SOG8 for the VRAM and PRGRAM, if someone has a clue please let me know if this will work fine?

Let me know your opinions!

-Rama

[krzy]

I wouldnt put serial nor parallel capacitor in the video signal. Parallel capacitor will act as low pass filter, making blurry video.
Serial capacitor might block low frequencies, needed for proper video synchronisation.

I remember one time when I was fixing old famiclone clonsole with non-standard video circuit with capacitors. In many games, TV was losing synchronisation randomly and there were horizonal bars of darker/lighter colours. Removing caps solved problems.

[aarkay14]

I wouldnt put serial nor parallel capacitor in the video signal. Parallel capacitor will act as low pass filter, making blurry video.
Serial capacitor might block low frequencies, needed for proper video synchronisation.

I remember one time when I was fixing old famiclone clonsole with non-standard video circuit with capacitors. In many games, TV was losing synchronisation randomly and there were horizonal bars of darker/lighter colours. Removing caps solved problems.

I see.. So how do u intend we shud do it? We need the best quality picture possible! Also may I ask u about the width of the traces that u use in ur design? I want to set this right..

[krzy]

This is the circuit I always use when doing consoles/fixing existing ones with invalid video circuit:
https://obrazki.elektroda.pl/8121403300_1513208184.png

It never failed, always give proper colour brightness (on chipped or glob top ones). Maybe except the  D99 or the second one famicom-like red-white chinese crap that you can buy nowadays.

With traces is not comething very crucial.
I prefer to use 0.05 inch grind for components / 0.025 alt grid for tracks (or 0.0125 when using SMD chips).
I prefer to make signal tracks 12 mils width because I can place them closest possible and the distance between them is comparable to their width, so Eagle won't complain (but that's because most of PCB I made are done in home and when Eagle won't complain about distances, it is sign there won't be any difficulties to make it in home)


Power traces are 0.02 or 0.32 (when using 0.02, you can still put that track closest possible to signal track and the distance still will be OK)


Sometimes, when you need to route two tracks between chip legs, my trick is to use 0.003125 grid and 0.01 mil track width just for the segment and it stil works perfectly.


For vias, I use 0.8mm drill hole / 1.6mm via diameter

[P]

Given how many different opinions there are on this thread I think the modular approach is great! This way you can build 60-pin, 72-pin or dual compatible or however you want!

Personally I'd maybe want to try different CPUs and PPUs as well, but that could be solved by socketing those chips.


The AV-mod discussion is the cause of many flame wars in the past and no-one seems to know a good approach that works in all situations. I guess you might have to experiment a little before you get a good picture.

[aarkay14]

Dear All,

Thank you for the replies and support! after a lot of effort I have finally managed to get the result as below and fit the PCB in very compact form:



Also, I am thinking of making the PCB support I/O like below (for the modular approach):



I am not building the 72 Pin version because I think the cart is too big for such a micro famicom that I want to make.. also we can also use converters... I think none will mind..

Please let me know in case of any opinions.

-Rama

[aarkay14]

Yes Nes style sockets will be an option..  to.change module simply swipe out the card or desolder... I need to research more on the connectivity thingy but I thing it will be a plug and play kind of setup..

-Rama