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« on: July 19, 2018, 02:05:45 AM »

I have good news and bad news for everybody.  The acclaimed NES homebrew game Battle Kid: Fortress of Peril is getting an official release for the Famicom.  There appears to be a Japanese and an English language option.  The bad news is that it is being release by everyone's favorite manufacturer of crap Famicom homebrew cartridges, Columbus Circle : https://akiba-pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/news/1133581.html
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« Reply #1 on: July 19, 2018, 05:38:14 AM »

Heh, Columbus Circle finally figured out they're not that good at creating actual games so they turned to licensing homebrews from others? I'm fine with that.

Pretty interesting, really. The first Battle Kid never got a boxed release on NES to my knowledge, only cart + manual. That box with its heavily japanized visual style + green cart do look pretty nice, I must admit.

I never did get too much into the game as the I Wanna Be The Guy-inspired gameplay isn't my thing, but that's still cool.
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2018, 08:38:39 AM »

I'm extremely excited about this, yet also feel that it has been long overdue, since the programmer (despite being a westerner) lives in Japan, and has done so for many years.
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« Reply #3 on: July 22, 2018, 02:48:53 PM »

It looks like they are still using dangerous 3.3 V boards but with a bit less crappy quality this time so it will kill work with more Famicoms.
I can't believe they keep doing this shit. Sad


I'm with Ghegs, I wanna be the guy isn't really my cup of tea, although I love Rockman games. I don't like zero acceleration platformers very much (in more primitive platformers like Donkey Kong it's fine though), even Rockman has a slight acceleration curve before he reaches max speed. Also I don't like the character design of the main character sprite, it is drawn way too simple. This release seems to have improved character portraits in cut-scenes though.
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2018, 02:19:46 PM »

Pre-orders up on Play-Asia, release in September.

I already have the NES version so I'm not going to double-dip, especially since it comes on the potentially console-killing boards.
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« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2018, 02:06:59 PM »

Pre-orders up on Play-Asia, release in September.

I already have the NES version so I'm not going to double-dip, especially since it comes on the potentially console-killing boards.

I see no reason about anything interesting in this. The NES version when it first released, I remember the hype. As comparsion, retro home computer. No matter MSX, PC88, ZX Spectrum, etc. You have Doujin/Homebrew games all over it.

Sure when a new NES/FC game is release as homebrew, I totally support it. But if releasing a game 8 year after the initial release just with some new fancy graphic, it take away the interest totally.

My point: NES/FC homebrew scene is very small = I totally understand we are not as generously provided with homebrews. But after 8-years releasing it on FC even using bad 3.3v PCB is telling me one thing = Greed.

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« Reply #6 on: August 10, 2018, 03:42:37 PM »

I think releasing Battle Kid for Famicom is only a good thing, since it's aimed at the Japanese retro audience who most likely haven't had a chance to play it before. Sure it's taken many years, but this might be the first time a Japanese company licenses a western NES homebrew. If things go well, maybe they'll get more into it and release more NES homebrews for Famicom, with faster "porting" times. They probably chose Battle Kid because it's likely the most well-known and competent NES homebrew.

Other than the board the release appears to be well-thought out, with the manual, green case and anime-style boxart. The PCB is the only confounding thing, why do they keep using it? Is this Columbus Circle's attempt to force people to buy their Famicom clones? I would've thought Japanese retro gamers prefer using official Famicoms since they're almost literally dime-a-dozen over there, but it's not like I can confirm this.
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« Reply #7 on: August 10, 2018, 06:16:28 PM »

 
 
 
 
Sure it's not great about the Columbus PCBs, but I'm quite surprised that some people are complaining about the release - isn't this what they wanted?

More options are generally not a bad thing - having a proper Famicom release, localised as well - who cares if it's late, you can't ask for more than that.

I wish the cost was a bit lower and the PCBs didn't harm the board, but I'll likely pick it up all the same.  And I really hope we see more proper releases.
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« Reply #8 on: August 11, 2018, 06:02:03 AM »

Sure, I agree is a good thing to have localized and such. But after eight year they want release it in anime style just because stereotype Japanese must like anime style? For me is much more respect if they release it under proper license from another company than CS and really make sure they market themself as westerner. Why? Because Japanese audience would love to see foreigner dev for the Japanese market and the interest would gain very much following.

Sure, most Japan casual retro gamer never heard of this, but just like other people outside Japan have a great interest and knowledge about Famicom. Japanese retro scene catching up very quickly just in the last ten years with twitter and such social networking I see at least for most "hardcore" collector into FC or retro game, they following or are followed by at least 10% westerner, and I get retweet of friends who retweeting thing from global community rather than Japan only. So in many way it go around both ways, and Japan is no exception nowadays as opposed to before when mostly message board, IRC, mailing list existed, because back then Japan scene was hard to get into, and international scene was hard for Japanese to get into I suppose.

Anyway I hope it can open a door to more games being released for FC so is not a bad thing, but I wish they chose not CS and in my opinion, no need of anime style.
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« Reply #9 on: August 11, 2018, 12:07:38 PM »

Anime style is great - the company is trying to localize and market the game towards a Japanese audience.  It is the very reverse of how Famicom games had been brought to the NES and then localized / altered, in an attempt to appeal to more people and sell more copies.  Whether making in an animation style will actually appeal to more Japanese or not, who knows, but that is surely the intention behind it all.  No harm in that. 

Likewise, I think it's great that the game is receiving a Famicom release, even after eight years or whatever.  Retrospectives, you may have stated that the motivations were greed, I beg to differ.  Years ago I had contacted the programmer of said game and asked him about making me a customized Famicom version of the game, paying full price+ for it (for a loose version at that), and even providing a proper donor board...I didn't collect NES, wanted to play the game, and didn't want to support piracy efforts either.  I likewise even offered to help him make a small run of Famicom versions of the games, all parts supplied by me, all profits going to him, and heard crickets for the effort.  It's no big deal on my part, I'm not offended or anything, but my point is, if someone doesn't take an opportunity up to essentially make money for free, then I think saying they are being greedy because later a professional company contacts them and asks to release a game is quite off base -- Sivak may be many things, but greedy he is not.

About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 
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« Reply #10 on: August 11, 2018, 12:44:25 PM »

About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

I'm just going to ignore the totally ridiculous comparison of human DNA and "Famicom's genetic code".

Are you seriously defending console-killing PCBs on the grounds that "the game's not developed for the original system, so it's okay"? How about developing the games for the original system first so retro gamers don't need to fear their systems being fried AND the game is compatible with all Famiclones as well? If your (=Columbus Circle's) Famiclone can't properly play games that are made for the original system, then it's a shitty Famiclone that doesn't deserve one bit of support. NES homebrews make it a point that the game is fully playable on a real, original NES and, y'know, doesn't destroy it. It boggles my mind that Columbus Circle doesn't have the same mindset, but if you consider it from a business standpoint of wanting to sell their Famiclones as well, then it makes sense. This is not a business model that should be supported by consumers. Worst case scenario it will only create a breeding ground for games that can only be played on a specific model of Famiclones and are completely unplayable on anything else.

Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.

Quote
Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 

Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.
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« Reply #11 on: August 11, 2018, 12:58:22 PM »

Regarding your last sentence:  You should think about what the person you are buying for would prefer, instead of purchasing what you would personally want yourself Tongue  Working with children myself, I can almost guarantee that Little Jimmy or Johnny won't notice the difference between a real machine and a clone, performance wise, and will indeed notice a HUGE difference in presentation.  I've been there and done that a billion times over.

If you were around long enough to remember the original homebrew efforts, there were tons of games and demos that were developed that (after flash drives and stuff lke that were developed), were discovered not to work on real hardware, but did run fine on emulators.  The list on NES World used to document this, no idea if it still does or not, but it would be worth a look.

Likewise, we should not forget all of the current multicarts, and the games from Waixing / Nanjing / etc that will not properly run on original hardware, yet will indeed run properly on clone consoles.  It doesn't make these unworthy of playing though...

One needs to keep in mind that clone machines were originally developed by reverse-engineering and copying original hardware, illegally.  Later, revisions would be made to make the machines cheaper, that's how we got things like NOAC.  Now the Nintendo patents have expired, I guess everyone can update and "improve" things even more, making them cheaper and what not. 

My point is though, it is what it is.  So many folks complain about the games not running in original hardware without potential damage, but what about those the world over, who AREN'T RUNNING on original hardware?  If there was a big enough market for clones to be released in Japan, surely that market is one million times larger, the world over.  Especially given the lack of AV on original Famicom machines.  I can pretty much guarantee that the folks on the island I'm living on really couldn't care less about the game running more safely on a clone console, and I'm sure in other parts of the world, the sentiment would be the same.  If it's such a big issue, surely after four+ releases, those in Japan (the main market, I would guess) surely would take issue? 

About the whole Columbus Circle thing, honestly I am tired of hearing all the gripes and complaints about that too.  Maybe I'll start marking posts as offensive anytime someone gripes about it :/  Between 1983 and now the Nintendo patents have expired, the hardware architecture has changed, and the price point has been driven down due to this...simply put, deal with it.  You have Famiclones being sold the world wide, even in Japan for crying out loud, NES clones being marketed world wide too, all selling for an easy point of $20 or so.  It's sort of like human biology and evolution, just like traits may have evolved with humans, the Famicom's genetic code has evolved to its current state.  That's why the games are being developed in this manner, to be 100% compatible with the machine they are developed for.

I'm just going to ignore the totally ridiculous comparison of human DNA and "Famicom's genetic code".

Are you seriously defending console-killing PCBs on the grounds that "the game's not developed for the original system, so it's okay"? How about developing the games for the original system first so retro gamers don't need to fear their systems being fried AND the game is compatible with all Famiclones as well? If your (=Columbus Circle's) Famiclone can't properly play games that are made for the original system, then it's a shitty Famiclone that doesn't deserve one bit of support. NES homebrews make it a point that the game is fully playable on a real, original NES and, y'know, doesn't destroy it. It boggles my mind that Columbus Circle doesn't have the same mindset, but if you consider it from a business standpoint of wanting to sell their Famiclones as well, then it makes sense. This is not a business model that should be supported by consumers. Worst case scenario it will only create a breeding ground for games that can only be played on a specific model of Famiclones and are completely unplayable on anything else.

Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.

Quote
Now to ask a serious question:  You need to buy a birthday gift for your nephew, and you want to present him with the gift of classic gaming.  Do you purchase him a used Famicom from Japan, possibly not CIB, possibly yellowed or scuffed up, or a BRAND NEW Famiclone that essentially gets the job done, for everyone other than die-hard anal collectors (I consider myself a die-hard collector and own countless legit Famicoms as well as Famiclones, and have no issue at using either)?  Well, probably little Jimmy isn't going to understand it if you opt for the original, and he sees snot stains on his joy pads, and would much prefer a brand new machine.  Just saying. 

Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.
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« Reply #12 on: August 11, 2018, 01:14:37 PM »


Keeping in mind that it's just the PCB that's the problem here and not the game code, and fixing the PCB is not an insurmountable effort, Columbus Circle deserves all the negative feedback that's coming their way about their boards. If a console-killing NES homebrew cart came out, the backlash from the western retro gaming community would be fierce and fast.


Original (well, AV FC), of course, and I'd make sure it was cleaned properly. I wouldn't buy anyone something that I wouldn't want to  use myself.

This is the main issue for me and Columbus Circle. They have the experience, and they have the feedback to listen to customer, to make the small change that would not cost very much to change. I suppose they still sit on stock from their older releases and trying save cost. Or else it makes no sense.

Regards of FC original or not. Not my thing of discuss since myself own both original, fpga, famiclones with discrete logics, or more modern NOAC just for sake of curiosity, ... If thing cannot play on original hardware, is okay if stating it was not the intention. But if releasing something saying "Famicom soft", then is clearly marketed for Famicom as a system, and not for Famiclone.

They could go easy route stating "This is potentially harmful for the original Famicom, please use with caution", or "Not intended for original Famicom" or just some type of warning, for me is just a fair way regarding Columbus Circle. So in that regard is pure greed they do not change it, and about anime style or not, is just my subjective opinion. Many people I talk with from other country than Japan say "I collect Famicom because I want to experience the real original system and library", nothing wrong with that, and my opinion is just I think if it would be more appealing if release it as it was originally intended, then for me is feeling more genuine, but I understand people have different opinion. Of course.
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« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2018, 09:09:32 AM »

As long as they keep destroying our Famicoms we are not going to shut up about this. It's totally unacceptable. Sad

I have nothing against Famiclones and I'm totally for supporting them too (I'm including Micro Genius-based Famiclone support in my homebrew myself since those are well documented), and I also understand that there are people growing up with Pegasus, Dendy and swapped duty cycles, but I still see little point in considering anything else but the original Famicom (and NTSC/PAL NES) as the standard definition.

Sure old homebrew only worked in emulators because the knowledge of the hardware simply wasn't as well known as it is today. Those games will fail on modern emulators as well and they can't be considered fully working Famicom games simply because they don't follow the rules. That couldn't be helped back then but now the hardware has been reverse-engineered into molecules and we probably know a lot more about it than many licensed developers did back in the day (many of their faulty assumptions and mistakes are well known at least). And the fact that it is no longer protected by patent is just an even bigger reason to consider it the the standard.

It's not like an MSX where only the programmable parts are standardized and companies could build computers with all kinds of stuff as long as they didn't change any of the programmable parts. Developers for the Famicom utilized all kinds of peculiarities of the hardware which are doomed to fail on clones that change things too much (although this happened on MSX too because developers wasn't used to this kind of possible variance in hardware and ignored the definition rules).

Things like Waixing must be considered another Famicom-derived system as their games are incompatible and do not follow the standard.
Sivak however did follow the standard as far as I know, and this game is marketed as a Famicom game. Yet Columbus Circle did such a shitty job despite being capable of better.

The part about anime style I think was about Retrospective not liking that they localized the game for Japan. I understand how he feels fully on this matter. Not because I dislike anime style or anything but because of the countless times I swore at companies destroying perfectly great games with their shitty localization decisions and faulty assumptions of what I like.
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« Reply #14 on: August 13, 2018, 02:29:30 AM »

As per the Wikipedia page for Battle Kid, the Japanese release has been reworked quite a bit.  They did more than just update the art.  Also, regarding the anime style in particular, the sequel to Battle Kid also had anime-style cutscene graphics, so it wasn't something that was just done to cater to a Japanese audience.
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