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Author Topic: Battle Kid Famicom Release  (Read 7668 times)
fcgamer
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« Reply #30 on: August 20, 2018, 03:45:31 PM »


 
 
 
I get what you're saying and I know what you mean.  The product isn't made exclusively with people like us in mind, but you have to realise - purists are going to be the primary or target market (can elaborate why) and as such it really is a bad business decision to have something in your product that actively acts against purchases for that top target group.

Sure some kids and clone owners will pick it up, but when the game is double the cost of your average clone machine - don't bank on tons of orders, they're price sensitive.

Purists on the other hand will drop megabucks on stuff they have to own - there's just less of them.  You also rely on those folks to evangelise for you - not slay the product.

So that's why I think it's a poor decision - I can only guess they went with a cheap option, and found out a bout it later.  Too late / expensive to do anything real about it now.

Compare this with the Classic Mini series, or the Super NT - where the emulation has bee fine tuned and a pixel perfect option exists for example.  It really matters for sales.



I think you are over-estimating and ignoring the reality here.  Wink  We are the minority of the market, whether we like it or not.  Period.

Therefore, the so-called "bad business decision" actually aren't so bad, if we acknowledge the fact that we sit in the minority.

There are "purists" on this very site that talk about / actively purchase the so-called "repro" carts.

This is what, the fourth or fifth game in?  It adhears to any other Famiclone (i.e. unauthorized) "Famicom" game being produced in this day and age, or in reality, for the past 15+ years...

Only those "purists" that fail to see that Famicom diverged two paths during the turn of the century are up in arms about this.  It's basically the same as if we got upset and didn't want to recognize English and German or English and Dutch as separate languages.  
« Last Edit: August 20, 2018, 11:05:45 PM by fcgamer » Logged

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« Reply #31 on: August 20, 2018, 09:18:36 PM »

 
 
 
 
I struggled to read that as most of it has a strikethrough.  No I really don't agree with your stance because I was talking about the core target market - not the retro market overall.

Numerically, we are a minority as is any niche.  But that misses the point - you need your easiest to reach customers with most affinity to be the easiest sell, and they've broken that.

I don't mind clones myself (prefer original hardware though) but I've not seen or heard anyone talk about this two paths thing apart from you.  But there's nothing wrong with the opinion.

I don't agree that a price sensitive clone buyer is the main intended customer TBH.  A $40 Famicom game is not chump change, and why make the effort to have it look like the real thing?

It's simple in my eyes - that Famicom fans want to play on a Famicom, and play real carts out of nostalgic charm.  Even CC's retro machines are adorned with FC livery so they must get it.
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« Reply #32 on: August 21, 2018, 09:54:48 AM »

Yeah they probably picked the cheap option without realizing that it's defective and now they are sitting on a pile of defective carts they need to get rid of like Retrospectives said.

If they want to sell it as a cart for a specific clone then they shouldn't write Famicom on it. That's just false advertising, and also really bad, especially as it's harmful.


Columbus Circle games aren't just normal modern pirate stuff, the earlier ones failed on way too many systems and even broke some of them. This is really just bad build-quality, nothing else.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2018, 10:07:52 AM by P » Logged

fcgamer
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« Reply #33 on: August 21, 2018, 11:10:29 AM »

I think we all need to take a step back here, and examine things from an unbiased perspective, as opposed to a collector perspective.

If we look at the boxes, they say the following on them:  "FC/FC互換機用". so basically Famicom + Famiclone.

These are unlicensed productions, however.  Per Nintendo's own website:

https://www.nintendo.com/consumer/licensed.jsp

"UNLICENSED PRODUCTS
If a product does not carry one of the seals listed above, it is likely not licensed by Nintendo. Unlicensed products and accessories do not undergo Nintendo's testing and evaluation process. They may not work at all with our game systems, and they may have compatibility problems with certain games or accessories."


I remember years back hearing Nintendo campaign about how unlicensed products *actually could damage* your machines.  Not sure if there was any truth to this or not, but it certainly seems relevant to this thread.

So by this point, we have arrived at the fact that the company advertises the games as being compatible with a Nintendo product, and that Nintendo states that compatibility issues are one of the known factors / risks from using unlicensed products.  If I dug through Archive.org, I am sure I could find Nintendo sending even nastier / scarier messages about the usage of unlicensed products.

As an aside, think about all of the unlicensed Nintendo NES game companies of yesteryear, and how there were so many compatibility problems, aside from modifying the machine and disabling the lockout chip Wink  This really isn't a new issue, at all.

Now I don't read Japanese aside from the shared Japanese / Chinese kanji, but here is a nice passage from the Columbus Circle website about their games.  Please use a translator like I did, or for those that can read Japanese, please read it in it's original form:

"◆ご注意◆
※本製品は任天堂社のライセンス製品ではございません。純正カセットの仕様とは異なりますので、
 純正FC・NEW FC・twin FCについては製造時期等により正常に動作しない場合があります。あらかじめご了承ください。
※他社FC互換機は、動作保証対象外となります。
※FC互換機については、純正FCと音が異なる場合や音が乱れる場合があります。
※本製品はコロンバスサークルのオリジナル製品であり、任天堂社のライセンス製品ではありません。
※記載されている名称または商品名は各社の商標または登録商標です"

So Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.  It seems like an okay thing from where I sit, they are selling machines and then making software to go with it.  Same thing with Famicom One Bus / V whatever it is called, etc.  Basically Famicom-based, but its own thing at the same time.  Just like Mr. Parker releasing a line of launch titles for his AVS. 

That is my issue with the complaints.  You guys don't know what or who the market for these games is, yet get up in arms when the unlicensed software doesn't work properly on licensed hardware.  Or to stir the pot a bit more, since the cartridge is a Columbus Circle game and was designed to be compatible with Columbus Circle game machines, I suppose one could argue that the Nintendo's Famicom would be the unlicensed version Wink  Anyway, we all complain that the games don't run properly on our original hardware, yet Columbus Circle did the exact same thing every other unlicensed company ever did, and they even advertise this. 

Just buy one of their cheap clones and be done with it, or just buy the game and run it in original Famicom hardware, taking a chance that it might get damaged, or just buy the game and run it in someone else's clone, which probably would also offer similar compatibility. 

One last thing regarding marketability:  If Columbus Circle is successfully selling Famiclones IN JAPAN then I think that says A LOT in terms of market.  As I said earlier, going to buy a game machine for your nephew, is he going to want a booger-stained Famicom sans box, or a cheap, shiny, sleek Famiclone, brand spanking new?  We all know wherein the answer lies.


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« Reply #34 on: August 21, 2018, 12:10:54 PM »

Has anyone bought a Columbus Circle Famiclone?  It is pretty much a crapshoot when it comes to Famiclones and NES Clones whether they have accurate sound.  Columbus Circle's earlier titles focused heavily on music.  I would suggest that most of those musicians composed their music with the assistance of accurate emulators.  How ironic would it be for CC's own consoles to have reversed duty pulse waves whereas official consoles and other competitors have proper duty cycle pulse waves.
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2018, 01:48:34 PM »

Yes of course Sivak developed the game for NES, it's just that it got licensed and produced on crappy carts. How would he be able to develop for a crappy clone system that isn't even documented? Columbus reprogrammed it from scratch but did they really change the duty cycle just so that it would sound like it should on their clone?

Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.
So you mean we should forgive them for doing a crappy job despite being capable of better just because they admit it was a crappy job? They are still selling the harmful crap to people.
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krzy
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« Reply #36 on: August 21, 2018, 02:37:49 PM »

I have finished my project of 5V->3.3V level translator that allows safe use of Chinese multicarts Smiley

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fcgamer
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« Reply #37 on: August 21, 2018, 04:09:33 PM »

Forgive them for doing what they said they were doing?  If you don't like the item then vote with your money, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with what they did.  It might not adhere to your standards, but that's just how it goes, and as it was explained before, there are plenty of reasons why what the did isn't some great sin against gamers, like you and some others on here make it out to be.

Yes of course Sivak developed the game for NES, it's just that it got licensed and produced on crappy carts. How would he be able to develop for a crappy clone system that isn't even documented? Columbus reprogrammed it from scratch but did they really change the duty cycle just so that it would sound like it should on their clone?

Columbus Circle basically says what Nintendo themselves say, basically says what we already knew, going into the realm of unlicensed / bootleg games from the start:  Unofficial games might not work properly on the official machine, could damage the machine, etc etc.  Who here is surprised by this?  I am honestly not surprised at all, it's the same situation as it has been for the past thirty years.  Nothing's changed here.

Likewise, Columbus Circle makes Famiclone machines.  In that brick of Japanese text, they only guarantee the product for those machines, which probably run 3.3 V since they are modern.  So basically, Columbus Circle is producing games for their Famiclone machines, which happen to also run on other hardware, with compatibility issues here and there.
So you mean we should forgive them for doing a crappy job despite being capable of better just because they admit it was a crappy job? They are still selling the harmful crap to people.
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« Reply #38 on: August 22, 2018, 12:15:13 AM »

I'd agree with you if the carts weren't proven to be harmful.
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fcgamer
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« Reply #39 on: August 22, 2018, 03:16:36 AM »

I'd agree with you if the carts weren't proven to be harmful.

Thing is though that sort of situation has been the case for all unlicensed products since the beginning.

Post Merge: August 22, 2018, 03:17:06 AM
So it's nothing new or surprising
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« Reply #40 on: August 22, 2018, 08:44:57 AM »

Sure, licensed or unlicensed shitty products are nothing new, but I don't see why we should accept them. These are shitty products well deserving the harsh critics they get. I don't think there's so much to discuss here.
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« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2018, 09:18:14 AM »

 
 
 
 
It isn't surprising when it's presented as a cheap knockoff game.  It IS surprising when it's put out as a brand new Famicom release, as close to official as you can get.

That's the issue - it's positioned as a game for serious Famicom or retro Nintendo fans.  It's not going to change but people are right to be annoyed about that.

Locking thread for now, will probably re-open when it's released.  I've pre-ordered the game, it arrives next month.  Not sure about how to play it yet.
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« Reply #42 on: September 20, 2018, 10:25:05 AM »

 
 
 
 
Decided to cancel my Battle Kid pre-order, as it's a busy end of year with some amazing games & products hitting shelves.

So I won't get this straight away to be able to test or anything.

Thread is therefore unlocked - so please post your impressions if anyone does pick it up.

Thread is therefore unlocked, but let's keep any new discussion decent, we don't need any more walls of text it's fair to say.
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fcgamer
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« Reply #43 on: September 20, 2018, 01:56:08 PM »


 
 
 
Decided to cancel my Battle Kid pre-order, as it's a busy end of year with some amazing games & products hitting shelves.

So I won't get this straight away to be able to test or anything.

Thread is therefore unlocked - so please post your impressions if anyone does pick it up.

Thread is therefore unlocked, but let's keep any new discussion decent, we don't need any more walls of text it's fair to say.

I haven't ordered the game yet, been too many other purchases and things going on.  Maybe I can scrape together some cash to order it next month, it would be a nice treat for October.

We already know the impressions though, no offense but the jury (you included) had already decided the verdict before the product was even released. The games are unlicensed and being clearly marketed for use on the company's own brand machines, but the majority of people have complaints due to the voltage differences compared to an original Famicom cart.

On another note, L__E__T, what constitutes a "decent" discussion?  One that doesn't go against your own personal thoughts and opinions, or the majority opinions?  Despite piles of marketing evidence painting different pictures?  Thanks for the jab about the decency of my posts and wall of text evidence, btw.  I'm glad to know that the stance is that if someone has a differing opinion from a majority / vocal minority (?) that their thoughts are considered indecent.
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« Reply #44 on: September 20, 2018, 05:05:27 PM »

 
 
 
 
Thereís no personal jab - letís just avoid any kind of flaming and reign in the temptation for a dissertation style case.

Keen to see impressions of the new parts of the game when itís out.  No commentary from me on CCís strategy etc.

Not much more that can be said for harmful PCBs etc.  Itís a marmite issue almost - most either hate it or donít care.
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