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Protoman
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« on: May 05, 2019, 08:34:31 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5H68KGg2qc

This time I made a video about my favorite N64 game and favorite racing game(that's not Mario Kart or GTA), Wave Race 64.

Hopefully this will turn out to be true
http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2018/04/wave_race_director_shinya_takahashi_hints_that_the_series_may_return_soon

And hopefully it will be better than Blue Storm, which I felt was sort of meh unfortunately.
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« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2019, 10:08:29 AM »

Oh this is one of my favourite 64 games too! Cheesy When it was new I was crazy about this game and rented it twice or thrice before I finally bought it (had been cheaper to just buy it right away Embarrassed). I especially loved the stunt mode and how the tracks feels like resort spots.

Although I have unlocked the dolphin, gotten the baby dolphins in warm-up mode to appear (but not the 30 laps killer whale, seems to be a false rumour though), but I have never beaten the championship mode, despite loving the game so much. I'm currently playing the Japanese shindou edition and the game is just much harder in 60 Hz than the slow PAL version. Now I felt like playing it again though, I will beat it on all difficulties one day. I also want to see the the killer whale calves in Southern Island (get exactly 35 points on hard or above before final track for one calf, and exactly 45 points on expert for two calves, though this last one may also be a false rumour). There's also a big dolphin by entering warm-up mode 20 times in a row (all explained here).

One thing that makes it hard is that you can't just redo a race. If you realize that you can't get a good enough place to get enough points in a Mario Kart or F-Zero series race you can usually just rank-out on purpose (in F-Zero X you simply crash). As long as you have enough extra lives you can just restart the race and try again. In Wave Race 64 however that isn't possible, you have to accept whatever position you get or redo the whole championship. In that sense the player plays by the same rules as the computer opponents, I like that part. On the other hand the player may be disqualified if the points do not exceed a certain minimum. The computer opponents do not have to worry about that.

Getting the final 4th place on purpose is similarly difficult in the Mario Kart series. There is a special scene where you don't get to be on the podium just like in Wave Race 64 (in SMK and MK64 anyway). In Mario Kart there are more than 4 racers though so the challenge is to not get rank 5th or 3rd, but exactly 4th.

The Game Boy game is also quite fun for a 2D-racing game. It has lots of modes and is challenging (I've sworn to beat this game as well some day). It's really too bad that the mediocre Blue Storm ruined the series. I have high hopes for the rumours of a proper sequel that can compete with the 64 game.

I also kind of hope to see a Wave Race 64 prototype ROM-dump when the game was still about motorboats, although it doesn't look half as fun as the final game.
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« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2019, 11:36:15 PM »

No one else plays this game? Too bad!

I started playing this game again and I finally was able to beat expert class, and unlocked the secret class!! Grin I used Miles Jeter with handling set to heaviest, he has too sensitive steering otherwise. Dave Mariner seems to be the fastest one on most tracks though. But he has too slow acceleration to allow for mistakes (maybe he is fine if you adjust his engine towards dash). I still can't beat the unlocked class, but I never give up!

I also saw the 3 "baby" dolphins (they look mostly like adult dolphins to me though), the big dolphin, the killer whale calf and unlocked dolphin riding in warming-up mode. The dolphins appears if you just follow the leading dolphin in an invisible track for a number of laps in warming-up mode (no need to do any stunts like what some guides tell you). The invisible lap counter resets if you go off the invisible track too far or crash so that the leading dolphin has to wait for you. The dolphin will do a backflip at the start line for each successful lap. At lap 3, 5 and 7, a second, third and fourth dolphin respective will join you. The big leading dolphin is gotten by just starting and exiting warm-up mode 20 times without turning off power. The killer whale calf is seen if finishing 1st in every race in Championship mode normal or hard class.

I still haven't seen the large penguin (finish 1st on all tracks in Championship until the Cool Wave / Glacier Coast track) or the second killer whale calf (finish first on all tracks until Southern Island on expert class or above and there will be two calves) though. The large penguin is supposed to be swimming at very high speed outside the course on the left side after the big ice bed (so on the opposite side of the penguin spectators).

I also found a rumour that the leading dolphin in warming-up mode will be doing different kinds of jumps if you follow him, then quit the mode (without powering off) and go back to warming-up mode again and do another lap. For each time he will do different kinds of jumps, and at the 6th time he will do a twist jump. I haven't confirmed this.

I learned some great tricks from looking around the internet! To go fast on any straight lanes you keep tapping B fairly fast and (more importantly) at a constant rate. Your character will keep adjusting the center of gravity as to minimize jumping and speed loss from ripples and small waves which if done like this makes you go much faster. I beat expert before I knew of this trick so you can definitely beat the game without it, but this makes CPU opponents cry. You shouldn't tap when taking sharp turns or when jumping on ramps or waves though or you will loose speed. This feels a bit like those lame techniques in recent Mario Kart and F-Zero games (snaking, momentum throttle etc) though.

Another technique is doing the submarine stunt without a ramp or wave. It is really hard to do and I can't do it constantly yet. It is used by speedrunners on Castle City / Twilight City to go into the shortcut tunnel without having to take the ramp. You flick the 3D-stick backwards then forward and you just kinda dive. The watergate in Marine Fortress can also be dived under with a long dive using a wave. But it requires getting there at a certain timing or you will miss the required wave (although ripples are randomly generated, the big waves are always at the same place and always comes at the same constant intervals, although they are also affected by the player's position according to those interviews).



About using a seagull or dolphin as a ghost rider. Actually in the shindou version the dolphin as a ghost is implemented. You need a memory card to save it like in Mario Kart 64 though. I didn't really get why they thought it would be strange if a ghost rider would be jumping on invisible waves though. I ghost is a recording of an older race so it only makes sense that it isn't affected by the current race conditions. I think a dolphin is much stranger if it for example swims through the Marine Fortress watergate when it's closed.

If you are just having fun in Time Attack or 2P mode I suggest playing Southern Island with the wild wave setting, that's what I always did when I was younger and the game was new. It is probably my favourite track along with Dolphin Park, Milky/Drake Lake and Sunset Bay.

This game is really a bit short on characters and tracks though. I wish there was some more arena type of levels than just the warming-up mode Dolphin Park. Like the "slalom" mode (more like capture the flag) in the original Wave Race, or something like Mario Kart's battle mode would be just great.
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Yelir
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« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2019, 01:43:13 AM »

A ton of info here that I have never heard of, save for the dolphins in training. I would rent this game and play mostly practice doing stunts and other stuff. I actually didn't like the main mode as a kid but need to replay this soon.

Have you ever played the Splashdown games? I rented them on PS2 in high school and thought they were very good. Weird thing on GameFAQs, the game comes up listed in PS4 so maybe the PS2 port is coming or maybe a remake? Bub
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zmaster18
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« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2019, 03:48:51 PM »

A discussion about Wave Race 64? I have a butt-load to say about this game, it's one of my favorite games of all time!

First of all, my story with the game:

When I was 3 year old we got the N64. Before that we had a Sega Genesis model 2 with a few pre-school games (Sesame Street, Magic School Bus, etc)
Our first 3 games we got were Mario Kart 64, Starfox 64, and Wave Race 64. I think my dad chose these games thinking they would be good, and he was right. Smiley
We obviously played Mario Kart 64 the most. We also played Starfox 64 sometimes, but as kids my brother and I never got passed the 3rd level. (Now I have beat this game and got medals as an adult. My bro still never got passed stage 3 hahaha....)
We have the least memory of playing Wave Race 64... we were simply just to young to play this game. Racing in between the L and R buoys was just too much for little old me. I never played it again and then we sold this game shortly after.

Fast forward to when I was 13 at my local retro game store...

I see Wave Race 64 boxed for $20. At the time I loved collecting and any boxed game seemed good. I also heard online that this game is really good, so I figured I should try it one more time. Even for nostalgia's sake, just to play a game from when I was 3 and just forming memories.
So I get home, put it in my N64 and play it. I didn't like it....Boring!!!!
A week later I'm about to go back the store to return the game for a refund. But before I bring it back, I decide to play it one more time. A voice in my head is saying "This game is supposed to be goood... try it!!"
So I try it again and I begin to love it. I love the feeling of the controls, the music, even the graphics started to impress me. This is the first non-Mario Kart racing game that I'm having lots of fun with.
I never brought the game back for a refund and played it all the time Smiley

This game is fantastic. I give it 8.5/10. My only complaint is that I wish there was more content in the game. If there were like 3 or so more tracks, I would give it 10/10. The game is a blast but I sometimes run out of things to do after a half-hour of playing.

I have the Wii U Virtual Console version of the game and it looks fantastic at 480p, instead of 240p on the N64 hardware. I also have the Rumble Pak Shindou Version and the new features in this version are great.



So being a huge fan of Wave Race 64, I wanted more. I remember playing Wave Race Blue Storm on Gamecube, but the game wasn't very fun. The game really lacked the bouncy waves that made 64 so great. The racing felt very "flat".

People often recommend 1080 Snowboarding, as this game was made by Nintendo EAD who made Wave Race 64 ( and Mario Kart 64, F zero X). When I first got a copy of this game, I thought it was horrible. The music was weird compared to Wave Race 64's amazing soundtrack, and the controls were difficult as hell. I kept falling after every single jump and couldn't win the first race. I thought this game was just low-quality, as if it wasn't tested or was rushed.

Just a couple months ago I watch a review for 1080 Snowboarding and decided that I would like to try and learn how to play this game. I decide to get it on Wii U VC and give it a go. The first 2 hours I played, I didn't like it. I kept falling after every jump!!!! But after playing with all 5 characters, I found that Akari Hayami (the girl in the yellow jacket) controls the best. I also like the way the character looks, as the others look kinda like slobs lol.

So I started getting better and played this game a lot during the week. I went from not liking the game at all to beating the game on expert and unlocking all the secrets in just one week.
1080 Snowboarding is a great game, almost as good as Wave Race 64. I think I'll give it 7.5/10. The only flaws are the difficult learning curve and the music is not that great. But a couple songs are great, like "Work ya Body" Tongue This game actually has some of the best N64 graphics, almost looks like a gamecube game. Looks amazing in 480p on the Wii U N64 emulator.

So after mastering that game quickly, I wanted more. Next I get Excitebike 64. Once again, in my teen years I picked up a copy, played it, and hated it. I remember the controls and steering were awful...
So I get it on Wii U VC and try it out. This game is clearly very low-budget, and the developers admit that they ran out of time at the end of development. This game not only has poor control, but also mediocre presentation/music, and really wonky racing mechanics. I often lose control and drive up walls in the outdoor courses.
When you do do well in a race it feels good, but overall this game is quite poor. I don't recommend it, except for maybe multiplayer where it can be considered "silly" Tongue
I give this a 6/10... I tried it for 8 hours. I made a big effort to get better at this game, but it just has too many problems Sad

Now I'm playing Excite Truck on the Wii. This game is amazing, I think I like it more than F Zero GX!!!! Hands-down the best Nintendo racing game.



Wow...That was a long post. I can discuss Nintendo racing games all day.  Bub
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Jedi QuestMaster
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« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2019, 08:28:24 PM »

When we were kids, we got an N64 for Christmas in '96! Grin With no games. Sad First game we rented (or was rented for us) was Wave Race 64. Amazing graphics at the time, not so much now. Tongue But the water physics are still cool! Shocked

Also, does anyone know more about this Wave Race 64 track that's featured on Nintendo 64 Original Soundtrack Greatest Hits?

About 1080: you can crouch to brace your landings. I always did this instinctively, but I don't know if everyone knows.
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zmaster18
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« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2019, 10:25:27 PM »

About 1080: you can crouch to brace your landings. I always did this instinctively, but I don't know if everyone knows.

Yes, even knowing about this from the start I still had trouble landing jumps when crouching with the Z button. It takes a while to get used to Tongue Akari Hayami has the best landing ability of all the characters. I first tried playing as the regular dude in the red jacket and he is a bit hard to control at first.
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« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2019, 05:59:34 PM »

1080 Snowboarding was one of those games I was interested back in the day, but I never bought it. It's said to remind of other Nintendo racing games (especially Wave Race 64) so I will definitely check it out someday. Excitebike 64 was another game I really looked forward to (just the thought of a 3D sequel to a childhood classic was very exciting back then), so it's really too bad that it didn't turn out that well.

I understand Zmaster's initial disappointment in the game though. When I first rented it I thought it was fantastic. But I didn't buy it until a few years later when the 64 was at its end. When I played I was first disappointed that it wasn't as flawless as I remembered it, plus my joysticks were so worn out that the game was hardly playable (stunts didn't work at all due to the dead-zone being too big). I later got back to it with more realistic expectations (and new joysticks), and I now I love it again. Although it's seriously flawed with the lack of tracks and content, but I do think it's one of the best racing games on the system (together with F-Zero X and Didy Kong Racing) and better than Mario Kart 64 which is just way too easy. Unlike in Mario Kart and F-Zero, Time Attack mode is actually fun. Mario Kart is more about items while F-Zero is about a large number of opponents, neither which exists in Time Attack. But in Wave Race 64 there are no items and only 4 opponents, and Time Attack is basically the same as Championship mode except without opponents, and also doubles like a practice mode. The game is actually quite similar to Wild Trax / Stunt Race FX which is another Nintendo racer I like. That one also has a bit lack of content though and is much easier.

Akari Hayami seems to be the little sister of Ryota in Wave Race 64. And I guess it's kind of obvious but doesn't anyone else think that Ayumi Stewart must be an ancestor to Dr Robert Stewart from F-Zero? Both are fragile acceleration masters with low top-speed and shares the same family name. Though Ayumi's first name hints that she is half-Japanese or something.

BTW I finally beat the final class, so I basically beat the game (didn't seem to unlock anything new though except all tracks in Time Attack and 2P). But I still haven't seen the penguin and the second killer whale calf yet, those are my current goal.
I've seen the first calf in a video where the player didn't finish first in all races, so it seems it's really a point requirement rather than a rank requirement. I guess the penguin is the same.

I saw the leading dolphin's new jumps. If you go into warming-up mode then exit and go in again the leading dolphin will do a backflip over the ramps.


I did some measurements to check if the characters' parameters are correct in the manual, and to get a bit more detailed information.
Testing was done on the unrevised Japanese version in Time Attack on Milky Lake normal class, with the jetski setting set to default. The stars are the parameters from the manual. Min top-speed is the top-speed when having zero power due to missing a buoy. Max top-speed is when power is maxed out. In Warming-up mode and Score Attack mode you always have power maxed out:


Ryota Hayami
Handling            ***
Grip                ****
Collision Stability ***
Maximum Speed       ****
Acceleration        ***
Min top-speed       102 km/h (85% of max)
Max top-speed       120 km/h

Ayumi Stewart
Handling            ****
Grip                ***
Collision Stability **
Maximum Speed       **
Acceleration        *****
Min top-speed       91 km/h (85.8490566% of max)
Max top-speed       106 km/h

Miles Jeter
Handling            *****
Grip                *
Collision Stability ***
Maximum Speed       ***
Acceleration        ***
Min top-speed       100 km/h (83.3333...% of max)
Max top-speed       120 km/h

Dave Mariner
Handling            *
Grip                **
Collision Stability ****
Maximum Speed       *****
Acceleration        **
Min top-speed       99 km/h (76.74418605...% of max)
Max top-speed       129 km/h


Ryota has the highest minimum top-speed and therefore suffers the least from missing a buoy (he is actually used by speedrunners on one Time Attack track due to this). I guess that is the only reason he has a whole star more than Miles in the Maximum Speed parameter. He is easy to use and is good in about any mode.

Ayumi suffers the least percent-wise from missing a buoy but her min top-speed is still lowest. She is best for beginners and Score Attack. Beating anything higher than hard with her is probably a real challenge due to her poor top-speed. Speedrunners never seems to use her.

Miles is probably the easiest character to beat the game with if you can learn to handle his sensitive steering. I guess he must be faster than Ryota in corners due to his low grip. He is also used by speedrunners on a few tracks in Time Attack.

Dave suffers the most from missing buoys and due to his slow acceleration is really unforgiving to mistakes. Like Ayumi, beating expert with him is probably very challenging although for the opposite reason. He is a poor choice in Score Attack where top-speed is less important.
He is the fastest character if you can handle him though, and is used by speedrunners (with engine set to maxed top-speed) on most tracks in Time Attack and in all Championship classes' speedruns.

I also tried to measure acceleration using a stop-watch but it's really hard as it's very small differences. I found that all maxes out their speed in about 6 seconds except Dave who takes about 7. Not sure why Ayumi has two whole stars more than Ryota and Miles. The speed curve up to max probably differs per character. I also tried measuring collision stability, but I couldn't get any consistency. It seems to be greatly affected by both speed and angle of the surface you collide with.
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Jedi QuestMaster
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« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2019, 04:34:27 AM »

Ayumi Stewart must be an ancestor to Dr Robert Stewart from F-Zero? Both are fragile acceleration masters with low top-speed and shares the same family name. Though Ayumi's first name hints that she is half-Japanese or something.
Who says you can't just have a Japanese name? Tongue Huh
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P
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« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2019, 12:33:36 PM »

Yeah maybe, Naomi also seems to be quite a common name in USA. I think I read somewhere that Ayumi was supposed to be Japanese American though.

Playing some more I think I know why Miles is faster than Ryota despite they having almost the same parameters in top-speed and acceleration. Although Miles have very sensitive steering (I put it on heaviest to make him a bit easier to use) it makes it possible to take really sharp turns with him at high speed which Ryota just can't do. I use a Hori Mini Pad, which is really a bit too sensitive and not recommended by speedrunners, but I don't feel like destroying any more 64-joysticks.

Speedrunners recommend the following jetski settings:

Ryota Hayami and Miles Jeter (on the few tracks they are recommended for in Time Attack):

Handling
Light               Heavy
|O| | | | | | | | | | | |

Engine
Dash            Top-speed
| | | | | | | | |O| | | |

Grip
Slip                 Grip
| | | | | | | | | | | |O|


Dave Mariner (all tracks):

Handling
Light               Heavy
| |O| | | | | | | | | | |

Engine
Dash            Top-speed
| | | | | | | | | | | |O|

Grip
Slip                 Grip
| | | | | | | | | | | |O|

Ayumi has no recommended setting as she isn't recommended in speedruns. I don't get why Ryota needs so much grip though. According to the manual grip just slows down overall speed, and you don't need that much grip anyway to take sharp turns. Likewise I don't see why Miles needs so light handling. Dave have two options for handling: either lightest or next-lightest like above, it's a matter of preference (also odd as he has the worst handling according to the manual).

A ton of info here that I have never heard of, save for the dolphins in training. I would rent this game and play mostly practice doing stunts and other stuff. I actually didn't like the main mode as a kid but need to replay this soon.

Have you ever played the Splashdown games? I rented them on PS2 in high school and thought they were very good. Weird thing on GameFAQs, the game comes up listed in PS4 so maybe the PS2 port is coming or maybe a remake? Bub
Yeah all FAQs and "cheat" guides that show up when you google Wave Race 64 all seems to just copy the same misinformation that has been out in gaming magazine since the game come out (30 laps for a killer whale etc). Gamefaq isn't much better either, I think this thread already contains about as much information as Gamefaq about this game.

Nope haven't played Splashdown but I've seen videos about it. I wished they used more waves like in Wave Race 64.

When we were kids, we got an N64 for Christmas in '96! Grin With no games. Sad First game we rented (or was rented for us) was Wave Race 64. Amazing graphics at the time, not so much now. Tongue But the water physics are still cool! Shocked
Yeah I think I haven't seen waves being used like in this game again. Diddy Kong racing did a good job copying the water physics but that game doesn't have big waves like in Wave Race 64 either. Even Blue Storm seems to be tame in this area.
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