If you worked on the Famicom/FDS...

[boye]

...what would you do?
I would add a cart passthrough in the RAM Adapter, so you wouldn't need to remove the RAM Adapter when you wanted to play a game on cart. Also, cart games could have some of the extra features of the RAM adapter. (FM Synthesis, extra RAM, etc.)

[80sFREAK]

[L___E___T]

 
Let's all be a bit nicer to each other please?

I am recognising the complaint that Boye is a bit spammy - Boye we love you but this is not without truth.  Don't be discouraged from posting, but check rule 2 as you're winding some of our longtime members up in fairness.

When Nintendodork was a regular poster here he went quite far too, but he skirted thew right side of the line and we even celebrated that enthusiasm with a custom title.  Thank you btw Nintendodork for that era, you're missed.

I definitely don't think we should be discouraging new members from getting involved, but sometimes too much disruption can shake the old guard and people get upset.  We all have a love for Famicom and FW is very welcoming.

Having said all that, I don't see anything wrong with this thread as such - i.e. having a dream wishlist of Famicom / FDS features?

Spoiler

- I think cart games already do have (and exceeded) the core FDS features even if they're a little different / varied.

- I would love for the Famicom to have had a digital download service through the modem, but it was really too early for that.

- My main wish would be for some sort of bolt-on that could allow for more sprites, if that were even possible.

- Arne's concept for the famicube I thought was a very nice little exploration for this kind of thing:
https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2016/05/26/the-famicube-concept-is-pretty-awesome/

[close]

[80sFREAK]

Spoiler

- I think cart games already do have (and exceeded) the core FDS features even if they're a little different / varied.

- I would love for the Famicom to have had a digital download service through the modem, but it was really too early for that.

- My main wish would be for some sort of bolt-on that could allow for more sprites, if that were even possible.

- Arne's concept for the famicube I thought was a very nice little exploration for this kind of thing:
https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2016/05/26/the-famicube-concept-is-pretty-awesome/

[close]

Sure  

1) Theoretically you can use sound extension, disk drive and IRQ. Memory - it is not backed by battery. Also you have to keep in mind power consumption of "extras". First(?) revision of FDS had 4 4416 IC's, each will take 200mW in operating mode and 17.5mW in standby mode.
2) Downloading 32K+ on 1200bps(or less) modem is kinda challenge, but BBS is more realistic(Mario club for HVC-050?). Using I/O port of FDS as a soft modem(IIRC most common modem on early computers)? Some discussion here
3) External PPU?

[boye]

2) Downloading 32K+ on 1200bps(or less) modem is kinda challenge, but BBS is more realistic(Mario club for HVC-050?). Using I/O port of FDS as a soft modem?

Having something that plugs into the RAM Adapter that allows you to download games from a server seems like the most plausible idea, especially since the Disk System had a large-ish install base, and carts were overtaking disks, it just makes sense for Nintendo to repurpose the RAM Adapter. This could also drive distribution prices even further than disks, since we all know, after a generation of online storefronts (PS Store, eShop, etc.) that digital distribution prices are much lower than physical distribution prices. In fact, I could see this being a mild success for Nintendo if they played their cards right.

[80sFREAK]

No, it's not. Before we continue this talk, could you please tell me about your first computer and cellphone 

[boye]

MY first PC was an IBM compatible from the mid-90s, and my first cellphone was a Motorola flip phone.  Yes, I'm that old.
Also, why would the RAM Adapter idea not be feasable? Low bandwidth?

[UglyJoe]

In fact, I could see this being a mild success for Nintendo if they played their cards right.

I think the Disk Writer kiosks made a lot more sense for the time period than some sort of primitive digital distribution.  Far easier infrastructure to manage and some similar benefits to modern digital distribution.

[80sFREAK]

MY first PC was an IBM compatible from the mid-90s, and my first cellphone was a Motorola flip phone.  Yes, I'm that old.
Also, why would the RAM Adapter idea not be feasable? Low bandwidth?

Cool story, but i have some doubts. Try to google cost of "online" services in the early 1986(FDS was on the market by the end of Feb 1986).

UJ, right, fast and easy.

[FAMICOM_87]

No, it's not. Before we continue this talk, could you please tell me about your first computer and cellphone  

My first PC was 486DX2 66MHz Cyrix 24MB ram 2GB HDD VGA 512KB Win 95 the mother board was from 1994 with AMI BIOS with GUI very cool ,but I got this configuration in late 2001 hahah amd my first GSM I got 2007 Sony Ericsson walkman 😁

[P]

I would add a cart passthrough in the RAM Adapter, so you wouldn't need to remove the RAM Adapter when you wanted to play a game on cart. Also, cart games could have some of the extra features of the RAM adapter. (FM Synthesis, extra RAM, etc.)

Yes having the disk system and cartridge slot available at the same time like a computer would nice.

Spoiler

- I think cart games already do have (and exceeded) the core FDS features even if they're a little different / varied.

- I would love for the Famicom to have had a digital download service through the modem, but it was really too early for that.

- My main wish would be for some sort of bolt-on that could allow for more sprites, if that were even possible.

- Arne's concept for the famicube I thought was a very nice little exploration for this kind of thing:
https://inceptionalnews.wordpress.com/2016/05/26/the-famicube-concept-is-pretty-awesome/

[close]

1) Theoretically you can use sound extension, disk drive and IRQ. Memory - it is not backed by battery. Also you have to keep in mind power consumption of "extras". First(?) revision of FDS had 4 4416 IC's, each will take 200mW in operating mode and 17.5mW in standby mode.
2) Downloading 32K+ on 1200bps(or less) modem is kinda challenge, but BBS is more realistic(Mario club for HVC-050?). Using I/O port of FDS as a soft modem(IIRC most common modem on early computers)? Some discussion here
3) External PPU?

2) Some kind of network support might need a modern ethernet device anyway.
3) Yeah I think the PPU have pins that allows for external video (VS Dual System might be using this) instead of the backdrop color (behind the background and all sprites). Connecting an external video chip then we can have any amount of extra sprites and backgrounds that it allows. I like the TMS9918 (or V9938 or V9958 would be even better), but it wouldn't really be a Famicom anymore.

[boye]

Maybe an external PPU could feed info to the PPU like this.

[80sFREAK]

2) Some kind of network support might need a modern ethernet device anyway.

we talking about 1986 or 2019?

3) Yeah I think the PPU have pins that allows for external video (VS Dual System might be using this) instead of the backdrop color (behind the background and all sprites). Connecting an external video chip then we can have any amount of extra sprites and backgrounds that it allows. I like the TMS9918 (or V9938 or V9958 would be even better), but it wouldn't really be a Famicom anymore.

Connect TMS99x8 to the Famicom is not the big deal(TMS9918, 2pcs 4416, couple ICs for decoding will fit big shell). Who will port the software?

@boye
borat.jpeg

[P]

we talking about 1986 or 2019?

2019.

Connect TMS99x8 to the Famicom is not the big deal(TMS9918, 2pcs 4416, couple ICs for decoding will fit big shell). Who will port the software?

The problem is that TMS99x8 isn't produced anymore, but is maybe easier to get than a second Famicom PPU without destroying a donor since it's originally an off-the-shellf video chip. I also saw that people have synthesized TMS9918 in FPGA.
Who will port the software? Whoever wants to make use of this hardware will have to learn to program for it. Information for TMS9918 is all over the internet, and it isn't terribly different from the Famicom's PPU. It is the video chip that coined the term "sprite" after all, and many believe that Nintendo's PPU was heavily inspired by it.


The TMS99x8 might be a bit disappointing since you get 1 extra background layer without hardware scrolling, and its sprites can only have one colour each. Overlaying sprites to give them more colours is also limited because the TMS99x8 only allows 4 sprites/scanline. V9938 on the other hand have vertical scrolling for the BG and allows 8 sprites/scanline like Nintendo's PPU, and V9958 also has horizontal scrolling in addition to that. Haven't seen any FPGA-synth of those two though.

Another problem might be that the colour generator of the PPU and TMS99x8/V9938/V9958 are a bit different so maybe it looks weird when mixing BG characters and sprites from both video chips.

[80sFREAK]

in 2019 i would choose ESP module instead of ethernet 

Lots of ICs are obsolete now, but still you can find NOS in various quantitites. Are you MSXer by the way?