F-Theta

Started by Ghegs, July 28, 2020, 11:29:42 am

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Ghegs

November 03, 2021, 11:51:43 pm #15 Last Edit: November 04, 2021, 12:16:18 am by Ghegs
Thanks for the help!

Quote from: P on November 03, 2021, 05:18:36 pmFor the first F-Theta secret it says that before the Stage 4 demo starts you should hold a certain button pressed and you will see something you are not supposed to see (!). This also works with the last demo at the ending.
The first screenshot shows when you should start holding the button. But it says that you have to discover which button yourself. On the second picture, the red text says something like "Just what what kind of changes will happen when you do this? You got to find out!" ...intriguing!

That screenshot is just before the race queen's bra snaps. Based on that, the hidden thing might be a nip slip, or it could be some joke, like she slaps the viewer or something. I'll try to figure it out today.

QuoteNow to the second F-Theta secret. It simply says that you can gain 5 seconds by pausing the game and entering a certain command. The number of times you can use this trick depends on how many tracks you have completed, so it might not really be a cheat. I'm not sure if it's the number of times per game or the number of times per track.
It says you have to figure out the command yourself again.

I guess you could try the Konami command (AKA the Konami code)?

Hmm. I'd still personally consider that a cheat, but a pretty cool thing anyway. I wonder if the remaining time has to be at 1 second for the code to work (like in that picture), or can it be done whenever?

QuoteSo it doesn't sounds like he minds if people dumps the ROM. Hopefully the ROM will show up some time. He also said that he will keep producing the cartridges until 2022 though.

Well that's neat, to both things. Hopefully he'll also make the cartridges more easily available for international purchasing. Columbus Circle uses Play-Asia to sell their products, I wonder why other JPN homebrew devs don't? Well, I guess Columbus Circle is just big enough that they can deal with Play-Asia, and it's not as easy for a single person who made a game in their spare time.

Ghegs

Quote from: Ghegs on November 03, 2021, 11:51:43 pm
Quote from: P on November 03, 2021, 05:18:36 pmFor the first F-Theta secret it says that before the Stage 4 demo starts you should hold a certain button pressed and you will see something you are not supposed to see (!). This also works with the last demo at the ending.
The first screenshot shows when you should start holding the button. But it says that you have to discover which button yourself. On the second picture, the red text says something like "Just what what kind of changes will happen when you do this? You got to find out!" ...intriguing!

That screenshot is just before the race queen's bra snaps. Based on that, the hidden thing might be a nip slip, or it could be some joke, like she slaps the viewer or something. I'll try to figure it out today.

I managed to uncover the secret on the first go, and even beat Skill Level 1 again. Hold down Select there, and instead of the race queen just barely managing to cover herself up when her bra snaps, she's a bit late and she's shown totally topless for a few frames. Too hot for Youtube!

"This also works with the last demo at the ending.", does that mean there's something hidden in the ending animation? I couldn't find anything, but maybe I just hit the button at the wrong moment.

P

I'm not 100% sure but my understanding was that being close to goal but having too little time to make it was an example of a situation when the trick is useful rather than a requirement for the trick to work. The text says nothing about 1 second left, it just says that there is no time. It also says that you should calculate when it's the most effective to use it (since use is limited) so that sounds to me even more like it can be used at any point in a race.

Good job finding the easteregg, I was also half expecting that it was a joke and that you would get a slap or something. Thanks for sharing it, this will come in handy for uh, studying the graphics engine!

Sorry my bad! I just noticed that I translated this part incorrectly: "This also works with the last demo at the ending." but it should have been something like: "This is the same for the last demo of the ending for skill level 2 as well."

Ghegs

Beat Skill Level 2 as well just now. The animations are the same in both, so nothing new to report there.

So I guess the only thing left to discover is the hidden code for time extension. I did try the Konami code but that didn't seem to be it.

I do wonder about the implications of that animation Easter egg, though. The animation has a "fork" where if you hold the button down at a specific moment it goes into path B instead of going the normal path A. Admittedly the difference is really small, only a couple of animation frames before it returns to the normal path. I wonder if this could be expanded, so you if you hold this button at a specific moment, you get one animation, but if you hold that button you get a completely different one.

Basically, could this animation engine be used to create a Dragon's Lair -like quick time event -game?

P

Quote from: Ghegs on November 05, 2021, 12:44:59 pmBeat Skill Level 2 as well just now. The animations are the same in both, so nothing new to report there.
I see, it wasn't entirely clear in the original text if it would show a new clip or not.


Quote from: Ghegs on November 05, 2021, 12:44:59 pmSo I guess the only thing left to discover is the hidden code for time extension. I did try the Konami code but that didn't seem to be it.
In that case I bet it's a much simpler code, since it's something players are supposed to discover themselves. Just one or two buttons or something. But on the other hand if you haven't discovered it yet it might not be that simple, hmm...


Quote from: Ghegs on November 05, 2021, 12:44:59 pmI do wonder about the implications of that animation Easter egg, though. The animation has a "fork" where if you hold the button down at a specific moment it goes into path B instead of going the normal path A. Admittedly the difference is really small, only a couple of animation frames before it returns to the normal path. I wonder if this could be expanded, so you if you hold this button at a specific moment, you get one animation, but if you hold that button you get a completely different one.
I have no clue, but you can experiment a bit and see if you find something.


Quote from: Ghegs on November 05, 2021, 12:44:59 pmBasically, could this animation engine be used to create a Dragon's Lair -like quick time event -game?
Technically yes of course. But then again there is a reason why those FMV games were always on CD or laserdisc systems. Long animations will take up a lot of space, so the game might have to be quite short. Data can be compressed and nowadays larger ROM chips are generally cheaper and more readily available than the smaller ROM chips used in most Famicom games, but it would be hard to compete with a 600 MB CD-ROM. Sampled speech is fully possible on a stock Famicom as you probably know, but it takes up a lot of ROM space despite being of so poor quality.
If we had something like the MSU-1 for the Famicom, where data is streamed from an SD-card, anything would be possible using the Famicom's powerful expansion audio and video capabilities from the cartridge side.

Ghegs

Quote from: P on November 05, 2021, 05:36:38 pm
Quote from: Ghegs on November 05, 2021, 12:44:59 pmI do wonder about the implications of that animation Easter egg, though. The animation has a "fork" where if you hold the button down at a specific moment it goes into path B instead of going the normal path A. Admittedly the difference is really small, only a couple of animation frames before it returns to the normal path. I wonder if this could be expanded, so you if you hold this button at a specific moment, you get one animation, but if you hold that button you get a completely different one.
I have no clue, but you can experiment a bit and see if you find something.

Ah, I meant if the concept could be expanded generally in other Famicom games, not in F-Theta in particular.

Thanks for the answer, I guess the size is the most restricting factor, then. And I just now remembered that Game Boy Color got a port of the arcade Dragon's Lair, rather than a platformer remake like most home consoles of the era.

Not that I'd be particularly interested in playing Dragon's Lair, but the idea of the game being ported and seeing all the "Some crazy person ported a LaserDisc game to NES" articles and videos online is amusing to me, like what happened when DOOM (sorta-kinda-not really but the console is involved a bit in there) got "ported" to NES.

P

Ah I see, I don't see any reason it shouldn't be possible.

Yeah that DOOM "port" is probably using the expansion video capabilities of the Famicom/NES. It's because video memory is stored on the cartridge instead of inside the console like on Game Boy, SFC and most other systems, so you can basically put a modern computer in a cartridge and stream it's video output via the Famicom PPU. The Famicom mostly just displays the picture, the muscle is all in the cartridge hardware. This kind of thing is not possible on the GB or SFC since video memory is internal.

Likewise, expansion audio allows you to stream CD-quality audio if you want and have some way of storing all the data on the cartridge. This is possible on the GB and the SFC, but the NES needs to be modded as you probably know.

So that's what I meant by anything is possible with the right cartridge hardware. It's very amusing as a proof of concept but most people also think it's kind of cheating as the Famicom isn't really doing much. The F-Theta way of doing it is far more interesting I think, although resolution and framerate is very limited.
Similar techniques can do things like raycasting. There's a cool MSX1 fangame called Tales of Popolon that uses this technique. It's impressive, but the MSX1 does have a pseudo-bitmap mode already while the Famicom/NES don't.

Ghegs

New tweet reveals that there's a US release of F-Theta in the works.

I wonder if they'll keep the nipple flash code.

P

That's good news! And in the comments to that post he also says that they are separately planning a European version. I hope it will be with the PAL hardware differences in mind.

Unless whatever distributor they have has any complaints, I spontaneously wouldn't think they would do any kind of censoring, but who knows.

Ghegs

NES version is suddenly available here

According to a (Google Translated) tweet from the dev, "...the only difference from the Japanese version is the era of the copyright on the title screen" so that's good.

P

That webpage is in Sweden. Is that the PAL version perhaps?

Ghegs

Not sure what you mean? The site is in English, Neodolphino Productions seems to be based in Pennsylvania, and the host bigcartel.com is in US/Canada.

Jedi Master Baiter

Quote from: P on February 01, 2023, 04:31:04 pmThat webpage is in Sweden. Is that the PAL version perhaps?
You mean based in Sweden? ??? Or do you mean it's in Swedish? Here's how it looks on my end:
You cannot see attachments on this board.


Has anyone bought from Neodolphino before? Is the quality good? Are the other games currently available worth checking out?

P

The IP was reported to be Swedish, but that is just the location of the server for the webpage, so it might not mean anything.

Ghegs

Quote from: Jedi Master Baiter on February 01, 2023, 11:34:15 pmAre the other games currently available worth checking out?

I have Haradius Zero (which isn't available on the site, but is the prequel to Haratyler and Haraforce) and it's not terribly interesting. Technically it's fine - looks decent enough, runs fast, no flickering, etc. but the gameplay is lacking. The same enemies and patterns keep repeating too often. Looking at some videos of Haratyler and Haraforce, this doesn't seem to have changed all that much. But maybe somebody who has played them properly can chip in.

UXO: Unexploded Ordnance is literally just Minesweeper. And nothing wrong with Minesweeper, but $30 (+ shipping) for Minesweeper is kind of a tall order.