Life After Death

[UglyJoe]

If you want to know about God and Satan, you definitely need to read the Good Book = Dragonball by Akira Toriyama.

Haha.  That reminds of the censored US version of DBZ. 

There was an episode where Goku was in Hell, and some of the demon guys were wearing t-shirts that said "HELL" on them.  Only, Americans are offended by Hell or something, so they edited every shot of the shirts so that they look like "HFIL" instead.  They explained this by making King Kai explain it as the "Home For Infinite Losers".

[manuel]

Wow, why do they come up with shit like that?
HFIL?

[MaxXimus]

God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell. At least this is what my Mom told me. She is VERY religious.

[FamicomFreak]

God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell. At least this is what my Mom told me. She is VERY religious.

oh yeah I read about that story....very interesting stuff. I used to be hunted down by christians back in high school until I finally decided to go to their meeting.

[133MHz]

God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.

But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?

[FamicomFreak]

God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.

But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?

Maybe it was the choice of his angels and eventually one back stab him like with Jesus and his followers because one of them sold him out even though Jesus knew about it. I don't read much about the bible but I remember that stuff.

[MaxXimus]

God "did" create Satan. He was a fallen Angel named Lucifer. Lucifer decided he could be better than God, so he challenged him. God then damned him to hell.

But if he is supposedly omniscient, why didn't he stop this situation from happening in the first place?

Free will.

He supposedly gave everyone a choice. We choose to live a life of faith and follow the path God wants us to follow, or we don't and in return are damned to an eternity of pain and suffering under the rule of Satan. What I don't understand is if God loved all his creatures as the bible states, then why would he put us through that?

I would also like to mention that I don't necessarily believe any of this. I just know a lot about it. It is actually kind of interesting.

[JC]

This stuff is interesting. I was raised Catholic and I've spent a heck of a lot of time thinking it all over. I've come to the conclusion that what you get from the Bible is a mix of real history, misunderstandings, and convenient lies. Who's doing the lying? People who want to use the Bible to justify that God is on their side (or, God is on the side of the moral, which just happens to be themselves).

As for the devil...people always put forth this idea of free will. But it's a sham. If God is all-knowing, then he knows the past, the present, and the future -- every detail of it. He knows what choice you will make before you make it. So, you don't have free will...it's all pre-determined. Now, if God isn't all-knowing, then free will is possible. But! a god that isn't all-knowing is a god that isn't all-powerful.

[NationalGameDepot]

what you get from the Bible is a mix of real history, misunderstandings, and convenient lies. Who's doing the lying? People who want to use the Bible to justify that God is on their side (or, God is on the side of the moral, which just happens to be themselves).

I couldn't agree more.  I say this to people all the time.  The bible is a good book of morals, nothing more nothing less.  No different than reading any other book. 

Hundreds of years ago people believed that the Greek Gods were the higher power and now pretty much anyone would laugh at you and think your crazy if you worshiped the Greek Gods today.  Who is to say in a few hundred more years that people won't think the same thing about God and Jesus of today.  You die, you decompose, and become some fungus, circle of life.

IMO religion for the most part is for people who need something to grasp onto to make them feel better about themselves.  Most very strong willed or scientific people do not believe in god or religion for my experiences.
~~NGD

[133MHz]

IMO religion for the most part is for people who need something to grasp onto to make them feel better about themselves.  Most very strong willed or scientific people do not believe in god or religion for my experiences.
~~NGD

Amen to that .

[UglyJoe]

As for the devil...people always put forth this idea of free will. But it's a sham. If God is all-knowing, then he knows the past, the present, and the future -- every detail of it. He knows what choice you will make before you make it. So, you don't have free will...it's all pre-determined. Now, if God isn't all-knowing, then free will is possible. But! a god that isn't all-knowing is a god that isn't all-powerful.

The problem with trying to apply logic to God is that God is the absolutely illogical ("the absurd").  God doesn't make sense. 

People have faith in all sorts of things (faith that a chair won't buckle under your weight, faith that locks on a door will ensure that it stays closed).  These kinds of faiths are justifiable for a number of reasons (you've sat in the chair before, nobody has been able to unlock the door without the key).  However, these justifications can fall apart (the chair does eventually buckle and break, the lock can be picked or you forgot to lock it).  Your faith in these things can falter because your justifications fall through. 

These kinds of faith are easy to have because you can justify them.  However, these justifications are never absolute.  This has always bothered me about science.  Scientific justifications, by their very nature, change.  Theories are constantly refined.  Science doesn't tell me how things work.  Science tells me how things appear to work at the current point in time using our best methods of observation.  This isn't a bad thing.  I mean, scientific theories are, of course, very very useful.  However, these are fleeting faiths. 

Justifications taint true faith.  Faith is believing in what can't be justified.  If your belief is partially justified, then you are only being partially faithful.  If your justifications fail and all that is left is faith, do you keep this faith or abandon it?  If you abandon it, was there ever a faith at all?

These partial faiths are not the kind of faith that I have in God.  God is utterly irrational.  There is no way to justify a faith in God.  And yet, I have faith in God.  Because there are no justifications for my faith, nothing can be said or done that will weaken this faith.  This is absolute faith, and this is exactly what Christianity is all about.

So, yes, what you said makes perfect logical sense.  There is a clear contradiction there.  I've thought about it myself quite a lot, actually.  I've concluded that since God is illogical, logic does not apply to him.  Logic dictates that God cannot be omniscient while at the same time grant us free will.  God dictates that He can.  I've tried to come up with solutions for how this is logically possible (humans are bound to logic, after all), and this is the best I've come up with.  Bear in mind that this isn't any kind of official explanation, it's just something I came up with while I was bored at college.  There is a theory (I forget the name) that for every action we make, there is a parallel universe in which we made a different choice.  My theory would be that God is aware of every one of these parallel universes.  We can make any decision we want, but He already knows what's going to happen, regardless of the choice.  So, not only does He know the past, present, and future, but also what could have been and what might be.  There are flaws to my theory, but it's best that I could come up with.

[JC]

Essentially what you're saying is: I believe because I believe. The justification is the belief, nothing more, and it's impossible to argue against that. In other words, I could say: I believe there's an invisible cat in the empty chair next to me. The cat sees all and knows all, and its very existence is chaotic. I dare you to prove me wrong; after all, the chair is empty.

And essentially you're saying: humans don't have the mental capacity to know God. And that means, any theory or definition of God is fabricated, since the true God is something we humans could never know. And it follows: any belief in God is false, because it would be entirely based on one's own (or an amassed) fabrication, not truth. And it follows: any action taken as a reaction to this God is also false, based on fabrication.

[UglyJoe]

Essentially what you're saying is: I believe because I believe. The justification is the belief, nothing more, and it's impossible to argue against that. In other words, I could say: I believe there's an invisible cat in the empty chair next to me. The cat sees all and knows all, and its very existence is chaotic. I dare you to prove me wrong; after all, the chair is empty.

The justification isn't belief.  There is no justification, just the belief.  If you want to believe in the invisible cat, go right on ahead.  I have no reason to try and disprove it.  And, hey, maybe it gives you comfort and it's telling you to live a moral life.  Why should I try and take that away from you?

And essentially you're saying: humans don't have the mental capacity to know God. And that means, any theory or definition of God is fabricated, since the true God is something we humans could never know. And it follows: any belief in God is false, because it would be entirely based on one's own (or an amassed) fabrication, not truth. And it follows: any action taken as a reaction to this God is also false, based on fabrication.

I agree that any attempt to fully define God would be futile.  However, a definition of God is not needed to have faith in God. 

[MarioMania]

thanks for the reply

Why do Ghosts stay in one place..like in a house

[UglyJoe]

Why do Ghosts stay in one place..like in a house

Maybe it's like when a character dies in Maniac Mansion.  You can still control them, but they can't interact with items.  So, they're stuck in a room until you have another character open the doors for them.