List of Famicom/NES game differences

Started by featherplucknfilms, September 08, 2006, 02:22:00 am

Previous topic - Next topic

P

July 02, 2014, 05:21:50 pm #150 Last Edit: July 03, 2014, 09:59:39 am by P
Hikari Shinwa: Paluthena no Kagami VS Kid Icarus
Some of these have been mentioned before (several times) in this thread, but this should also clear some misunderstandings.

-Hikari Shinwa uses three save slots while Kid Icarus uses passwords for saving.

-Hikari Shinwa has a High Score board. This is actually wrongly mentioned in the English manual even though it doesn't exist in the NES version.

-After beating Hikari Shinwa the game goes back to the file select screen and the high score board is updated. You can start a new game from the same file but you will start again from scratch.
After beating Kid Icarus you start over from the first level while keeping all your strengths and items. Since the Zeus valuation score is also not reset when this happens you can get a strength upgrade in the very first chamber in the game (revealing that it's actually a sacred chamber that's normally unusable). This also makes it possible to go past Arrow Strength 5 in Kid Icarus on the second run.

-In Hikari Shinwa you can haggle in shops by shouting into the microphone while in Kid Icarus you press A+B on Controller II.

-Some sound is different (due to Hikari Shinwa using the FDS extra sound channel), notably the cry of the grim reaper in Hikari Shinwa.

-The final stage in Hikari Shinwa doesn't have auto scrolling and it needs you to hold jump to fly (which makes Medusa a bit more difficult). Kid Icarus plays more like an auto scrolling shmup in the last stage and the terrain is just background, while you actually collide with it in Hikari Shinwa. Also some enemy patterns on this stage is different according to this source http://www.gamefaqs.com/nes/587380-kid-icarus/faqs/17485.

-Contrary to what was said before, the text in the ending is pretty much the same in both versions (although translated to English in Kid Icarus). In Hikari Shinwa the text is displayed directly above Pit and Parthena in the ending while in Kid Icarus the text is displayed on a separate black screen, after the screen with Pit and Palthena and before the staff roll starts. This is probably because English takes up more space so a separate screen was needed in order for everything to fit on screen.

-Hikari Shinwa has no staff roll at all (due to time constraints during the development). It was added to Kid Icarus though.

-The worst ending was removed in Kid Icarus and a new best ending was added. The requirements for the endings are also different:

In Hikari Shinwa add your Stamina level with your Arrow Strength together, and multiply them by 10. Then subtract 1 for each time you used CONTINUE (you can avoid using continues by choosing SAVE after dying and then reloading your file), then you get the ending according to this list (I made up the names):
<60 Specknose ending
60-79 Farmer ending
80-84 Soldier ending
85-99 Captain ending
100 Hero ending

In Kid Icarus the ending is based on how many of the following 4 things you maxed out:
999 hearts
Strength 5
Stamina 5
All three weapons (not the sacred treasures)

Then you get the ending according to this list:
0 Farmer ending
1 Soldier ending
2 Captain ending
3 Hero ending
4 Ultimate ending

Bob-Bob

That reminds me of a question I've had floating about for a while:

When you use the microphone to haggle, does it actually matter what you say or how loud you say it? Or could you just make any noise you want? How does the game determine if the prices get lowered or not?

Ghegs

Quote from: Bob-Bob on July 02, 2014, 06:36:15 pm
That reminds me of a question I've had floating about for a while:

When you use the microphone to haggle, does it actually matter what you say or how loud you say it? Or could you just make any noise you want? How does the game determine if the prices get lowered or not?


The microphone is just a simple binary on/off thing. It either detects sound or it doesn't, that's it. So I'm guessing as long as you make a noise at the right moment, the game will qualify that as haggling.

Likewise, the karaoke part in Takeshi no Chousenjou can be beaten by  just humming at the right moments, you don't need to actually sing the lyrics.
My videos
Rolling Start!! - Arcade Racing Game Forum

Bob-Bob

Has anybody figured out the exact timing for those? It would be nice to know.  ;D

P

February 02, 2019, 04:33:35 am #154 Last Edit: April 03, 2020, 02:15:52 am by P
Dragon Quest 1 and Dragon Warrior 1 differences
Everything that applies to Famicom version of DQ might also apply to the MSX version of DQ as it is seemingly identical mechanics-wise. Even the passwords are cross-compatible between Famicom and MSX versions. Many things do not apply to remakes however, as some characters have been removed or been given different roles.



Saving
DQ uses long passwords (known as the "fukkatsu juumon" which means resurrection spell) retrieved from the king, while DW uses Nintendo's MMC1 mapper that allows battery backup RAM for saving, similar to DQ III which was already released when DW was made.
In DW it's also done by talking to the king but this time it is recorded in the "imperial scrolls of honor".
DW seems to save more data than DQ does. DQ has 5 flags:
  -dragon scale equipped flag (used since there are no accessory equipment slots)
  -warrior's ring equipped flag (used since there are no accessory equipment slots)
  -marsh cave dragon boss defeated flag (prevents dragon to reappear if already defeated)
  -golem boss defeated flag (prevents golem to reappear if already defeated)
  -death necklace obtained flag (prevents getting more than one of this item)
DW on the other hand has a total of 12 flags in the save file. Among the new flags are the rainbow bridge flag and the hidden stairs flag. In DQ you have to make these reappear each time you resurrect a game from password (which really is trivial).



Character creation
Both DQ and DW uses an extremely simple character creation where the only thing you do is enter the hero's name. The name will however affect initial stats and decide one of 4 different stat growth types. DQ only allows 4 character names, but as the Latin alphabet needs more space DW has upgraded to 8 characters. However it will be shortened to 4 characters in the menu and still only the first 4 characters plays a role in the stat generating. The characters are different as DQ uses hiragana only while DW uses lower and upper case Latin alphabet and some special characters. But the total characters are almost the same, and they are used in the same way for the stat generating.
Both games generates the stats by a simple algorithm that involves looking up values in tables in the ROM. The table values for initial stats have been tweaked a little in DW, and the 4 stat growth types has also shifted a step.



Map Tiles
DW has added shorelines to the water tiles.



Sprites
In DQ, each character only has one facing direction in their sprite animation (similar to the Ultima games DQ was inspired from), so when using the talk command one has to specify the direction (north, south, east or west) one wants to talk in.
DW received updated character sprites for everyone with four facing directions like in later DQ games, and talk works automatically in the current facing direction.



Some name differences (DQ - DW):
Roto/Loto - Erdrick
King Lars - King Lorik
King Lars XVI - King Lorik XVI
Princess Lora/Laura - Princess Gwaelin
Dragonking (Ryuu-ou) - Dragonlord
Mutsuheta - Mahetta*
Miyaou - ?? (doesn't say his name in DW)**
Yuutei - ?? (doesn't say his name in DW)**
Lord Kim - Nester**
Chun - Orwick**
Yoshiriin - Howard**
Yukinofu - Wynn**
Radatoomu/Ladutorm - Tantegel (castle) and Brecconary (town)
Dragonking's castle (no specific name) - Charlock Castle (Charlock Island is also a term made up by the localizers)
Garai - Garinham (town) and Garin (person)
Maira - Kol
Rimuldaar - Rimuldar (only town name that wasn't changed)
Domudoora - Hauksness
Merukido/Melkid - Cantlin
chimera wings (kimera no tsubasa) - wyvern wings (the chimera enemy is also wyvern)
holy water (seisui) - fairy water (or sometimes magic water in the manual)
iron axe (tetsu no ono) - hand axe
steel sword (hagane no tsurugi) - broad sword
iron armour (tetsu no yoroi) - half plate
steel armour (hagane no yoroi) - full plate
leather shield (kawa no tate) - small shield
iron shield (tetsu no tate) - large shield
mikagami shield (mikagami no tate) - silver shield***
death necklace (shi no kubikazari) - cursed necklace

*Mutsuheta/Mahetta is the prophet that predicts the appearance of Loto's descendant and is, as far as I know, only mentioned in the manual in both DQ and DW (his name doesn't exist in the ROM), but it is possible that he is one of the unnamed wise old men in the game. Perhaps the priest in the castle or the one that restores your MP, or maybe the seer in Rimuldar.
Apparently he finally makes a real in-game appearance for the first time, name and all, in Dragon Quest Builders which takes place after the bad ending of DQ1. This time the English localization changed him to Myrlund (sounds like a Swedish surname to me).

**Miyaou (ミヤ王), the red warrior in Garai/Garinham that is looking for Lord Kim/Nester is really the developer Hiroshi Miyaoka (宮岡寛) that made an in-game appearance.
Yuutei (ゆう帝), a warrior in Maira/Kol is also looking for Lord Kim/Nester. He is really Yuji Horii (堀井雄二) himself. The father of the Dragon Quest series.
Lord Kim (キム皇 (キムこう)), the lost boy, is in Melkid and is really Kimura Hajime (木村初) who, while not listed in the credits, showed up on meetings during development of DQ 1 and is credited for naming the wind mantle in DQ II. All three people were members of Jump's game corner "Famicom shinken" and their nicknames make other appearances as well. For example as hero names in screenshots in the DQ II manual and also in a famous DQ II password.
Nester is a mascot character in NOA's Nintendo Power.
Chun/Orwick is the guy who messed up his date in Rimuldar. Chun is the name of the mascot of Chunsoft (the company that developed DQ together with Enix) and the hero in Door Door. It also seems to be a nickname of Kooichi Nakamura (中村光一, Chunsoft's president and creator of Door Door). I have no idea if Orwick refers to someone.
Yoshiriin/Howard is the old man in Rimuldar that previously had the flute. His name also sounds like he is someone involved in the development, but there are no official statement who it is. It's likely to be programmer Yoshida "YOSHILIM" Kouji (吉田幸司) though. Howard was the name of Nester's partner in NOA's Nintendo Power comics. He is in turn based on Howard Phillips, a spokesman of Nintendo of America.
Yukinofu/Wynn is the shopowner that is said to be the latest owner of Loto's armour. He is thought to be the game's producer Yukinobu Chida (千田幸信).

***Supposedly the mikagami shield is made of mithiril that has been polished to a mirror sheen and is able to "deflect attacks like water". Figures mithril are often translated to silver in old RPGs. Mikagami (水鏡) means reflecting water surface. In fact most item translations are not really lying in DW. For example the small shield's description in the manual accurately describes it as being made from cow and sheep hide just like the Japanese version, so in that context it's clear that it's supposed to be a leather shield after all, even though the game just calls it a small shield.


Spell name differences:
Hoimi - Heal
Gira - Hurt*
Lalihoo - Sleep
Remiira - Radiant
Mahotoon - Stop Spell
Riremito - Outside
Ruura - Return
Toherosu - Repel
Behoimi - Healmore
Begirama - Hurtmore*

*Gira/Hurt is described as a fire spell shot from the fingertips in both Japanese and English manuals, but is localized as Hurt since it's the only spell that causes damage in this game. In later games it is localized as "Firebal" though since there are many types of damaging spells. It's "Sizz" in modern localizations. Although Begirama/Hurtmore is of the same spell family, it is described as a spell that shoots out lightning from the fingertip like a blade, so a thunder spell. In later games it's localized as Firebane (Sizzle in modern localizations) which suggests a firespell, but the manual description is still that of a thunder blade. In DQ3 the whole Gira family is a thunder spell family including Gira, because the Mera (Blaze in DW3 and Frizz in modern localizations) family takes over the role as the basic fire spell family. In later games (including all remakes), the whole Gira family is retconned into a pure fire spell family that mainly differs from Mera in that it hits a whole group of enemies and that it produces a flash of light. The exception is the DQ Monster series where it's a light elemental spell family.


Monsters:
Slime (suraimu) - Slime
Slime-beth (suraimubesu) - Red Slime*
Metal Slime (metarusuraimu) - Metal Slime
Drakee (dorakii) - Drakee
Mage Drakee (meijidorakii) - Magidrakee
Magician (mahoutsukai) - Magician
Wizard (madoushi) - Warlock
Archmage (daimadou) - Wizard
Great Scorpion (oosasori) - Scorpion
Iron Scorpion (tetsu no sasori) - Metal Scorpion
Death Scorpion (shi no sasori) - Rogue Scorpion
Meda (meeda) - Druin
Medalord (meedaroodo) - Druinlord
Drol (dororu) - Droll
Drol Mage (dororumeiji) - Drollmagi
Ghost (goosuto) - Ghost
Metro Ghost (metorogoosuto) - Poltergeist
Hell Ghost (herugoosuto) - Specter
Chimera (kimera) - Wyvern
Mage Chimera (meijikimera) - Magiwyvern
Star Chimera (sutaakimera) - Starwyvern
Skeleton (gaikotsu) - Skeleton
Lycant (rikanto) - Wolf
Lycant-mamul (rikantomamuru) - Wolflord**
Killer Lycant (kiraarikanto) - Werewolf
Armor Knight (yoroi no kishi) - Knight
Demon Knight (akuma no kishi) - Axe Knight
Deathgod Knight (shinigami no kishi) - Armored Knight
Skeleton (gaikotsu) - Skeleton
Wraith (shiryou) - Wraith
Wraith Knight (shiryou no kishi) - Wraith Knight
Shadow Knight (kage no kishi) - Demon Knight
Goldman (goorudoman) - Goldman
Golem (gooremu) - Golem
Stoneman (sutoonman) - Stoneman
Dragon (doragon) - Dragon
Keith Dragon (kiisudoragon) - Blue Dragon***
Dearth Dragon (daasudoragon) - Red Dragon ****

*The "besu" suffix is unclear what it means. One theory is that it's "beth" (AKA "bet") the second letter in the Hebrew alphabet (related to the Greek beta). This letter also has the meaning of "two" so it could mean something like "Slime 2" in the sense of a slightly stronger slime than the original one. In later games Slime-besu are localized as She-Slime instead of Red Slime, hinting that it's simply a female Slime. Slalin (Rocket in English), the main character in the Morimori Slime series of games, has a little sister Slami (Bo in English) who is a Slime-besu. Possibly originating from this take of it.
**Lycant is short for lycanthrope which is another word for werewolf. The "mamuru" suffix is a bit unclear but it's believed to come from the English word "mammal" (possibly a mistake).
***It's unclear what the "kiisu" prefix is supposed to be. If it's "keith", it's of Celtic origin and means forest. It's also a given name in English-speaking countries.
****The prefix "daasu" is unclear but one interpretation is "dearth" which is another word for shortage or famine, and makes sense because it refers the evil dragon's endless hunger, or possibly to the destruction it may cause. It could also simply be "darth" stolen from "Darth Vader" which means "Dark Lord" in Star Wars language.




Manual
The backstory of the manual is very similar between the two, but there are some small changes:
In DQ it says that Loto got the the ball of light from the gods, while in the DW manual, Erdrick got it from a "friend". No further explanation who this friend is.

The rest of the manual is almost identical except for the item and spell name changes, and Toriyama's illustrations that was replaced by a more western fantasy style in the DW manual (this was before the worldwide Dragon Ball boom I guess).

Manual scans of the Japanese and English manuals including a fan-translated version of the Japanese one are available at Dragon's Den.
https://www.woodus.com/den/games/dw1nes/



NPC dialogue
Most dialogue is quite accurately translated, except that in DW everyone are speaking old English. Royalty (the king, princess and Dragonking) and old men do speak in an archaic way in DQ as well though, so it's not that inaccurate after all.

However there are some notable changes:

Puff-puff girl / tomato lady
A girl in Rimuldar offers the hero puff-puff for 50 gold (it's just a line of dialogue though, you can't actually get any in DQ1). This is the first instance of the long running puff-puff gag in DQ games which also appears in Toriyama's Dragon Ball manga and anime.
In DW she instead says that she doesn't have any tomatoes today. NOA naturally censored it due to the mildly erotic nature of this gag (look it up, it could be mildy NSFW though). In most games it is censored as fortune-telling, massage or "pufpuf therapy". But apparently tomato is jargon for a prostitute in English, so it might be a attempt to maintain the adult nature of it while still censoring it, I don't know.
BTW puff-puff isn't Japanese onomatopoeia like what some sources claims, it is English/Germanic onomatopoeia. It's the sound of air gushing out when for example softly squeezing something large and soft together (so not only when smoking). I'm baffled by this ignorance. In Japanese it became pafupafu (ぱふぱふ or パフパフ) because it's borrowed from the English word and therefore has an approximation of the the English pronunciation.

Warrior's/Fighter's Ring
The only apparent effect this ring have is the dialogue of a certain NPC in Melkid. Quite odd as it actually wastes one of the 5 flags in the password to save the ring's equip state. As there are no accessory equip slot in DQ1/DW1 it is equipped the same way as the dragon scale, by "using" it, and the only way to unequip it is to sell it (it can be gotten back from the same chest again though).
In DQ before equipping the ring, the man in Rimuldar says that this is a ring that suits a warrior. Then when equipping it he comments on how an embarrassing guy you are wearing a ring like that. What a hypocrite!
In DW before equipping it the same man says that every fighter should have a ring. And when equipping it he thinks you are married. Dull joke.

Upset girl
In the locked building in Garai/Garinham there is an upset girl that says that she hates men in DQ, while in DW she says "I hate people! Go! leave me!".

Rich merchant
In the same building there is a merchant surrounded by treasure chests. In DQ he says something like "Eei take this! Thief!" like he is trying to fight you off from stealing his treasures. In DW he instead says "I suggest making a map if thy path leads into the darkness." and doesn't seem to mind you stealing at all. I guess they wanted to add this hint to the player somewhere.

Game trading girl
In DQ, a girl near the temple in Melkid/Cantlin wants to trade her Portopia for the hero's Dragon Quest game.
In DW she simply says "I know nothing". Boring!
BTW Portopia is an older adventure game made by Yuji Horii before he got permission to make an RPG.

House wife
A woman in a house in Melkid/Cantlin thinks aloud what side dish to make to go with the dinner in DQ, while in DW she just wonders what to make for dinner in general. Just a very small difference.

Old monk
In DQ, the old man in the temple garden in Melkid/Cantlin says that you should talk to the elder that lives in the temple. In DW however he just says that you should see a man in this very town, not mentioning that he is in the very same temple you are standing in.

Elder
The elder in the Melkid temple and the priest in the Ladutorm church both uses the word "pray" in DQ, while in DW the term "wish" is preferred. They both say: "Let us wish the warrior well! May the light be thy strength" in DW. Looks like classic NOA religion censoring at work. Otherwise the dialogue is very similar.


Dragonking/Dragonlord
If accepting his offer he will say the same thing in both versions except for one detail. In DQ he offers a resurrection spell (password) like King Lars does (all DQ kings and priests seems to be able to offer game saving services, including the bad ones).
In DW however there are no passwords, and he says "and... If thou dies I can bring thee back for another attempt without loss of thy deeds to date", but he never actually revives you.



Bad ending
In DQ, if the bad ending is reached you will get the mentioned password and then the screen will turn red and then the game locks up. Resurrecting from the password will start a new game with the same character on level 1 and without any items or gold. Since it is not possible to see the prologue when restoring the game from a password, the chests with the king's fundings in Ladutorm throne room are already gone, forcing you to fight naked until you can afford any weapons or armor. And since you don't even have gold to stay at the inn you might have no choice but to die and get revived until you have enough. Talk about cruel resurrection spell. The password is not hardcoded though, it's just a normal password generated using your name and with zero items, gold, exp and cleared flags.
In DW you will loose all gold and experience points and the screen turns red and locks up. No "new game minus".



I found a delocalization patch for DW which can be used to see most of these things in English. It retranslates DQ into English without the censoring and even degrades things like NPC sprites. Since it's DW-based you get the good stuff like battery backup memory as well.
http://www.romhacking.net/hacks/4275/
There's one for DW II as well.

Update!
DQ1 has finally been fan translated here!