Help with Family Basic & question about 2nd controller mic

[UglyJoe]

Yup, glad you have it working now.

Btw, I'm not sure if the name really matters or not.  I've started leaving the field blank -- you can just hit enter to get past the prompt

[Frank_fjs]

You are correct, in that the name doesn't matter. Would have been handy if the name was unique though, that way you could save multiple programs if you catch my drift.

Still handy though, at least now I can work on a program and pick up where I left off. Once completed or if I want to start something new, I can just save to my PC via recording the output.

Not sure why it wasn't working for me before then, perhaps you need to exit via the SYSTEM command for it to save.

Have you tried the music editor? It was more simplistic than I was expecting but at least it's easy to use and doesn't require reading of Japanese text.

[UglyJoe]

Would have been handy if the name was unique though, that way you could save multiple programs if you catch my drift.

Not nearly enough memory available for that kind of feature.  I agree, though, that it would be nice

Not sure why it wasn't working for me before then, perhaps you need to exit via the SYSTEM command for it to save.

Yes, you have to exit back to the menu.  If you just turn it off at the BASIC screen, you'll lose everything.

Have you tried the music editor? It was more simplistic than I was expecting but at least it's easy to use and doesn't require reading of Japanese text.

Yeah, it's pretty nice.  I like that it plays the notes as you enter them -- makes composition a lot easier.

[Frank_fjs]

This bit of translation from P makes sense now too:

*When the BASIC programs data: Calculator, Music, Message Name Board are executed they will unfortunately disappear (Translator's note: I guess the backed up data?). What is more, if the Calculator, Music, and the Message Name Board Screen's data are executed in BASIC Mode it will also disappear.

Basically, you can only save in Basic OR in any of the built in apps, it's one or the other and saving to one overwrites the other.

That switch still has me intrigued, as if you read the translation given by P it does seem to suggest that you need to slide it to the ON position to save.

In case of backing up BASIC programs, please close the GAME BASIC Mode and when the Start Screen shows up, put the back up switch to ON

Strange, as it works without touching the switch so who knows what they're on about there.

I have to say, the Basic set is the best thing I've purchased for the Famicom! Having so much fun with it.

[P]

You mean it saves even if you never set it to ON? I might have missunderstood what they meant to say...

This is the message the manual is talking about, cut out from UglyJoe's pics (sorry I'm on a Linux machine that can't type Japanese now):

It says that one should set the switch to ON if one wants the data to remain. This is the message that doesn't show up in GAME BASIC Mode.
But after it is done saving it should tell you to turn it OFF again but it doesn't does it?

Oh now I want a Family Basic! Hahaha!

[fredJ]

I have one for sale... have been waiting for someone to appreciate it... (domestic shipping only)

[P]

Well I always wanted one but I've been thinking to get an FDS first. Also I'm not sure if I should get one with V. 3 or not as it seem to be hard to find separately.
Does the V. 2 have anything the V. 3 doesn't?

By the way I just noticed something on that other manual page. Apparently there is a quick method to access the GAME BASIC Mode from the Start screen (although I don't know what GAME BASIC Mode is):
Let the backup switch be set to ON and hold the "T" key while pressing RESET and then releasing the "T" key. Since we now are in GAME BASIC Mode we should set the switch to OFF again.

[UglyJoe]

Well I always wanted one but I've been thinking to get an FDS first. Also I'm not sure if I should get one with V. 3 or not as it seem to be hard to find separately.
Does the V. 2 have anything the V. 3 doesn't?

In V3, the whole "computer" GUI is gone, as well as the calculator, notepad, and music composer.  When you turn on V3, it takes you straight to the BASIC prompt.  On the plus side, it has three built-in games, twice the available memory, and a handful of new useful commands.

By the way I just noticed something on that other manual page. Apparently there is a quick method to access the GAME BASIC Mode from the Start screen (although I don't know what GAME BASIC Mode is):
Let the backup switch be set to ON and hold the "T" key while pressing RESET and then releasing the "T" key. Since we now are in GAME BASIC Mode we should set the switch to OFF again.

Oh man, thank you.  I've been looking for a way to bypass that stupid computer GUI ever since I got the cart!  This also makes one instance where you'll want to use the backup switch, since if you leave it in the OFF position and do this, you'll lose your data.  (Also, GAME BASIC mode is just BASIC mode).

[80sFREAK]

I have one for sale... have been waiting for someone to appreciate it... (domestic shipping only)

How much?
Post Merge: July 29, 2012, 01:39:06 am

Well I always wanted one but I've been thinking to get an FDS first. Also I'm not sure if I should get one with V. 3 or not as it seem to be hard to find separately.
Does the V. 2 have anything the V. 3 doesn't?

In V3, the whole "computer" GUI is gone, as well as the calculator, notepad, and music composer.  When you turn on V3, it takes you straight to the BASIC prompt.  On the plus side, it has three built-in games, twice the available memory, and a handful of new useful commands.

By the way I just noticed something on that other manual page. Apparently there is a quick method to access the GAME BASIC Mode from the Start screen (although I don't know what GAME BASIC Mode is):
Let the backup switch be set to ON and hold the "T" key while pressing RESET and then releasing the "T" key. Since we now are in GAME BASIC Mode we should set the switch to OFF again.

Oh man, thank you.  I've been looking for a way to bypass that stupid computer GUI ever since I got the cart!  This also makes one instance where you'll want to use the backup switch, since if you leave it in the OFF position and do this, you'll lose your data.  (Also, GAME BASIC mode is just BASIC mode).

Just wonder, if Family Basic is integer?

[P]

As in it's restricted to only be able to work with integers for all variables? Then I guess it is, as all numerical values seems to become 16-bit integers.

In V3, the whole "computer" GUI is gone, as well as the calculator, notepad, and music composer.  When you turn on V3, it takes you straight to the BASIC prompt.  On the plus side, it has three built-in games, twice the available memory, and a handful of new useful commands.

Oh I guess I need both versions then. I have never seen the keyboard without the V2 anyway. So I take it these apps are only for entertainment and to make it look more like a computer. I initially thought the Music Board was used for making music to your games you make but now you can't save it to tape. They are not sample programs made in BASIC like the games in V3.0?
BTW I saw on wikipedia that there are V2.0 and V2.1 does anyone know the differences and how to tell which version you have?

Oh man, thank you.  I've been looking for a way to bypass that stupid computer GUI ever since I got the cart!  This also makes one instance where you'll want to use the backup switch, since if you leave it in the OFF position and do this, you'll lose your data.  (Also, GAME BASIC mode is just BASIC mode).

I'm glad my translation finally was useful. I get the feeling that they sometimes just makes things more confusing, haha!

[UglyJoe]

Just wonder, if Family Basic is integer?

It uses 16-bit signed integers.  It does not do any floating point operations (that I am aware of).  Technically, though, with the POKE and CALL commands, you can write and call your own 6502 assembly methods.  If you really wanted to, I suppose you could code your own floating point library (but with such limited memory, not fit much else...).

edit: I just checked, and the "Calculator Board" feature of 2.1 does print out floating point results.

BTW I saw on wikipedia that there are V2.0 and V2.1 does anyone know the differences and how to tell which version you have?

I am not sure what the differences are.  I know there are version of the manual that are missing the CALL command, but the command is callable in 2.0.  As for determining what version you have, when you start up BASIC, the message at the top of the screen will tell you what version you have ("NS-HUBASIC V2.1A").

[Frank_fjs]

By the way I just noticed something on that other manual page. Apparently there is a quick method to access the GAME BASIC Mode from the Start screen (although I don't know what GAME BASIC Mode is):
Let the backup switch be set to ON and hold the "T" key while pressing RESET and then releasing the "T" key. Since we now are in GAME BASIC Mode we should set the switch to OFF again.

THANK YOU!!! This is so very, very handy!

Re the switch, with the exception of performing the T/RESET combo I've never had to turn it on to save data, from either Basic or any of the bundled applications (such as the music program for example). You can only save for one of these things though - i.e. you can save your code in Basic, but if you then proceed to save something in the music editor the Basic code you saved earlier will be cleared, and vice versa.

If you leave the switch on in Basic mode, you can't really do much as it appears to begin reading code that's stored on the cart, I think it might be the code for the startup screen and other programs. So you can't list any new code that you write or execute it, and the manual is correct that you receive no warning about this. Also, if you leave the switch on whilst in the main menu, you do indeed receive that message (the one you pictured) and can't proceed any further until you turn the switch off.

P.s. learning about this T/RESET trick makes me wonder how many other useful features we've yet to discover. Might experiment with random buttons and reset combos to see if anything else happens. I've found an English translation of the Basic manual online, will have to find the time to download it and have a read through it.

[UglyJoe]

I've found an English translation of the Basic manual online, will have to find the time to download it and have a read through it.

That only translates the latter part of the book.  Still, lots of good stuff in the translation.

[Frank_fjs]

Yeah, I noticed some pages missing. This is the one I'm looking at: http://volunteers.playpower.org/photo/photo/search?q=family

[P]

edit: I just checked, and the "Calculator Board" feature of 2.1 does print out floating point results.

I am not sure what the differences are.  I know there are version of the manual that are missing the CALL command, but the command is callable in 2.0.  As for determining what version you have, when you start up BASIC, the message at the top of the screen will tell you what version you have ("NS-HUBASIC V2.1A").

So the calculator are using floats with 6502 assembly or do the V2.1 support floating points?
If not then most likely V2.1 is mostly a bug fix, manual correction and said update of the calculator.

P.s. learning about this T/RESET trick makes me wonder how many other useful features we've yet to discover. Might experiment with random buttons and reset combos to see if anything else happens. I've found an English translation of the Basic manual online, will have to find the time to download it and have a read through it.

I didn't see anything more interesting in those pages that UglyJoe uploaded. The rest was mostly really basic stuff (how to insert the cartridge etc) and stuff you already know (how to type in commands in the GUI or use the F-keys etc). But I only took a quick look, I'm going to check it out more thoroughly later when I have more time.
Oh yeah that project claims to be complete but it isn't is it? Too bad the download link isn't working so we have to download each page manually.

By the way do anyone have the complete Japanese manual scanned? I wouldn't mind to take a look at it and see if there are anything useful there. I found the V3 manual here on the forum but not V2.