Using PAL Gamecube in the states.

Started by ulera, September 29, 2012, 09:58:48 am

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ulera

So I recently had a birthday an have been using my birthday money to upgrade my HDTV in my room into an RGB gaming device. Since the NTSC cube does not support RGB out or componant (for a reasonable price, the official cable is to expensive) I was wondering if it would be practical to import a PAL gamecube. I just had a few questions I couldn't find the answer to.

1. I know NTSC resolutions aren't the same as PAL, but if I use a freeloader to launch an NTSC games in a PAL system will the signal that gets pushed through the cable be NTSC?

2. Will my NTSC Gameboy player and memory cards work?

3. Will an NTSC power brick work on it or will I need a PAL brick and a stepdown converter?

P

September 29, 2012, 01:02:30 pm #1 Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 06:44:29 am by P
1. I don't think so. Your TV might have to support PAL. Edit: Oops what am I saying! If you play an NTSC game the signal would also be NTSC. Edit2: OK that's probably wrong. I shouldn't talk about things I don't fully understand lol. The PAL GameCube might not output NTSC (but I can't test it).

2. I'm pretty sure all hardware is region free (but I can't swear on it) and of course Gameboy Advance games are region free too so no problem there. However the Gameboy Player Boot Disc is region coded so you would have to use a freeloader or something.

Some games wants you to reformat the memory card if it finds Japanese save files on the card when you use an English language game or vice versa but there shouldn't be any problem with US and Euro save files coexisting AFIK and the memory card itself is region free.

3. Just to be safe check with your GameCube AC Adapter. My PAL one outputs 12V DC 3.25A + --(=|-- - (by this I mean that the plus is on the rounded side and minus on the straight side).
Europe use 220-230V so you would need a step-up converter, not a step-down if you wanted to use the included AC Adapter.

ulera

Great. I think I'll start looking into importing one. A freeloader shouldn't be hard to come by either.

P

It might be a good idea to check on freeloader compatibility first. I think they released updated revisions as new games came out so you may want one that can play your games.

ulera

I was thinkingnof getting a datel action replay.

133MHz

My recommendation would be a XenoGC. Easy to install, straightforward to use, compatible with everything I've thrown at it.

Quote from: P on September 29, 2012, 01:02:30 pm
If you play an NTSC game the signal would also be NTSC.


When I play PAL games on my DOL-001 NTSC GameCube (without selecting 60Hz mode) it doesn't output a proper PAL signal so I get no color even if the TV supports PAL. It seems that it actually outputs PAL-M at 50Hz which is completely insane on so many levels (I'm not 100% sure but it looks like that's the case). Does the PAL GameCube really output a proper NTSC signal for US/JP games or is it just 4.43 PAL at 60Hz?

ulera

I'd prefer a disk based freeloader, not something I have to mod.

I have no idea about the resolution though... anyone with a Pal gamecube availible to test?

untinip

According to this page:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/gamecube/915781-gamecube/faqs/34663

QuoteHOW TO USE: Hold down 'B' while starting the GameCube. If the game supports
60Hz, it will ask if you want to use it. Choose 'Yes'.


But I think this is for PAL-games that support 60Hz, not NTSC-games. I suppose NTSC-games will automatically set the correct framerate...

Further:
QuoteIf you have a PAL GameCube, it is possible to use NTSC's picture system, with
reduced resolution, but higher frame rate. This mode, commonly called PAL60,
is essentially the same as NTSC but with PAL's improved colour system.
Remember, however, that S-Video, RGB SCART and component do NOT use PAL or
NTSC's colour systems. So, why would you want to use PAL60? In the early days
of video gaming, games made for 60Hz were usually poorly converted to 50Hz for
Europe. They were left with large borders, an incorrect aspect ratio, and
normally slower gameplay than their 60Hz counterparts. Most PAL GameCube games
are optimised for 50Hz though so they run at the correct speed and aspect ratio
(and indeed with higher resolution than their NTSC counterparts). So, the days
of using 60Hz mode to play games at their intended speed and aspect ratio are
basically gone. However, there can be benefits to having an increased frame
rate (at the cost of resolution), particularly in fast-paced games like racing
games. Smoother motion should be seen in games like this (and the reduction in
resolution won't be noticable except on larger TVs).


I interpret this as the Gamecube is capable of outputting PAL60, which is NTSC-resolution and framerate, but the color encoding is of the PAL-standard. If I understand you correctly, you'll be connecting your console via a RGB-cable and the color encoding will thus be irrelevant (RGB is RGB after all). You should therefore be able to play NTSC-games at the proper resolution and framerate. This is actually what I'm planning on doing with my console. I have several NTSC-games, but I haven't modded my console yet so I can't tell for sure.

P

Yes it can output PAL60. Most first party games gives you the option to choose between PAL50 or PAL60 the first time you boot them and some games like Oot Master Quest even requires PAL60. But I think using RGB still wouldn't output a proper NTSC signal, RGB is not HD.

Quote from: 133MHz on September 29, 2012, 07:44:28 pm
Does the PAL GameCube really output a proper NTSC signal for US/JP games or is it just 4.43 PAL at 60Hz?

Probably just 4.43 PAL60.

untinip

Not that it's relevant to this, but RGB can be used to send an HD-signal - just look at VGA. RGB also has no color encoding; each color (Red, Green and Blue) is sent on a separate line, thus its name - no need to encode anything. As long as the resolution and framerate is that of NTSC, the games would be displayed and run properly. The only thing I haven't been able to figure out yet is if NTSC-games change the resolution and framerate when they're running on a PAL-console, or if they assume that the OS have already set up the display properly. If it's the latter, then one must find a way to change to resolution and framerate before booting the game for it to run properly. I believe Freeloader allows you to do this.

P

That's not what I meant but I now realised that I might be wrong. NTSC, PAL etc might not matter as you said. OK I should quit now. I edited my first post so it won't have too much false info.

Another import problem however is mojibake (garbage characters that shows up when the wrong font encoding is used). I guess it has to do with what BIOS the gamecube has? Testing Japanese games sometimes shows mojibake on some text, but not all text.

untinip

Hmm... Are you sure that's a problem with Gamecube consoles? By simply installing a switch one can play Japanese games on an American console and vice versa, but the BIOS is still the same. I've never heard of problems with mojibake on Gamecubes, bu then again I've never tried it myself.... ???

P

I don't really know. I've only seen it when we tested Japanese games on a Wii with freeloader so I assumed the game used a font in the BIOS. It was not all text, mostly only system messages and such (when saving for example) so I thought it used it's own font for other in-game text.
The reason US/EU game saves doesn't like to coexist on the same memory card is because the font encoding for file names is set when it's formatted. Some games doesn't warn you though.

I can't find much info on the internet about this problem.

untinip

Interesting... Doesn't sound too bad if it's only system messages, though.

I've heard one has to use different memory cards for US and Japanese games even with the switch installed, or it will erase the memory card with the "foreign" contents. Sounds like an encoding issue....

133MHz

I get mojibake with Japanese games on my NTSC-U GameCube. I haven't done the BIOS mod but I suppose that would fix it. Since the only Japanese game I play on it is Nintendo Puzzle Collection, it doesn't really bother me enough to install the BIOS switch. :P