Repro Famicom/NES Games

Started by MarioMania, March 29, 2015, 12:14:51 am

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MarioMania

I watch a Video on YouTube about making Repros, I know there's couple people here that does it, I want to know some stuff like

What PC do you use to hook the Programmer up to?
Like how do you get the CHR info far XX Games Example: Mr Gimmick
How much does the Progammer cost?
How many Chips on the PCB do you need to desolder? 

muckyfingers

Quote from: MarioMania on March 29, 2015, 12:14:51 am
I watch a Video on YouTube about making Repros, I know there's couple people here that does it, I want to know some stuff like

What PC do you use to hook the Programmer up to?
Like how do you get the CHR info far XX Games Example: Mr Gimmick
How much does the Progammer cost?
How many Chips on the PCB do you need to desolder?  


All current programmers use USB on Windows machines, typically XP and up 32 bit and 64 bit.

Famirom (http://1drv.ms/1DwjYnW) will remove the header and split the files for you, as well as tell you what type of board you need to use.

I highly recommend a solid programmer like the TopMax2 ($800), or the SuperPro 610p (china version is around $325 shipped). If you can't afford those, the GQ-4X is about $100 and very versatile as far as budget USB programmers, it will program EPROMs used Famicom/NES reproductions out of the box.

Some games you only need to remove the PRG, the majority of them 2, the CHR and PRG. I recommend buying a decent desoldering gun like this http://www.circuitspecialists.com/csi474a.html
or if you have the money a Hakko FR-300. Many of the chips are soldered on both sides and will take forever to remove with a cheap desoldering pump, or desoldering braid.

jpx72

March 29, 2015, 03:23:14 am #2 Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 03:40:30 am by jpx72
I think the topic is already past all the secrecy and mysticism today, so let me just copy-paste one PM I once sent to a repro enthusiast.
Mods, please feel free to delete this post if you find it too "opensource":

Well the first steps must take you to bootgod's webpage, with all info you need about any cart in existence:
http://bootgod.dyndns.org:7777/
If you have some weird game rom, you need to find out it's requirements, I use Nestopia emulator and it's info page about game you're playing. Usually, what works in Nestopia, works in real hardware too. There are emulators like cah4e3's one, but there's no point in trying to make a real hardware cart with rom that doesn't work in Nestopia but does in that Fceumm from cah4e3.
http://nestopia.sourceforge.net/
http://cah4e3.shedevr.org.ru/fceultra.php
Next I usually use a "rom to prg/chr" splitter to see what chips do I need. Most reliable is Ucon64, it doesn't have any GUI so you need to run it from old trusty command line like this:
ucon64.exe romname.nes --s       (yes, two slashes --)
http://ucon64.sourceforge.net/   (donwload either C++ or minGW version)
it will create three (or two if the game doesn't have chr) files - romname.prg, romname.chr and romname.prm. You can delete the PRM file, and directly burn prg and chr (or just prg).
What rom burner considers, I was very lucky to get my hands on a professional burner from ELNEC. But it's normally very expensive, so talk to some Polish members here to get info on the best WILLEM programmer. They're the cheapest.
Or I can burn you anything (that has 32 pins maximum), if you pay shipping.
The hardest part is desoldering original roms, but if you have a hot air gun with thin nozzle, it's very very easy, I also can help you with this if needed.
Next step is to understand the difference between different pinouts of original rom chips and normal eproms.
This two files make your life easier:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20ROM%20Pinouts.txt
http://nesdev.com/EPROM%20Pinouts.txt
Also, not all games have this weird "NES" pinout, for example konami or jaleco companies use rom chips with normal eprom pinout (it's called "jedec pinout").
I usually don't trust this types of "manuals" for rewiring chips:
http://nesdev.com/NES%20EPROM%20Conversions.txt
So after desoldering, I scan the board and trace the pins myself to find the best and easiest way to rewire the cart. I do cut lines on board, not many people like this, they usually "lift" pins on eprom.
I do it like this, I know it's tedious work, but my succes rate is 100%:
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QB-zMDNGqaw/TXlB1KAShII/AAAAAAAAD6I/Gzce4pj7rBk/w626-h599-no/tt.bmp
Most usefull site is nesdev wiki with all the needed pinouts of mapper chips and so on, for example MMC3:
http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/MMC3_pinout

First buy a donor, but be aware that many games come in "globtops" (the ugly black bird-shit like drop on the PCB instead of classic chips), so check the versions (small yellow numbers from 1 to X on bootgods page) if there are globtop versions of the cart, and if so, be prepared to buy more than one donor.

Check the mapper, check the size of the game on the donor - buy donors with the same size like your dream rom! If you buy a donor that is for example 256kb game, and your rom has 512kb, you will probably need to do more rewiring. The adress lines (A1-AXX on the eprom pinout) are fewer when the size of the chip is smaller. On smaller games, the high adress lines aren't even connected so you would have to wire them by yourself.

Enough?  :)
All question please post on this topic, no PMs.

number47

Jep. Thats right from my inbox :D

If you feel lucky and like to gamble then you can also order chinese LPT port Willem from Aliexpress for $30. Like I said it's a gamble, because some of them tend to corrupt EEPROM and their supported EEPROM list is short. Plus you'll need a PC with LPT port and 32bit Windows.

Chinese willem

A fairly good choice is GQ-4X.

jpx72

Very cheap way to programm an Eprom is to use some old motherboard that has bios on an eprom like 27c020 or 27c040.
You only need the Uniflash http://www.rainbow-software.org/uniflash/ that can "flash" anything (not just bios) to the chip.
It's a bit tricky, cause you need to remove and reinsert the chips under full PC power, but you can do some adapter and cut off +5V from the chip with a simple switch just before removing/reinserting.

P

Wouldn't it be easier to use EEPROMs than EPROMs nowdays? You can erase them without the need of a UV eraser in case they get corrupted or you want to upgrade/change the ROM. Not that I have used it myself though.

muckyfingers

Quote from: P on March 29, 2015, 07:24:41 am
Wouldn't it be easier to use EEPROMs than EPROMs nowdays? You can erase them without the need of a UV eraser in case they get corrupted or you want to upgrade/change the ROM. Not that I have used it myself though.


For 99% of the Famicom/NES repros EEPROM's would be a much better and slightly more expensive solution. There is no dip EEPROM replacement for a 27C801 though.

jpx72

March 29, 2015, 09:21:21 am #7 Last Edit: March 29, 2015, 09:33:00 am by jpx72
Also worth mentioning: to save donors, it is possible to use bigger eproms to have two (or more) games on one cart. Just install a small switch for connecting the highest adress pin to either GND or +5V to split the eprom in half. Or there are even more sophisticated solutions, like using the Reset switch for selecting the game.

Fun way to have multiple games on one cart is using ready made compilers like the Forbidden four: http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/Forbidden_Four

MarioMania

I'm really cheap, What kinds of PC can I find to write to the EPROM's?

I know alot of NES Games are not cheap, For my own use is it still a no no to burn Expensive Games like DuckTales 2?


muckyfingers

No one really cares if you make a Super Mario Bros or a Duck Tales 2. The problem arises when people try to sell them as originals.

MarioMania

Yeah I know, Thanks for the info guys

Like I said I'm real cheap does any old PC's have EPROM slot to write games to?

jpx72

Its not a question of exact motherboard type, but your luck to find such among one of those old mobos in your attic. At least I have maybe 10 old mobos from 386 to some AMD duron cpu type.. and only one or two have this type bios.

MarioMania

Another thing, Does it matter what PCB Class you have like

NES-UN-ROM-07 from a game I get cheap

DuckTales 2 have NES-UNROM-10 will it matter with the number at the end?

muckyfingers

Look them up on bootgod and you'll be able go tell if the donor will work for which ever game you are trying to make.

MarioMania

I have bootgod bookedmarked

I don't have anything yet, I'm cheap..So I have to get lucky